Coach Fages and the coaching group

[T Rick]

Get the dynamic duo back together so we can sort the premiership out next season.

They've laid the foundations, it's time to come together again to finish this off.

View attachment 1844769

That ship has sailed...

 

[Viceregal]

That ship has sailed...

Or driven away really really fast!

 

[Dalions]

Or driven away really really fast!

Drove away from North Melbourne at speed without looking in the rear vision mirror.

I would imagine he left Brisbane with excitement but also with some hesitation.

 

[Section 5]

Or driven away really really fast!

Good one

 

[spotthedog1]

Lloyd comes from another system where he's been a consistent performer. He has been playing under Leon Cameron, Mark McVeigh as care taker and last year under Adam Kingsley. I believe he is a good external addition to our club.

You can't keep scrolling back and count from Tapping onwards. Tapping moved because he wanted to relocate to Melbourne and there was a good opportunity. He has in fact stepped away completely now to deal with health issues - Essendon assistant coach Dale Tapping to step away to focus on cancer battle

Adcock was the big loss and after such a long stint with our club, it's about time he explored other opportunities as well. We can cover Stone with Daly.

Lloyd comes from another system where he was a player. He has no coaching experience. I don't care who taught him, it doesn't make him a teacher. I thought we'd moved away from the correlation between playing ability and coaching ability.

Tapping left 2 years ago. He was the start of the current trend of OUT experience IN inexperienced recent players.

OUT Tapping, IN Morris
OUT Stone, Adcock, IN Lloyd, 0.5 Rich

In the last 18 months, that's 3 coaches with a combined 20+ years experience, replaced with a combined 0 years experience.

"Cover Stone with Daly". He already has a full time job. How many spare hours do you think Danny Daly has every week?

 

[Nathan Barley]

Lloyd comes from another system where he was a player. He has no coaching experience. I don't care who taught him, it doesn't make him a teacher. I thought we'd moved away from the correlation between playing ability and coaching ability.

Tapping left 2 years ago. He was the start of the current trend of OUT experience IN inexperienced recent players.

OUT Tapping, IN Morris
OUT Stone, Adcock, IN Lloyd, 0.5 Rich

In the last 18 months, that's 3 coaches with a combined 20+ years experience, replaced with a combined 0 years experience.

"Cover Stone with Daly". He already has a full time job. How many spare hours do you think Danny Daly has every week?

Tapping was replaced with Bruce. Morris had previously been coached at the bulldogs after he retired

Strong “why isn’t everybody as angry as I am?” energy going on here

 

[Hollow Knight]

A lot of people speaking with certainty about things they have bugger all info on while questioning the decisions of people at the club who have far more information.

Can't comment on Lloyd other than to say I like the general vibe of development coaches who have had to scrap and make the best of limited opportunities, ordinary luck and modest talents. Same reason why I think Lester will be a phenomenal coaching asset one day.

 

[Gadzorks]

Interesting wording in your linked article about our chase of Scott Selwood.

“Brisbane tried to lure Collingwood assistant coach Scott Selwood north but the Magpies held him to his contract, retaining the panel that helped the club secure a 16th premiership in September.”

So he thought a flag would earn him the right to leave.

Always great when opposition retain people who don't want to be there.

 

[spotthedog1]

Tapping was replaced with Bruce. Morris had previously been coached at the bulldogs after he retired

Strong “why isn’t everybody as angry as I am?” energy going on here

Yep, should've actually looked up stuff. True, Tapping was replaced by Bruce. Experience for experience. Reasonable.

It was Littlejohn for Morris, and you're right, Morris did go straight in as a development coach for a year before he was fired and worked as a salesman for 2 years. Then we offered him a lifeline.

So it's Littlejohn, Adcock and Stone out in the last 18 months (20+ yrs experience), replaced by Morris and Lloyd and 0.5 Rich (combined 1 year experience).

I'm not angry. I know the club had a go and went after Selwood. We may or may not have gone after others too. We know that it's difficult to convince coaches to move North. Especially when Harwick is trying to build his panel too, and comes with a bit of a reputation. Not mad at the clubs for that, but we are haemorrhaging coaching experience. For 2 years, there's been plenty said about the lack of ideas and flexibility in our coaching... not sure how we could say we're even treading water.

 

[spotthedog1]

A lot of people speaking with certainty about things they have bugger all info on while questioning the decisions of people at the club who have far more information.

Can't comment on Lloyd other than to say I like the general vibe of development coaches who have had to scrap and make the best of limited opportunities, ordinary luck and modest talents. Same reason why I think Lester will be a phenomenal coaching asset one day.

Honestly, I think that's been a substantial reason we've kept Lester on the books for so long. It's been noted how much tape he does with the youngens. Avoid the soft cap, keep him on the list.

 

[JasRulz63]

Port haven't looked very far outside their club to find their coaches...

 

[Grasshopper17]

Port haven't looked very far outside their club to find their coaches...

Look at some of the comments there. Same sh!t different smell

 

[Nathan Barley]

Yep, should've actually looked up stuff. True, Tapping was replaced by Bruce. Experience for experience. Reasonable.

It was Littlejohn for Morris, and you're right, Morris did go straight in as a development coach for a year before he was fired and worked as a salesman for 2 years. Then we offered him a lifeline.

So it's Littlejohn, Adcock and Stone out in the last 18 months (20+ yrs experience), replaced by Morris and Lloyd and 0.5 Rich (combined 1 year experience).

