Coach Fages and the coaching group

[Mighty Lions]

To be honest even if we’d won I’d still be a bit worried about how Collingwood’s system seemed to dominate ours. I think we’re a more talented team on balance than Collingwood but didn’t have the answers for them tactically on the day.

Agree.....although we did have them easily covered in the 2 previous times we played this year....I'm not sure you can put that down to lack of tactical strategies from the coach's......could be a number of things that contributed to that.

All I am saying is that (in my opinion) our coach's are first class and making any un-forced changes would be an over-reaction....proof to that is if they were not any good, 2 of them would not have been head hunted to rival clubs in the last 2 seasons.

 

[Squizz89]

It’s our mate again, but if he’s right this time I assume this means more than Jed is on his way out.

 

[Nunez]

It’s our mate again, but if he’s right this time I assume this means more than Jed is on his way out.

Why even give this clown air time?

 

[Squizz89]

Why even give this clown air time?

Might be a good one for Mighty Lions to debunk?

 

[Nunez]

Might be a good one for Mighty Lions to debunk?

Tbh I put more stock in the take Tom Browne account than Gossange.

 

[JasRulz63]

It’s our mate again, but if he’s right this time I assume this means more than Jed is on his way out.

Someone's feeling a bit defensive.

 

[Mr Ripper]

Someone's feeling a bit defensive.

Also looks like DD was his source for his "Robertson's leaving the Lions" tweet which he must have been told about AFTER Dev had re-signed. Expert trolling by DD.

 

[briztoon]

Gossage has become a parody out west. Basically, what ever he says, the opposite happens.

All you have to do is look at the pinned tweet on his page to see that.

 

[briztoon]

 

[Gadzorks]

What we could we offer to Hodge to get him as a game day assistant coach?

Yes, he's extremely well paid and comfortable in the media, but we know he loves the lions and loves teaching.

Surely we can put on our creative hats and find a novel pitch to win him over.

He has the clout to request media for games on the day the lions aren't playing plus midweek work.

Can we all write actual, old fashioned letters to him asking for his help? Think country roads - sometimes the simplest thing catches the imagination and sticks.

I really rate Hodge as a game day coach.

 

[Grasshopper17]

My only gripe is we tend to want to shut down quarters, rather than look to finish strong.

2-3 minutes is a lot of time in footy and teams can score quickly in this era. To put men behind the ball invites pressure, because even if the numbers at the stoppage are even, if we surge the ball forward, we are out numbered and they can get on a run out of halfback.

I'd rather put Rayner in the middle, instead of halfback and get more players to the stoppage if you want to grind the quarter down. Not behind the ball like we have done a lot this year.

Other than that, I didn't see many other issues today. We clearly wanted to limit JDG, we did. We clearly wanted to back in our kick game, we did. We didn't abuse the middle of the corridor but showed willingness at times to go if it was available. We didn't default to just kicks down the long and if we were forced to, we switched it up quickly afterwards to not do it ad nauseam.

Truthfully ever since Ashcroft went down this year, our midfield performances plummeted. Felt like we were 1 midfielder short again today and while I love McCluggage and thought he got himself into the game, I'd prefer him on the wing and Ashcroft in the middle. It's so big for our structure.

I love Fages, while I had some doubts in the middle portion of the year, I think he overall had a great season. My main issue is his age, he isn't going to be here for the next 6 years of this decade. I hope a succession plan is being or will be dicussed. He should never be moved on though, only when he is ready to retire.

I agree with 100% of this except what I've bolded above. Seems like you and I were watching 2 different games. From the midway point of the 2nd quarter I don't remember us using, or trying to use, the corridor, once. It was all long down the line from that point on. So frustrating.

Fages also touched on this after the game in his press conference, altho his reasons and my reasons are quite different. I'll be tactful here and say I don't think it was anything to do with "lacking dare".

 

[Grasshopper17]

Fagan said as much in his presser. We were exposed on the wings.

If we are going to aggressively recruit to continue to improve our list, rather than looking at additional backline or forward players, we need some outside and two way runners. We have a solid pool of backline players with Andrews, Lester, Payne, McKenna, Wilmot, Coleman, Gardiner, Prior and Joyce available at the selection table. Similarly, in attack we have Daniher, Hipwood, Rayner, Cameron, McCarthy, Bailey, Ah Chee to call upon, with Fullerton and Gunston providing extra depth.

