First 22 in 2023

[On the quiet]

A big No IMO re Payne trade.

Adam’s turns 30 next June. Has been very injury prone at bulldogs, and has missed quite a bit of footy at the lions too. Now concussions to be wary of too.

Payne only just turned 23 this month. Has a lot of good footy ahead of him. I think his decision making (back his marking over fisting the ball so often, like Steven May) and confidence is only going to grow.

His marking is exceptional (when he backs himself) as is his strength.

Payne, Andrews and Adams are my choice as starting KPD’s for 2023.

Gardiner just signed a min: 3 year contract so he is not playing ressies.

 

[jfn]

Ah Chee > Answerth. Not even close IMO

Totally agree. Starting 22 spots are very competitive in 2023.

I’d like the centreline to be McCluggage, Rayner, Ashcroft.

I think Payne will step up next year. He’s only 23, so his best years are to come.

 

[On the quiet]

Totally agree. Starting 22 spots are very competitive in 2023.

I’d like the centreline to be McCluggage, Rayner, Ashcroft.

I think Payne will step up next year. He’s only 23, so his best years are to come.

Great position for the club with competition for spots. Just hope the match committee are a little more flexible with team selections, based on opposition, and form etc. Showed towards the end of this season they were prepared to mix it up a bit.

I don't know too much about Ashcroft, other than many positive views on BF, but not sure he is an automatic lock with the addition of Dunkley and Dev's form towards the end of the season.

 

[lionraven]

Great position for the club with competition for spots. Just hope the match committee are a little more flexible with team selections, based on opposition, and form etc. Showed towards the end of this season they were prepared to mix it up a bit.

I don't know too much about Ashcroft, other than many positive views on BF, but not sure he is an automatic lock with the addition of Dunkley and Dev's form towards the end of the season.

I think he would be almost an automatic lock. Im not a draft watcher but people say he is tracking along the Sam Walsh line of development. In the VFL he was already near the top 5 despite being just a drop in into the team without any previous match practice/chemistry. Ashcroft already looks well-built physically and has been going through his own fitness program (informed by his dad and his AFL contacts) so its not like he will need time to build himself up to the AFL physically. I feel the only way he will develop further on our list is AFL game time.

 

[briztoon]

I think he would be almost an automatic lock. Im not a draft watcher but people say he is tracking along the Sam Walsh line of development. In the VFL he was already near the top 5 despite being just a drop in into the team without any previous match practice/chemistry. Ashcroft already looks well-built physically and has been going through his own fitness program (informed by his dad and his AFL contacts) so its not like he will need time to build himself up to the AFL physically. I feel the only way he will develop further on our list is AFL game time.

Ashcroft & Fletcher started preseason training with the 1 to 4 year players last year, and trained and participated in match sims both before and after Christmas.

I don’t know/remember if they played in the full blown match practices we had before the season proper.

There were plenty of other members here who went to those matches, who would know.

 

[Saucery]

I think he would be almost an automatic lock. Im not a draft watcher but people say he is tracking along the Sam Walsh line of development. In the VFL he was already near the top 5 despite being just a drop in into the team without any previous match practice/chemistry. Ashcroft already looks well-built physically and has been going through his own fitness program (informed by his dad and his AFL contacts) so its not like he will need time to build himself up to the AFL physically. I feel the only way he will develop further on our list is AFL game time.

I can see them pumping games into him to get him to 50 fast, much like they did with Raynor.

Wouldn't be surprised to see something similar happen with Wilmot.

Also I'd rather see Prior and Dev on the wings.

I think Prior has a higher ceiling than Ah Chee or Answerth (just my impression) and is just a flexible as either.

Those two will be able to look across at what the other is up to and read their minds as to where they are going.

Coordinated wingers.

Gestalt theory at it's finest!

 

[twhowler]

Personally, I think AhChee has given us all he has got (which may not be a popular opinion), he is a solid workman like player, but I honestly don’t think he has got much more to give.
Answerth on the other hand has still got more development to go, if put on a wing for an extended period of time. He tends to lower the eyes much more when playing on the wing with a bit more time as opposed to just bombing it long when under pressure in the backline.
Both are defensively minded but I just think Answerth will have more development when comparing the 2.

Ah Chee is a bit of a hard on to assess. Does some really good things, great aerial threat when he goes forward. Seems to go missing from games but I find it hard to assess if that is him role-playing or just not getting involved.

But I think Answerth has a lower ceiling. Very honest player but his kicking is quite poor. He is hard-working so it's hard to see it just being a matter of needing to get in more hours. I know Fagan loves him and found a spot for him on the wing rather than drop him, but i think his position has to be as a lockdown small defender or nothing.

 

[scott_the_man]

I think Ah Chee hasn't hit his peak yet. He hasn't had any continuity in a set position, and has more been used as a stop gap. I think if he had a good run of games on a flank without being switched around every 10 minutes he would benefit greatly. He was a top 10 pick in his draft year and that talent is definitely still there, he displays it with glimpses of brilliance every now and then. If he can find some consistency I think he will be a very solid player.

