Ex St Kilda recruiter Chris Toce is going to fix everything?

[brikzone]

Mathew Clarke was poached by West coast at the start of the year. He was massive in us getting those 3 flags because he made good picks.
Chris Toce was St Kilda's recruiter and all we hear about is them wasting picks and missing out on superstars.
But yes lets trade all our good players for draft picks and let this Toce guy take control of our list.
I cant see anything that could go wrong here

 

[tigs2010]

Francis Jackson picked the stars of our flags.

Matty Clarke brought you stars such as RCD, Sonsie, Noodle arms Dow, CCJ and big bad bustling Sammy Ryan.

Outside of Balta and Bolton (arguable who made this pick when we changed recruiters just before the draft happened)

Hopefully we end up with something decent from 2021 when he had 5 in top 30.

As for Toce he was only in charge for 2 drafts. Don't think he can be blamed for 130 years of failure.

 

[brikzone]

Francis Jackson picked the stars of our flags.

Matty Clarke brought you stars such as RCD, Sonsie, Noodle arms Dow, CCJ and big bad bustling Sammy Ryan.

Outside of Balta and Bolton (arguable who made this pick when we changed recruiters just before the draft happened)

Hopefully we end up with something decent from 2021 when he had 5 in top 30.

As for Toce he was only in charge for 2 drafts. Don't think he can be blamed for 130 years of failure.

either way i still feel like people just assume we are going get stars with the picks we get for trading our actual star players. could easily all be duds and we are screwed.

 

[RockJobster0312]

I think the real question should be do we have the coaching set up to develop these players to the level needed?

We all seem to blame or praise head recruiters as if they seem to be the only one who has an impact on a players career.

 

[copthat]

Mathew Clarke was poached by West coast at the start of the year. He was massive in us getting those 3 flags because he made good picks.
Chris Toce was St Kilda's recruiter and all we hear about is them wasting picks and missing out on superstars.
But yes lets trade all our good players for draft picks and let this Toce guy take control of our list.
I cant see anything that could go wrong here

Go ahead and name all the stars that Clarke selected for our dynasty.

 

[Groupie_]

chris toke on draft night

 

[brikzone]

Go ahead and name all the stars that Clarke selected for our dynasty.

okay maybe it was the guy before him , either way what im saying is that Chris Tote is no saviour.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

Choosing the first pick on Draft night...

 

[tigs2010]

either way i still feel like people just assume we are going get stars with the picks we get for trading our actual star players. could easily all be duds and we are screwed.

Of course. But if we do nothing we are ****ed anyway.

If we've picked a dud recruiter we are ****ed for a long time regardless if we trade players or not.

FWIW every one of Toce picks from last year has played this year and Philippou from year before looking promising if he builds a tank. The later picks hard to say, draft looks ordinary and don't know enough about them.

Someone said we still have Francis around to help him too.

I'd have zero faith in Clarke not picking at least 50% spuds with the picks if we traded our stars.

 

[brikzone]

i just want to wake up in 2030

 

[Groupie_]

this might be the biggest dud draft since 1989 when we took richard lounder

none of the draftees fill me with confidence, I think the grass roots is suffering from the stand rule / over umpiring/ cte era

 

[tigs2010]

this might be the biggest dud draft since 1989 when we took richard lounder

none of the draftees fill me with confidence, I think the grass roots is suffering from the stand rule / over umpiring/ cte era

SOS draft picks been suffering from cte for decades

 

[JackNah_8]

Francis Jackson picked the stars of our flags.

Matty Clarke brought you stars such as RCD, Sonsie, Noodle arms Dow, CCJ and big bad bustling Sammy Ryan.

Outside of Balta and Bolton (arguable who made this pick when we changed recruiters just before the draft happened)

Hopefully we end up with something decent from 2021 when he had 5 in top 30.

As for Toce he was only in charge for 2 drafts. Don't think he can be blamed for 130 years of failure.