I would really hope that we can recruit at least one outside runner that we can play on the wing, because that is where we have our greatest need. Especially because as his career progresses, we should expect McCluggage to transition into a full time midfielder, supporting Neale and Dunkley. We have Fletcher, who is tailor made for that role and giving Tunstill an opportunity on the wing next year is a priority. Berry can play on a wing, but as we saw today, he really has levelled off and I can’t see him improving. Berry is poor by foot and at times his decision making is questionable. He was towelled up today. We desperately need a player who has been leg speed and finishing skills to hold down a wing. We have tried Harry Sharp, but he is not really at the required standard. We need a genuine outside runner or two to round out and strengthen our list, which will help us to take the next step.

Agree with this rationale. Think you're going a bit early on Sharp... I hope you are anyway. Yes, he's had 3 seasons with us now but you have to remember the first of those he was in year 12 and didn't train with us full time.

Thought the games be played in the middle of the year he showed a lot of promise and worth persisting with, once he got up to speed with the change between VFL and AFL. There will be a squeeze when Ashcroft is fit but I'd like to see him challenge certainly Zorko and perhaps even Berry for their spots next year.

I didn't have him in my Grand Final 23 but in hindsight I think we could have used his ability to cover ground and hold width, given the weather. Just not sure who he'd have replaced.

 

[Grasshopper17]

I’ve said it before, but I believe we’re still not fit enough, or have enough gut runners, two way runners and speed in the team.

Wouldn’t be putting a lot of emphasis on time trials next year.

McCluggage is a very, very good time trial runner. He’s a pretty poor two way runner and looks gassed early-ish in games.

And the same applies to all our half forwards, except Zorko.

Would rather see some brutal beep test sessions.

Think I'm just going to copy and paste this into the review thread and that will be my summary of the Grand Final

No way known we should have been made to look old and slow like we were, when we literally brought our home conditions to Melbourne for both the parade and game day.

 

[Grasshopper17]

I would be chasing Don Pyke very hard. Since he arrived at the Swans they have completely changed the way they have played and make much better use of their talent now than they had done for many years under Horse.

Cox has been anointed as the heir apparent and there could be a chance to poach Pyke.

Of our other assistant coaches I would punt Hudson who I don't think did a great job in the reserves and Bruce who I have never really rated and hopefully he was only signed for two years.

You can't change them all in one year. Too much instability.

The VFL team was hamstrung by our insistence on playing a squillion ruckmen in the same team. If it were a standalone team that would not have happened. It happened because we wanted guys like Fort and Fullarton to be ready for a senior call up, while also wanting to develop Smith and Lane. So you can't sheet all that back to the VFL head coach.

Happy for Bruce to stay on. Yes, the way our midfield defends at stoppages is concerning at times but it was also a concern when Dale Tapping was here. So again I don't think all this can be sheeted back to the coach.

Also wonder if now is an ideal time to transition away from "line coaches" into "phase coaches". Murray Davis would be an ideal "team defence" coach, Cameron Bruce an ideal "ball in dispute" coach with Jack Gunston an ideal "ball movement" coach.

 

[Grasshopper17]

Reminder that the Gabba is only 3 metres narrower and 5 metres shorter than the MCG.

That's at the extremities. Heard Lynchy last week discussing the fact that the flanks and pockets are quite a bit wider than the Gabba. I don't have any measurements but I guess it's possible?

 

[Grasshopper17]

If the club was getting rid of assistant coaches, we'd know by now. There's a rule where clubs need to tell their assistants who's being let go and assistants need to tell the club if they are departing.

The date was crossed back in late August/early September.

If more coaches were leaving, we'd know over the past couple of days - hence the announcement with Jed.

This seems to be contrary to what happened with Jed... listening to Danny Daly this week it all seemed very sudden, and the club was blindsided by his decision.

 

[Grasshopper17]

Yeah. The capacity to outsmart your opponent without actually having to engage physically.

I've read it many times. Just because it's so soothing to read incisive analytical thought about chaotic situations.

But we digress. I wonder if any AFL coaches are disciples . Should be compulsory reading.

Never create opportunities for the enemy.

I think the line is "if your opponent is making a mistake, don't interrupt him".

I quite like that. Reminds me of the one about the Englishman, the Scotsman and the Irishman facing the guillotine during the French revolution...

"Wait! I t'ink I be seeing your problem."

