Analysis Finding the root of our problems

[Livonski]

Just doing your job and not worrying your team mates is not leadership. Maybe have a think about the word leadership. Leadership > Leader. Leaders dont just worry about their own game. Sorry, but you are just plain wrong.

Not JUST doing your job. START by doing your job.
Achieve that then we'll start talking about leaders.
Jack's job is to kick goals. He didn't. And we desperately needed him to lead by doing so. He failed at that.
Selwood, Hodge etc the undoubted leaders, actually kick them. THey take the chances when the get them and drive home their dominance.

Jack misses. Griffo missed two sitters that would have put scoreboard pressure on the oppo. Listen to Hinkley talk about that aspect of footy.
And Cotch, once again, when we needed it, kicked a weak fade to the right. Again.

Leaders don't miss important shots.

Now I'm not saying if they'd kicked them we'd have won, but the weakness at that aspect of the game is symptomatic of our problem.

 

[ReaperX]

Quoting this underrated post. Not for brilliance but for being one of the silliest things I've ever read on this forum.

That may be the stupidest thing I have read on BigFooty. Congrats.

What each and every of the 44 players on our list should be wanting of themselves is simple:

To win every premiership from now until they retire. Becoming a record breaking premiership team with 100% DE, never missing one kick, handball, tackle, chasing effort, or pressure act ever, winning 22 games in the H&A season, and then 3 finals matches, every single season, without fail.

If you do not have this as your stretch goal, you are aiming too low.

In sales, these types of goals are called "stretch" targets. Nobody in reality actually says you fail if you don't hit them, but the point is to have the desire to continue to push yourself, and never settle, no matter how well you are travelling. I'm guessing you both missed that point of my previous posts, but here's an analogy to explain what I mean:

Humanity wants to travel to far and away galaxies. We probably never will, but it's this curiosity of the wonders of space that drives us as a species to continue to try and develop technology that will get us there and conquer it. Truth is, in reality, we will probably never even see 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of even our own bloody galaxy up-front, let alone other galaxies. But if everybody in those fields stopped aiming for what we'd laymans say is "unrealistic expectations", we'd never improve our technologies, because we'd rest on our laurels and accept how good things are already, and stop trying to go further than we have.

The point of my posts, which yes are outlandish and saying ridiculous things that won't ever happen (such as docking match payments), is to highlight the type of ruthless attitude this club needs to have if we want to ever climb the mountain again.

The players are showing that they don't care about this club enough, and don't have the will and determination to see us through. The Cotchin set shot is a great example of this.

Cotchin missing that set shot absolutely kills us, and despite him being the captain of the footy club, you just KNEW deep down that he was going to miss the shot. At least I did, anyway. Because that's what Richmond does, it fails.

And then 20 minutes later, a 4 gamer kicks a goal from the boundary line, and again the moment he took the mark, you KNEW deep down that he was going to kick the goal. I was watching the game with a mate, and I was like "goal", and he said "nah no way", then I said "trust me mate, it's against Richmond, teams find heart against us".

Melbourne have been garbage for nearly 10 years now, and yet they still have some heart. The closest thing I saw to "heart" in an RFC performance in my 20 years was that 4th quarter against Sydney last year in Round 23, and it was the happiest moment of my supporting life when we won that game.

It was only a flash, but if we played with the same determination as we did in that game, every single week, we'd be 4-0 at the moment, not 2-2.

Hardwick does indeed understand, because you can tell he's frustrated. The light bulb that hasn't quite turned on yet though, is that he can't fix it. Maybe nobody can I dunno, but either way, it's proven that he at least can't, which means he needs to go.

I love Dimma and I am so grateful for how far he's taken us, but if he can't get us playing with ticker, we're heading for a similar fate to Carlton.

 

[Richo is God]

That Sydney game in round 23 last year, the team WANTED to win. Players weren't being lazy and actually running to create an option rather than what's been happening this year with slow movement and dumb decision making. Maybe they just think oh well theres always next week, but last year there wasn't a next week - an incentive to actually play well I guess you could say.