Plus Ross lyon would've had a massive say in recruitment

 

[gunnagunnagunna]

Coaching pannel needs to be on the same page first off. Game plans looks like 3 jigsaw puzzles rolled into one. Don't care how good our recruitment group are, if we don't have a stable game plan and any sense of direction then it's all a waste of time.

On SM-S906E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[tigs2010]

Plus Ross lyon would've had a massive say in recruitment

And SOS

 

[brikzone]

this might be the biggest dud draft since 1989 when we took richard lounder

none of the draftees fill me with confidence, I think the grass roots is suffering from the stand rule / over umpiring/ cte era

"Unlike the 2023 crop where there was a clear No. 1 prospect, many clubs believe the 2024 AFL draft class is the most even yet deep they’ve seen in years.

It’s a draft most clubs would be hesitant to trade out of, considering the depth of talent — which includes father-son and academy prospects — across the first 35 to 40 picks."

Hopefully that actually turns out to be true, shame there is no harley reid this year when we have the 1st pick ofcourse..
but i guess if we do end up with a handful of top 30 picks, you would think we should get something. surely they gotta hit on 1....

 

[Groupie_]

"Unlike the 2023 crop where there was a clear No. 1 prospect, many clubs believe the 2024 AFL draft class is the most even yet deep they’ve seen in years.

fake news from the cfl and their media

I dont trust em

 

[brikzone]

fake news from the cfl and their media

I dont trust em

**** you are right. we gone.

 

[RockJobster0312]

Think our mods need to include an induction for new posters that give a special guide to Groupie and dungeon related discussion.

 

[JackNah_8]

And SOS

Forgot about him lol

 

[RobsJourney]

I think we need someone to dissect the Matthew Clarke era. He became lead recruiter from 2017 onward.

First, look at all the players he drafted that were and are "duds", and then look at those drafts and see who else we could've gotten at those selections, and wonder at how they messed up.

Keep in mind, some of the current duds might change, for example Sonsie. He is a player who I don't personally think will make it, but he may come good. Remember we thought we were holding many duds post 2016 and look how many of them turned into beloved heroes. You just never really know until they have hit their prime age.

I'll have a look at a couple of seasons...

Also keep in mind there is so much hindsight involved, many clubs "miss" in hindsight, but we just seem to have a LOT of misses don't we?


2017

17 - Jack Higgins - hard to say given the brain surgery, I'd say he is 50/50 as he was good and exciting for a period and was clearly dominant at under 18 level, but we missed out on MANY here. To name a few, Oscar Allen 21, Noah Balta 25 (who we thankfully still drafted), Brent Daniels 27, Sam Taylor 28, Tom De Koning 30, Bayley Fritsch 31.

20 - Callum Coleman Jones - Massive miss when you still have ALL of the above players still on the board.

25 - Noah Balta

21

Noah Balta

Age

24

Ht

194cm

Wt

105kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.8

2star

K

6.7

3star

HB

3.1

3star

M

2.7

3star

T

1.9

4star

MG

236.3

4star

D

12.0

3star

K

6.7

3star

HB

5.3

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

0.3

1star

MG

233.0

4star

D

7.0

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

2.0

2star

M

1.8

2star

T

1.8

4star

MG

217.4

4star

- Definitely a win, but you wonder why Coleman Jones went before him.

34 - Patrick Naish Father/Son - A fail, but just unfortunate, we got him way later than we thought we'd have to as he was touted as top 10-20, so we thought we got a huge steal.

63 - Ben Miller - Probably a miss when you still have Dylan Moore 67 on the board, but it's a late pick so I say a win.


2018

20 - Riley Collier Dawkins - Big miss, still had Bobby Hill 24 on the board, James Rowbottom 25, Tom Sparrow 27.