 

[DERRINALPHIL]

I spoke to the club ptrs st Crown after the loss and he said that what Fages said to the players was not exactly what he said to the press

 

[3KZ is Football]

I spoke to the club ptrs st Crown after the loss and he said that what Fages said to the players was not exactly what he said to the press

What did he say? Was it something along the lines of …

“Look Cam, I don’t want you to take this the wrong way, but it would have really helped if you had a disposal in the last quarter. I know you had two disposals in the previous quarter, but really, two disposals in a half wasn’t really that helpful and it probably really cost us in terms of the result.
What was that mate? You are upset with me for raising your performance in front of the group? You are right, I’m sorry Cam, my bad. Yes I agree footy is hard and you did have a lot on your plate organising the podcast. I take it back. You were fine buddy, just fine. In fact, you were great. Boys, Cam was great!
Are you ok now? I really am sorry. I know you find conversations about your performance triggering. As I said, my bad.
Are we good?”

Modern coaching martinson McIvor Grasshopper17 DERRINALPHIL
M Malice - fit to purpose or too indulgent.

 

[Nunez]

What did he say? Was it something along the lines of …

“Look Cam, I don’t want you to take this the wrong way, but it would have really helped if you had a disposal in the last quarter. I know you had two disposals in the previous quarter, but really, two disposals in a half wasn’t really that helpful and it probably really cost us in terms of the result.
What was that mate? You are upset with me for raising your performance in front of the group? You are right, I’m sorry Cam, my bad. Yes I agree footy is hard and you did have a lot on your plate organising the podcast. I take it back. You were fine buddy, just fine. In fact, you were great. Boys, Cam was great!
Are you ok now? I really am sorry. I know you find conversations about your performance triggering. As I said, my bad. Are we good?”

Modern coaching martinson McIvor Grasshopper17 DERRINALPHIL
M Malice - fit to purpose or too indulgent.

I think you've entered parody of a parody territory my friend.

 

[3KZ is Football]

I think you've entered parody of a parody territory my friend.

I know. It’s kind of fun. It’s like David Williamson’s ‘The Club’, but in reverse.

 

[Section 5]

What did he say? Was it something along the lines of …

“Look Cam, I don’t want you to take this the wrong way, but it would have really helped if you had a disposal in the last quarter. I know you had two disposals in the previous quarter, but really, two disposals in a half wasn’t really that helpful and it probably really cost us in terms of the result.
What was that mate? You are upset with me for raising your performance in front of the group? You are right, I’m sorry Cam, my bad. Yes I agree footy is hard and you did have a lot on your plate organising the podcast. I take it back. You were fine buddy, just fine. In fact, you were great. Boys, Cam was great!
Are you ok now? I really am sorry. I know you find conversations about your performance triggering. As I said, my bad.
Are we good?”

Modern coaching martinson McIvor Grasshopper17 DERRINALPHIL
M Malice - fit to purpose or too indulgent.

So, you just want the coach to blame 1 player for our 4-point GF loss. As long as it is not Lester of course.

Kiddy was runner up in the Norm Smith. you may as well have a go at him too.
Kiddy only had 1 disposal in the 3rd and that kick was smothered. Then only 3 in the last all kicks.

Every player would have tried to give their all on the day.
After all they just spent 6 months of hard work getting to this position.
Sometimes it just does not work out as planned with us complex humans.

It is a long and draining season to get to the GF and the Pies handled the day better than the Lions.

 

[Warwick]

If we wanted to start blaming individuals you would begin by looking at those responsible for marking B. Hill.

But that's not how a team works.

 

[KissKiss]

If we wanted to start blaming individuals you would begin by looking at those responsible for marking B. Hill.

But that's not how a team works.

Even half the time when a forward kicks a goal its not the defenders fault. A turn over in the forward line can lead to a mismatch that then causes players to be running off their man to shut it down all down the field leaving to a defender getting caught out in a mismatch or trying to run back to cover the goal kicker who wasnt their responsibility in the first place.

 

[martinson]

So, you just want the coach to blame 1 player for our 4-point GF loss. As long as it is not Lester of course.

Kiddy was runner up in the Norm Smith. you may as well have a go at him too.
Kiddy only had 1 disposal in the 3rd and that kick was smothered. Then only 3 in the last all kicks.

Every player would have tried to give their all on the day.
After all they just spent 6 months of hard work getting to this position.
Sometimes it just does not work out as planned with us complex humans.

It is a long and draining season to get to the GF and the Pies handled the day better than the Lions.

Your last sentence is the key.

We tried our absolute best but some players made mistakes, as you'd expect ,and our tactics misfired a little in the context of how the game played out.

We just didn't have the same energy we've had when we're on song but we toughed it out and almost pinched it.