It's so frustrating watching this team and the way they are coached. So far this year I haven't recognised a period where they adjusted the game plan at all. Just let the Dogs and Melbourne have their way with us the ENTIRE game. We are lucky the Blues and Lions are crap otherwise we would be 0-4. Can't see us winning the next 4 either, or maybe they'll decide to show up once but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[ReaperX]

That Sydney game in round 23 last year, the team WANTED to win. Players weren't being lazy and actually running to create an option rather than what's been happening this year with slow movement and dumb decision making. Maybe they just think oh well theres always next week, but last year there wasn't a next week - an incentive to actually play well I guess you could say.

It's so frustrating watching this team and the way they are coached. So far this year I haven't recognised a period where they adjusted the game plan at all. Just let the Dogs and Melbourne have their way with us the ENTIRE game. We are lucky the Blues and Lions are crap otherwise we would be 0-4. Can't see us winning the next 4 either, or maybe they'll decide to show up once but I'm not holding my breath.

Exactly, that's exactly what they think. Which was why I brought up docking match payments.

I'm not an idiot, obviously the AFLPA would never allow it, and it would never actually happen. But if it ever DID, can you imagine how good it would be for players to be playing essentially on "commission", and that the better they play, the more they'd earn? And vice versa, the more mistakes and lack of effort they had, they'd be losing money?

It would change the ATTITUDE of the team, which is 99.9% of our teams problem. Hardwick knows it, Blind Freddy knows it, and the players even know it. It's not Cotchin saying to himself "well if I miss no big deal", or whoever else saying "oh I missed a tackle, no big deal" actively, it really seems to be almost a sub-conscious type of thing.

It's an intangible that can only be rectified by something stirring the playing group into action so heavily, that they just snap and go mental. Like Geelong did in 2007.

This team can beat Fremantle, Port Adelaide, Hawthorn, and Sydney if it's on, people on the Bay are giving Hardwick shit for saying it, but the one thing in his presser that is right is that we CAN beat anyone.

What he forget to mention is that we can also LOSE to anyone too.

We need the "fear of death" into these players somehow. We need them to be absolutely petrified of losing and of the consequences of losing, that they just simply DO NOT ACCEPT IT.

Ever.

We accept defeat far too easily as a supporter base, and as a club as a whole.

 

[theflea]

Not JUST doing your job. START by doing your job.
Achieve that then we'll start talking about leaders.
Jack's job is to kick goals. He didn't. And we desperately needed him to lead by doing so. He failed at that.
Selwood, Hodge etc the undoubted leaders, actually kick them. THey take the chances when the get them and drive home their dominance.

Jack misses. Griffo missed two sitters that would have put scoreboard pressure on the oppo. Listen to Hinkley talk about that aspect of footy.
And Cotch, once again, when we needed it, kicked a weak fade to the right. Again.

Leaders don't miss important shots.

Now I'm not saying if they'd kicked them we'd have won, but the weakness at that aspect of the game is symptomatic of our problem.

God yes. We miss so many shots by pure carelessness, its not funny. Matthews stated on the cats coverage today, that goal accuracy is still the number 1 skill you have. If you miss and the other don't you lose. If we kicked accurately the other days we would have been 5 goals up with our tails up. Now we don't know if we would have won but we certainly would have been closer to it.

 

[Tiger Claw]

Psych tests. Do we recruit with a cookie cutter profile? Just a wild thought based on nothing.

 

[Tigerbob]

Psych tests. Do we recruit with a cookie cutter profile? Just a wild thought based on nothing.

We recruit guys with good character. Meaning they won't be party animals and stay out of the paper for bad news.

It doesn't cover in the heat of battle who will take charge and lead.

It's flawed. Cause some guys who like a social life makw unbelievable leaders. Luke Hodge. Jonathan Brown. Just to name a couple.

Our club is soft. Lacks character. Is stale.

 

[Tiger Claw]

We recruit guys with good character. Meaning they won't be party animals and stay out of the paper for bad news.

It doesn't cover in the heat of battle who will take charge and lead.

