Coach Fages and the coaching group

[lioninthesand]

Are we consistently getting out coached? This is a pretty big call for a team that generally had games won in the 3rd quarter.

Unless you're in the know with assistant coaches, I think it's impossible to make statements of us needing high level footy credentials...do none of our assistants have this?

Yeah fair call - I perhaps should have said ‘there have been times where I’ve felt we haven’t responded effectively, tactically, and at times our preparedness and system has come up short, especially againts the best coaching panels in the comp’.

Don’t think much else of what I’ve said is that outrageous. I don’t have intel as to the individual performance of coaches.

The best coaching systems in the league generally turn out senior coaches as the footy programs progress, I think that is an indicator our talent is not considered premium. Dale Tapping was in that path and was head hunted. I’m content as an observer to say that indicates we may not have the best talent in our ranks.

I also think over 7-8 years it’s incredible that we haven’t recruited a senior figure or a coach with experience, especially being so close.

I’m not for a second saying ‘our coaches are shit’ or ‘sack them all’ - I’m simply saying after 5 years at the top, and a portion of our coaches out of contract, I’d like us to make bringing in some senior coaching figures or investing in our support around fages a priority.

These conversations acknowledge how well everyone’s done, on a limited budget too (by Fagans own admission) but we are scratching around for that extra 2-3% going forward, I think the coaches box is area where there can be growth.

 

[StevoJenkins]

I would be chasing Don Pyke very hard. Since he arrived at the Swans they have completely changed the way they have played and make much better use of their talent now than they had done for many years under Horse.

Cox has been anointed as the heir apparent and there could be a chance to poach Pyke.

Of our other assistant coaches I would punt Hudson who I don't think did a great job in the reserves and Bruce who I have never really rated and hopefully he was only signed for two years.

If the club was getting rid of assistant coaches, we'd know by now. There's a rule where clubs need to tell their assistants who's being let go and assistants need to tell the club if they are departing.

The date was crossed back in late August/early September.

If more coaches were leaving, we'd know over the past couple of days - hence the announcement with Jed.

Don Pyke is also off the table. Has no interest in coming up here. Would be very surprised if it happened.

 

[lioninthesand]

No. If we were consistently outcoached we would not be playing finals...it's that simple. People making posts like that should give Big Footy a rest for a few weeks to calm their emotions rather than coming out with disrespectful comments like that.

Seriously mate… settle down, we know you claim to have mates there, but get a grip - it’s not that personal, it’s a forum.

It’s a thread about our coaching group, I didn’t abuse or savage anyone and qualified my post with some opinion around why I think it’s time to reinvest.

 

[lioninthesand]

Amazing how some see the players as blameless or sheer fluke and out everything on the coaches

It’s a coaching discussion thread

 

[Quigley]

If the club was getting rid of assistant coaches, we'd know by now. There's a rule where clubs need to tell their assistants who's being let go and assistants need to tell the club if they are departing.

The date was crossed back in late August/early September.

If more coaches were leaving, we'd know over the past couple of days - hence the announcement with Jed.

Don Pyke is also off the table. Has no interest in coming up here. Would be very surprised if it happened.

This is the time when announcements get made. The decisions may well have been made earlier but nothing made public until about this time especially when the team is still going. Anyway my comment was what I would do not necessarily what I expect the club to do.

On Pyke I accept it was always a long shot which is probably the case for most high profile assistants. The other guy who is not coming here who I would love is Choco. Widely acknowledged as one of the best teachers in the game.

 

[Nathan Barley]

It’s a coaching discussion thread

Yeah and?

 

[Squizz89]

FWIW, Daly said in that interview this morning that he and Fages were only advised on Monday about Jed leaving.

Whether or not that’s true, who knows, but just thought it was interesting, as I too thought those decisions had to be advised prior to this late in the piece.

 

[lioninthesand]

FWIW, Daly said in that interview this morning that he and Fages were only advised on Monday about Jed leaving.

Whether or not that’s true or not, who knows, but just thought it was interesting, as I too thought those decisions had to be advised prior to this late in the piece.

Any thing about plans with coaches?

 

[Squizz89]

Any thing about plans with coaches?

Only that we should have a replacement found pretty quickly and it sounds like it’ll be an external appointment. We assume we’ll be pretty attractive to potential candidates given our last few years.

 

[McIvor]

This is the time when announcements get made. The decisions may well have been made earlier but nothing made public until about this time especially when the team is still going. Anyway my comment was what I would do not necessarily what I expect the club to do.

On Pyke I accept it was always a long shot which is probably the case for most high profile assistants. The other guy who is not coming here who I would love is Choco. Widely acknowledged as one of the best teachers in the game.