43 - Jack Ross

5

Jack Ross

Age

24

Ht

187cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.2

4star

K

7.8

3star

HB

8.4

5star

M

2.2

2star

T

2.7

4star

CL

3.0

4star

D

13.7

3star

K

6.7

3star

HB

7.0

4star

M

1.7

2star

T

1.7

3star

CL

2.0

4star

D

17.8

5star

K

8.0

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.6

3star

T

2.8

5star

CL

3.0

5star

- I'd say a win, he is a handy player especially at such a late pick, and not much left in this draft after him

58 and 62 - Fraser Turner and Luke English - Fails, despite the fact only Toby Bedford 75 (I like him) catches my attention for anyone drafted later. Fails because why must we ALWAYS draft these flanker types?


2019

21 - Thomson Dow - Fail, he is mighty average, could have had Jeremy Sharp 27, Harrison Jones 30 (key forward that has potential), Charlie Comben 31, Trent Rivers 32, Nick Bryan 38, Chad Warner 39,

The rest is Cumberland, Martyn, Ralphsmith, Nyuon, but there isn't much after them outside of Jake Ricciardi from GWS Michael Frederick from Fremantle, the latter of who came after ALL of our remaining selections.


Overall, I'm already getting the picture that it's a hard gig, but, we could still do much better, and we really have to stop with these flanker types. Dow over all the others listed is pretty bad.

 

[Danog]

I'll say it again for everyone saying he's a dud recruiter. Toce took over as head of recruiting at Shit Kilda in 2022.

2022 AFL draft - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

He picked Phillipou at 10. Please show me who after that is distinctively better? Hollands, Michalanney, and Weddle are all looking very similar in terms of quality. It wasn't a great draft overall.

2nd pick was 31. The only players I've seen with ANY promise after that are McMullin, Dowling, and Richards.


Now let's look at 2023.

2023 AFL draft - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

First pick was 18, and he took Darcy Wilson who looks like a very promising winger. Who else could he have picked between then and St Kilda's next pick? Nobody. Big tick. Collard looks like a bust already because of shit character, but you couldn't deny the talent. After Collard (31) though, who is looking even remotely decent? Like 4 non-academy players? Logan Morris, Joel Freijah, Calsher Dear, Lawson Humphries.

He really hasn't had much to work with, and has nailed his early picks.

If we think he had a larger role in 2021 in preparation for stepping up in 2022, then that trend continues. Wanganeen-Milera is a jet. Mitch Owens looks very promising; high ceiling. Windhager looks solid too.

He really hasn't done that bad.

 

[copthat]

okay maybe it was the guy before him , either way what im saying is that Chris Tote is no saviour.

Any recruiting related OP is significantly weakened by not knowing who the recruiters are during specific periods.

 

[Tigerbob]

I'll say it again for everyone saying he's a dud recruiter. Toce took over as head of recruiting at Shit Kilda in 2022.

2022 AFL draft - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

He picked Phillipou at 10. Please show me who after that is distinctively better? Hollands, Michalanney, and Weddle are all looking very similar in terms of quality. It wasn't a great draft overall.

2nd pick was 31. The only players I've seen with ANY promise after that are McMullin, Dowling, and Richards.


Now let's look at 2023.

2023 AFL draft - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

First pick was 18, and he took Darcy Wilson who looks like a very promising winger. Who else could he have picked between then and St Kilda's next pick? Nobody. Big tick. Collard looks like a bust already because of shit character, but you couldn't deny the talent. After Collard (31) though, who is looking even remotely decent? Like 4 non-academy players? Logan Morris, Joel Freijah, Calsher Dear, Lawson Humphries.

He really hasn't had much to work with, and has nailed his early picks.

If we think he had a larger role in 2021 in preparation for stepping up in 2022, then that trend continues. Wanganeen-Milera is a jet. Mitch Owens looks very promising; high ceiling. Windhager looks solid too.

He really hasn't done that bad.

 

[Danog]

The more I looked at the drafts, the more I was impressed with GWS's recruiting. Some real gems picked out over the years.