It's flawed. Cause some guys who like a social life makw unbelievable leaders. Luke Hodge. Jonathan Brown. Just to name a couple.

Our club is soft. Lacks character. Is stale.

Well you said it. I was half thinking it. Just something seems off when in certain circumstances almost the whole side goes to water. Do we like pliable players with the downside being none can take things by the scruff of the neck by their own volition? There are exceptions I suppose. Rance being one. Totally unaffected by circumstances and just keeps on cracking in.

 

[TigerImposter]

What each and every of the 44 players on our list should be wanting of themselves is simple:

To win every premiership from now until they retire. Becoming a record breaking premiership team with 100% DE, never missing one kick, handball, tackle, chasing effort, or pressure act ever, winning 22 games in the H&A season, and then 3 finals matches, every single season, without fail.

If you do not have this as your stretch goal, you are aiming too low.

In sales, these types of goals are called "stretch" targets. Nobody in reality actually says you fail if you don't hit them, but the point is to have the desire to continue to push yourself, and never settle, no matter how well you are travelling. I'm guessing you both missed that point of my previous posts, but here's an analogy to explain what I mean:

Humanity wants to travel to far and away galaxies. We probably never will, but it's this curiosity of the wonders of space that drives us as a species to continue to try and develop technology that will get us there and conquer it. Truth is, in reality, we will probably never even see 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of even our own bloody galaxy up-front, let alone other galaxies. But if everybody in those fields stopped aiming for what we'd laymans say is "unrealistic expectations", we'd never improve our technologies, because we'd rest on our laurels and accept how good things are already, and stop trying to go further than we have.

The point of my posts, which yes are outlandish and saying ridiculous things that won't ever happen (such as docking match payments), is to highlight the type of ruthless attitude this club needs to have if we want to ever climb the mountain again.

The players are showing that they don't care about this club enough, and don't have the will and determination to see us through. The Cotchin set shot is a great example of this.

Cotchin missing that set shot absolutely kills us, and despite him being the captain of the footy club, you just KNEW deep down that he was going to miss the shot. At least I did, anyway. Because that's what Richmond does, it fails.

And then 20 minutes later, a 4 gamer kicks a goal from the boundary line, and again the moment he took the mark, you KNEW deep down that he was going to kick the goal. I was watching the game with a mate, and I was like "goal", and he said "nah no way", then I said "trust me mate, it's against Richmond, teams find heart against us".

Melbourne have been garbage for nearly 10 years now, and yet they still have some heart. The closest thing I saw to "heart" in an RFC performance in my 20 years was that 4th quarter against Sydney last year in Round 23, and it was the happiest moment of my supporting life when we won that game.

It was only a flash, but if we played with the same determination as we did in that game, every single week, we'd be 4-0 at the moment, not 2-2.

Hardwick does indeed understand, because you can tell he's frustrated. The light bulb that hasn't quite turned on yet though, is that he can't fix it. Maybe nobody can I dunno, but either way, it's proven that he at least can't, which means he needs to go.

I love Dimma and I am so grateful for how far he's taken us, but if he can't get us playing with ticker, we're heading for a similar fate to Carlton.

This is why people think your delusional
If the Sydney game was the happiest football day of your life. They rested five players
We could only have lost that game if we didn't turn up
Shit buddy you've witnessed nothing

 

[Mr Magic]

This is why people think your delusional
If the Sydney game was the happiest football day of your life. They rested five players
We could only have lost that game if we didn't turn up
Shit buddy you've witnessed nothing

You only have to look at the Freo match versus the Swans where Freo decided not to turn up against the Swans in the third quarter and other matches to know you can only take some match results with a grain of salt.

If any team wins these days the first question that needs to be asked is if the opposition turned up and then you go from there.

 

[SplintWhisky]

To the OP, can you explain why you want Jack as captain. I've played the game for many many years (albeit well retired these days) and do not see one quality that Jack has as a leader. He

I've said my bit re Cotchin as captain in the Hardwick thread on the MB...the club has erred and clearly stalled his development. They've turned him into a good midfielder whereas he should clearly be a top 5 mid. I don't know who else has captaincy material but I dare say the cupboard is bare. They need to release the burden of captaincy on Cotch and let him play. He should have only been given the captaincy in his mid to late 20's.