I'm not angry. I know the club had a go and went after Selwood. We may or may not have gone after others too. We know that it's difficult to convince coaches to move North. Especially when Harwick is trying to build his panel too, and comes with a bit of a reputation. Not mad at the clubs for that, but we are haemorrhaging coaching experience. For 2 years, there's been plenty said about the lack of ideas and flexibility in our coaching... not sure how we could say we're even treading water.

Id probably be more worried about losing experience if we didn’t already have an extremely experienced coaching panel, plus Daly

 

[Section 5]

Coaches
As a group are the Lions coaches: very good, good, above average, below average or filling space.

I would say without any first-hand knowledge they would fall into at least the good category.
I doubt we finish the past 5 H & A seasons in 2nd, 6th, 4th, 2nd & 2nd without some good coaches at the club.
The senior coach of course is the most important hire.
He sets the agender and they implement it with input coming from each one of the assistants, analysts etc etc.

Getting the right player mix and the senior coach is way ahead of the assistant coach hire in my opinion.

I will also add if Queensland was the AFL capital of Australia with 10 teams and had an MCG capacity ground, we probably win 2/3 of the last 5 Grand finals.
Interstate teams have a very hard time making and then actually winning a grand final.

 

[Lets Roar like '44]

A lot of people speaking with certainty about things they have bugger all info on while questioning the decisions of people at the club who have far more information.

Can't comment on Lloyd other than to say I like the general vibe of development coaches who have had to scrap and make the best of limited opportunities, ordinary luck and modest talents. Same reason why I think Lester will be a phenomenal coaching asset one day.

Lloyd was an ordinary player, and when ordinary players try and tell players how it should be done, that’s the issue. And “modest talents” is being generous.

 

[mpal6]

Lloyd was an ordinary player, and when ordinary players try and tell players how it should be done, that’s the issue. And “modest talents” is being generous.

Well our coach doesn't have much going either then.
TANFL premiership 1980, 1988 !!!

 

[Lets Roar like '44]

Well our coach doesn't have much going either then.
TANFL premiership 1980, 1988 !!!

Exactly…

 

[Grasshopper17]

Lloyd was an ordinary player, and when ordinary players try and tell players how it should be done, that’s the issue. And “modest talents” is being generous.

Bit like Alastair Clarkson I suppose

 

[briztoon]

Lloyd was an ordinary player, and when ordinary players try and tell players how it should be done, that’s the issue. And “modest talents” is being generous.

Very, very, very few genuinely good players, in any team sport, have made good, let alone great, coaches.

Leigh Matthews is an outlier when you look at world sports.

 

[BRAB]

Collingwood would kill to have our coaching group. Stop stressing everyone.

 

[irel]

Lloyd was an ordinary player, and when ordinary players try and tell players how it should be done, that’s the issue. And “modest talents” is being generous.

Haha, I can't imagine Alex Ferguson telling Beckham or Rooney or Ronaldo how to play.

 

[JasRulz63]

Lloyd was an ordinary player, and when ordinary players try and tell players how it should be done, that’s the issue. And “modest talents” is being generous.

Collingwood players like Nick Daicos had Hayden Skipworth and Scott Selwood as midfield line coaches and Neville Jetta and Andy Often has defensive line coaches. Turned out OK for them.

 

[dlanod]

Especially when Harwick is trying to build his panel too, and comes with a bit of a reputation.

Interesting angle, hadn't thought of that. When you're picking from a limited pool of coaches willing to move interstate and someone else is picking half a dozen people out of it, that'll definitely impact matters.

 

[dlanod]

Lloyd was an ordinary player, and when ordinary players try and tell players how it should be done, that’s the issue. And “modest talents” is being generous.

It's far more often the opposite. Guys like Voss or Buckley or Hird who have all the talent in the world don't get why players don't just win all their one on ones and be better. I remember Voss, when he was with us, making comments about his system being fine but the players weren't executing - he didn't seem to get that players have inherent limitations. Hird going off the deep end and drugging his players to try to get them better is another example.

Lessons that someone like Lloyd (or Fagan) learned from maxing themselves out apply across the board. Someone like Neale or Ashcroft doesn't need to hear it, but a McCluggage not taking that final step to stardom could theoretically benefit for example.

 

[Hollow Knight]

It's far more often the opposite. Guys like Voss or Buckley or Hird who have all the talent in the world don't get why players don't just win all their one on ones and be better. I remember Voss, when he was with us, making comments about his system being fine but the players weren't executing - he didn't seem to get that players have inherent limitations. Hird going off the deep end and drugging his players to try to get them better is another example.

Buckley was allegedly also forced to adjust his coaching style significantly because in the early days he struggled to accept anything less than perfection from his players who weren't as naturally gifted and professionally hard-wired as him.

You see it all the time with some teachers who are absolute masters of their subject because it comes so naturally to them. As a result though, they they are terrible at transferring it to their students because they never had to fully experience or reflect on the struggle of not being gifted and having to grind step-by-step.

Speaking as a teacher who is a subject expert first, educator second, it is something I have had to keep developing and refining myself. Some of the best refinement of our processes and resources have come from teachers (often young ones) who aren't subject experts and are therefore better equipped to step back and look with fresh eyes at how you can teach it from the ground up.

Coaches who know the struggle have a lot to bring to the table. They may also seem more relatable and empathetic to the players, and that strong relationship can often be crucial. See: Chris Fagan (who is also a teacher).