Not saying it should’ve happened end of last season, but Adam Kingsley has been one that I’d hoped succeeded Fagan purely from the way he conducts himself, his work at Richmond and overall apprenticeship.

Obviously the Giants identified him last year and got there man but I’ve always admired him and it’s obviously unlikely we’ll ever get him. Like you, I’ve always liked Pyke but as others have said it’s been doing the rounds that he’ll succeed Nisbett as CEO of WCE and who could blame him. Not that anyone has mentioned him and I only say this from miles away but Yze at Tigers I don’t rate for whatever reason.

 

[buttermuffs]

our list is in peak condition for a premiership chase and I reckon anyone of the AFL coaches would have got us to finals this year.

My biggest problem with the coaching is the system falls apart too easily if we are outplayed on the inside. No plan b besides down the wings or hack kicks. That’s a coaching issue.

I think we do have a plan b which is to slow the game down and pick apart the opposition with precision kicking. However, when you come up against a quality outfit like Collingwood they really covered the ground well and shut down those options. Carlton did it great in the first quarter of the Preliminary as well. Any team that gets smothered defensively ends up kicking it down the line if they don’t turn it over trying something with more risk.

Unfortunately the best way to beat out Collingwood was always going to involved winning the contested and clearance game since that wasn’t their strong suit. Any plan b of ours would have always played into something they did stronger than stoppages.

 

[brizrider]

Reminder that the Gabba is only 3 metres narrower and 5 metres shorter than the MCG.

that's an extra 1000 square metres

 

[T Rick]

FWIW, Daly said in that interview this morning that he and Fages were only advised on Monday about Jed leaving.

Whether or not that’s true or not, who knows, but just thought it was interesting, as I too thought those decisions had to be advised prior to this late in the piece.

I’m sure they would have known that Jed was in the running for a job with Clarko at North. Clarko would more than likely have sounded out Fages as well. Maybe North didn’t formalise the offer until after our season finished.

 

[brizrider]

FWIW, Daly said in that interview this morning that he and Fages were only advised on Monday about Jed leaving.

Whether or not that’s true or not, who knows, but just thought it was interesting, as I too thought those decisions had to be advised prior to this late in the piece.

I think the clubs have until a certain date like end of October maybe to advise assistants if they have a job for following year. Don't think it goes the other way

 

[twhowler]

Big appointment looming.

Surely we can attract a good candidate? Get your hands on a good backline but turn it in to a premiership one. Couldn’t get a better item on your cv to be the next afl coach.

With all due respect to the ex lions and low profile coaches we have, who clearly do a very good job, we need someone with new gameplan ideas and intellectual property to give us the best chance of taking the next step

 

[McIvor]

Big appointment looming.

Surely we can attract a good candidate? Get your hands on a good backline but turn it in to a premiership one. Couldn’t get a better item on your cv to be the next afl coach.

With all due respect to the ex lions and low profile coaches we have, who clearly do a very good job, we need someone with new gameplan ideas and intellectual property to give us the best chance of taking the next step

Someone like Blake Caracella perhaps?

 

[Mighty Lions]

Seriously mate… settle down, we know you claim to have mates there, but get a grip - it’s not that personal, it’s a forum.

It’s a thread about our coaching group, I didn’t abuse or savage anyone and qualified my post with some opinion around why I think it’s time to reinvest.

Seriously mate, please settle down.

The thing with a forum is that it allows people to respond to others peoples comments...which i did just that to yours.....but please, get a grip.

Question: If we had won the game by 4 points (which we could have easily done should a decision or 2 go our way or the bounce of the ball favour us at a critical time or 2 in the red zone of the 4th quarter) would you be saying the same about our coaching? I dont understand people saying we need better coaching when we came so close to taking it out. Please let me know your thoughts as I would like to understand better bearing in mind we lost the GF by a kick.

The devastation by all players/coach's/admin/family after the game in the rooms was heartbreaking. They all poured out raw emotions that showed how hard it hit them and how deflated everyone was after such a year of extreme effort. It's a private moment for all to share with eachother so I am pleased the media left them alone to console eachother but there was not a dry eye in the room. To come so close but come away without the prize, devestating.

 

[BRAB]

Seriously mate, please settle down.

The thing with a forum is that it allows people to respond to others peoples comments...which i did just that to yours.....but please, get a grip.

Question: If we had won the game by 4 points (which we could have easily done should a decision or 2 go our way or the bounce of the ball favour us at a critical time or 2 in the red zone of the 4th quarter) would you be saying the same about our coaching? I dont understand people saying we need better coaching when we came so close to taking it out. Please let me know your thoughts as I would like to understand better bearing in mind we lost the GF by a kick.