As for Jack, the bloke isn't even in the leadership group which I think is selected by the players. He is not a leader as much as he may think he is.

For me personally I would always prefer to follow someone that has passion and is happy to call out people on their shit. I don't think I have ever seen riewoldt look uninteresred in the game when we are looking down. He also appears to do more onfield directing as well.

I guess it all boils down to I would prefer to follow someone who I know would die for the club and is happy to call a spade a spade (al la his comments about the game plan last year). Like I said in the op cotchin's comment about entertaining the possibility of retiring if the tigers won a flag still makes me question him.

 

[RunningBounce]

That Sydney game in round 23 last year, the team WANTED to win.

This.

This was 6 games ago. Only 6 games. The list is more or less the same. For all the analysis, I think the game plan is more or less the same. I don't think the difference between beating the Swans and losing to Melbourne comes down to whether Morris plays forward or back.

It comes down to genuine desire.

Watch the Melbourne replay, paying special attention to Daniel Cross. Can't kick. Would be out-paced by an elderly lady on a mobility scooter. But I'd pick him in front of 20 of the 22 we put on the park last weekend. (Edwards and Maric at least played with genuine desire.) Cross just wanted it more than most anyone in a Yellow and Black jumper, so he got it and we missed out. Good, ordinary player. We need more like him.

 

[ReaperX]

This is why people think your delusional
If the Sydney game was the happiest football day of your life. They rested five players
We could only have lost that game if we didn't turn up
Shit buddy you've witnessed nothing

The quality of the opposition is not what I am talking about, I'm talking about the "heart" and "fight" that they showed, when everything was on the line, and failure was not an option.

I'm sure that on paper we've had more impressive victories, but I reckon you're mad if you don't rate that moment when the final siren went against the Swans, as one of the best Tigers moments in a very long time.

 

[TigerImposter]

The quality of the opposition is not what I am talking about, I'm talking about the "heart" and "fight" that they showed, when everything was on the line, and failure was not an option.

I'm sure that on paper we've had more impressive victories, but I reckon you're mad if you don't rate that moment when the final siren went against the Swans, as one of the best Tigers moments in a very long time.

we had heart and fight against Brissy
we are flat track bullies
didnt rate swans win it meant we got a later pick and humiliated as well the following week
totally insignificant in my greatest rfc moments

 

[ReaperX]

we had heart and fight against Brissy
we are flat track bullies
didnt rate swans win it meant we got a later pick and humiliated as well the following week
totally insignificant in my greatest rfc moments

I disagree, we didn't have much heart against Brisbane, when they were applying pressure early in the game, they were on top of us and we were playing shit footy. Deep into the 2nd quarter we were only 1 point in-front.

When Brisbane dropped off from late in the 2nd, we got a chance to play some bruise free footy, and we showed the world that our skills are actually very good, and we can carve lesser teams up... when they've dropped off.

Sydney rested some stars, but still had a team far superior to the Lions on the park, and not only that, but the Swans were applying immense pressure on us from basically the 2nd quarter on-wards.

Do you even remember how much they peppered the goals late in that final quarter, and how we couldn't get it out of there no matter what we tried?

If that game was in Round 13 or 14 and had no significant bearing on achieving anything other than 4 points, I'd almost agree with you. But with what was at stake, a finals berth, it was an amazing footy moment in and of itself. Sure we got smacked the next week by Port, and we've struggled this season for intensity, so maybe in the overall scheme of things it actually will end up being insignificant... but in the moment mate, it was incredible.

Each to their own though I suppose.

 

[Jurica Stockade]

Until our players lift their intensity at the man with the ball we will remain a middle to bottom road team. So many times our tackles are soft and pedestrian like. So many times I see opposition players get the arms free and get the ball off to an outside runner.
They need to hit the ball carrier and hit him hard, pin his arms so he does not get the ball free. This type of pressure and intensity goes along way to winning games, it slows the play down which helps out our backline, seeing someone get pinned for holding the ball after a bone crunching tackle lifts the players around you.

 

[TigerImposter]

Morris has the answers

http://m.richmondfc.com.au/news/2015-04-27/morris-expresses-disappointment

 

[Rubber Hips]

We would be more forgiving if after every loss, the club found each of us a root...be easier to take
#rootafterloss

 

[tunksy]

Morris has the answers

http://m.richmondfc.com.au/news/2015-04-27/morris-expresses-disappointment

Oh wow that was... uninsightful...

Back it up please. Hurt. Want the win more. Want to play finals give that extra effort..

And get more ball please

 

[TigerImposter]

Oh wow that was... uninsightful...

Back it up please. Hurt. Want the win more. Want to play finals give that extra effort..

And get more ball please

It's all coached they're all a bunch of parrots imitating DH
It's really terrible and displaying the actual lack of character our players have. No natural instinct and flair on the field and none off it
I don't want troublemakers at the club , but I don't want 43 clones of DH
Why do they keep covering up the holes after the games? Do something about during the game. Make a stance stand up. Don't tell me after the event. It's too late.
We're hurting rubbish after two EF losses. What about the fans ? I'm sick of being taken for an idiot and until they stand up this club may as well be called the Richmond Parrots bc I've heard the same Lamentations for too long. Morris should be the first dropped , but he's flapping his mouth as if he had a one off shocker
Appalling release by the club , but at least they tested out to see if my bull dust meter was working

 

[1980]

That Sydney game in round 23 last year, the team WANTED to win. Players weren't being lazy and actually running to create an option rather than what's been happening this year with slow movement and dumb decision making. Maybe they just think oh well theres always next week, but last year there wasn't a next week - an incentive to actually play well I guess you could say.

It's so frustrating watching this team and the way they are coached. So far this year I haven't recognised a period where they adjusted the game plan at all. Just let the Dogs and Melbourne have their way with us the ENTIRE game. We are lucky the Blues and Lions are crap otherwise we would be 0-4. Can't see us winning the next 4 either, or maybe they'll decide to show up once but I'm not holding my breath.

Sydney were resting all their players that day.

 

[1980]

We recruit guys with good character. Meaning they won't be party animals and stay out of the paper for bad news.

It doesn't cover in the heat of battle who will take charge and lead.

It's flawed. Cause some guys who like a social life makw unbelievable leaders. Luke Hodge. Jonathan Brown. Just to name a couple.

Our club is soft. Lacks character. Is stale.

But what about Dusty?

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

I've had a couple of roots since the game and I am no wiser as to what the problem is ?
Anyone else had any luck ?

 

[Livonski]

It's all coached they're all a bunch of parrots imitating DH
It's really terrible and displaying the actual lack of character our players have. No natural instinct and flair on the field and none off it
I don't want troublemakers at the club , but I don't want 43 clones of DH
Why do they keep covering up the holes after the games? Do something about during the game. Make a stance stand up. Don't tell me after the event. It's too late.
We're hurting rubbish after two EF losses. What about the fans ? I'm sick of being taken for an idiot and until they stand up this club may as well be called the Richmond Parrots bc I've heard the same Lamentations for too long. Morris should be the first dropped , but he's flapping his mouth as if he had a one off shocker
Appalling release by the club , but at least they tested out to see if my bull dust meter was working

I agree with a lot of that TI. They should just keep quiet, or at least give us something that tells us they are hurting and understand what the issue was.
I don't agree with them parroting DH. Dimma called them insipid. The contest we dished up was crap and the coach pointed that out.
Cotch and Morris did not parrot that at all.

 

[TiggerMan22]

What each and every of the 44 players on our list should be wanting of themselves is simple:

To win every premiership from now until they retire. Becoming a record breaking premiership team with 100% DE, never missing one kick, handball, tackle, chasing effort, or pressure act ever, winning 22 games in the H&A season, and then 3 finals matches, every single season, without fail.

Sure you aim for the highest possible. That doesnt mean you drop people when they miss 1 set shot.