The devastation by all players/coach's/admin/family after the game in the rooms was heartbreaking. They all poured out raw emotions that showed how hard it hit them and how deflated everyone was after such a year of extreme effort. It's a private moment for all to share with eachother so I am pleased the media left them alone to console eachother but there was not a dry eye in the room. To come so close but come away without the prize, devestating.

To be honest even if we’d won I’d still be a bit worried about how Collingwood’s system seemed to dominate ours. I think we’re a more talented team on balance than Collingwood but didn’t have the answers for them tactically on the day.

 

[Lets Roar like '44]

To be honest even if we’d won I’d still be a bit worried about how Collingwood’s system seemed to dominate ours. I think we’re a more talented team on balance than Collingwood but didn’t have the answers for them tactically on the day.

Oh dear. Well all the best to you.

 

[BRAB]

Oh dear. Well all the best to you.

Thanks for that riveting contribution to the discussion mate.

 

[HereIGoAgain]

Posters getting told to calm down about giving their opinions about coaching in a coaching thread after a Grand Final loss. Ok.....

 

[lioninthesand]

Seriously mate, please settle down.

The thing with a forum is that it allows people to respond to others peoples comments...which i did just that to yours.....but please, get a grip.

Question: If we had won the game by 4 points (which we could have easily done should a decision or 2 go our way or the bounce of the ball favour us at a critical time or 2 in the red zone of the 4th quarter) would you be saying the same about our coaching? I dont understand people saying we need better coaching when we came so close to taking it out. Please let me know your thoughts as I would like to understand better bearing in mind we lost the GF by a kick.

The devastation by all players/coach's/admin/family after the game in the rooms was heartbreaking. They all poured out raw emotions that showed how hard it hit them and how deflated everyone was after such a year of extreme effort. It's a private moment for all to share with eachother so I am pleased the media left them alone to console eachother but there was not a dry eye in the room. To come so close but come away without the prize, devestating.

Your response a massive overreaction, you constantly derail/pollute threads with posts just like it. You’d think I’d called for a hanging in the town square.

Not sure what emotion in the rooms has to do with the conversation either are you just letting us know you were there?

Any way… moving on.

I’ve detailed why I have had and continue to have concerns about our coaching panel. The simplest way to explain it is, coaches are commodities and the industry determines their credentials and value, with that in mind - when was the last time we have an assistant coach in the conversation for a senior gig?

Does it mean they are terrible coaches? No. Does it mean they should be sacked? No. Does that mean I don’t value them? No.. infact, what we’ve got from this coaching panel is incredible.

Should we be in the market for a senior/quality coach to come in to assist Fages? ABSOLUTELY!

And yes - had we won that game I still would have been hoping for investment and improvements to the coaching line up.

If we somehow snatched that game, I still would have said ‘pies were tactically/structurally better and far more well drilled than us, amazing we snatched it through scoring efficiency, but I would love to see us bolster our coaching dept as it’s an area we can improve in’.

I’m not calling for a clean out or for anyone’s head, but with Jed leaving and other coaches potentially OOC - now is the time to look at bolstering our stocks.

8 years in to Fagans tenure I would love to see some senior support come in.

 

[Nunez]

To be honest even if we’d won I’d still be a bit worried about how Collingwood’s system seemed to dominate ours. I think we’re a more talented team on balance than Collingwood but didn’t have the answers for them tactically on the day.

So what you're saying is we were missing the ?

 

[martinson]

The last time I looked this was a footy club forum. Not a military academy.

Sometimes when you're close to things you can tend to take any suggestions or criticism as breaking ranks and head lopping off worthy.

The one area where we fell down a bit on the weekend was tactically. That's just my honest opinion. I've put up many posts explaining where. They were only small things that made a difference. That's just my impression and opinion. And I expressed it during the game. For whatever that opinion is worth.

Do I blame coaches ? No . They put their heart and soul into it. If they were all to stay would that worry me ?? No. They're fine people and do a good job. If there was someone we thought was better and had better credentials would we get hold of them ?? Obviously yes.

Do I know what I'm talking about ?? Who knows, the same as all the other people who think they do.

 

[Tom14]

If we'd won I'd have been too busy laughing at Collingwood losing the grand final due to opposition accuracy but winning on expected score to fuss about the coaching. That and being generally happy.

I detailed my second guess with the coaching approach on grand final day of trying to put a spare behind the ball, and I think that basically cost us the game. Of course, we won't ever know the counterfactual of what would have happened if we'd just kept our usual structure. A bit of a rethink on those scenarios is required as a minimum.