 

[KissKiss]

I think Ah Chee hasn't hit his peak yet. He hasn't had any continuity in a set position, and has more been used as a stop gap. I think if he had a good run of games on a flank without being switched around every 10 minutes he would benefit greatly. He was a top 10 pick in his draft year and that talent is definitely still there, he displays it with glimpses of brilliance every now and then. If he can find some consistency I think he will be a very solid player.

I'd agree that he gets sacrificed a lot for the team thing and it probably costs him at times. But then again the times I feel like I see him impact the most is when there is an injury and then he gets moved into a spot randomly. He seems to standup more in those circumstances.

On the wing choices in Whiting's team I would have all of Berry (pending playing more inside), Prior, Dev and Ah Chee over Answerth. I think the first four offer more there as I have issues with Answerth's ball use generally. Its always a tough role and I can see changes continue to happen there frequently across 2023.

 

[nup]

I remember watching a game of Answerth at Metricon a few years ago, I think it was against Essendon but could have been another team. He harassed and harassed and I thought bloody hell if he keeps doing that we've got a real asset there. I don't recall noticing him play like that again since coming back from his injury which is understandable, and I don't see him as best 22 as a result. Wilmot seems to have assets such as a bit more game sense and x factor and is in front of him from what I saw late this season. Still another preseason to come though

 

[Jivlain]

I remember watching a game of Answerth at Metricon a few years ago, I think it was against Essendon but could have been another team. He harassed and harassed and I thought bloody hell if he keeps doing that we've got a real asset there. I don't recall noticing him play like that again since coming back from his injury which is understandable, and I don't see him as best 22 as a result. Wilmot seems to have assets such as a bit more game sense and x factor and is in front of him from what I saw late this season. Still another preseason to come though

Presumably the one where he absolutely smothered McDonald-Tipungwuti?

 

[On the quiet]

Your club's best 22 in 2023: Who's in, who's out, who's new

Mike Whitings take -

There are two big off-season additions and a few headaches for the Lions to consider before they hit round one. Josh Dunkleyadds to a strong midfield, which might make things tricky for Jarryd Lyons to win a spot after a groin injury hampered him in the back half of 2022. Lyons and Deven Robertson, who played well during the Finals series, could push their way in with strong pre-seasons, but spots are tight. And then there's ready-made father-son prospect Will Ashcroftwho is yet to officially join the club, but will be pressing to make the 22 as well. The wing spots are tricky as well, but Noah Answerth and Callum Ah Chee have both shown they have an intent to defend. Jaxon Prior is unlucky, while Jarrod Berrycould also be used there. Jack Gunston's acquisition adds to an already potent forward line, which lost Dan McStay in the trade period. - Michael Whiting

B: Darcy Gardiner, Harris Andrews, Brandon Starcevich
HB: Keidean Coleman, Marcus Adams, Daniel Rich
C: Noah Answerth, Josh Dunkley, Callum Ah Chee
HB: Cam Rayner, Eric Hipwood, Dayne Zorko
F: Charlie Cameron, Joe Daniher, Jack Gunston
Foll: Oscar McInerney, Lachie Neale, Hugh McCluggage
I/C: Darcy Wilmot, Jarrod Berry, Zac Bailey, Lincoln McCarthy

Emerg: Jack Payne, Jarryd Lyons, Jaxon Prior, Deven Robertson

I would have Jarrod Berry replace Cal AhChee on the wing and Bailey to replace Zorko in the starting line up, Zorko to the bench, Dev Rob to replace Cal on the bench with Cal to emergency.

we are a strong side, but I hope Payne, Dev and Robertson are given considerable game time at the start of the year to show their credentials not just replacement players come in for a few games here and there to cover injuries. We really cannot blame them for wanting out at the end of the year, if they are just emergencies. Not that I rate David King but has stated it is no fun being in the squad, but not actually playing on GF day. I expect us to make the GF with this squad.

 

[Mighty Lions]

we are a strong side, but I hope Payne, Dev and Robertson are given considerable game time at the start of the year to show their credentials not just replacement players come in for a few games here and there to cover injuries. We really cannot blame them for wanting out at the end of the year, if they are just emergencies. Not that I rate David King but has stated it is no fun being in the squad, but not actually playing on GF day. I expect us to make the GF with this squad.

WOW...that's a high expectation that has potential to set you up for disappointment. I'm excited with what we have but given the twists & turns in any given season and the unknown about how good/bad our opposition become, I just stay excited about our chances.

 

[Viceregal]

Assuming we are not trashed by illness or injury I don't have a problem with expecting to play in the GF next year ... we fell one step short this time and if we can make the top four (2 )and not whack ourselves getting there we should be a good chance.

Assuming also strategy/tactics/player management commensurate with a premiership side ...

 

[Mighty Lions]

Assuming we are not trashed by illness or injury I don't have a problem with expecting to play in the GF next year ... we fell one step short this time and if we can make the top four (2 )and not whack ourselves getting there we should be a good chance.

Assuming also strategy/tactics/player management commensurate with a premiership side ...

& if we can get the moon to align with the molecular structure of the 4th quadrant that would help too.

 

[Viceregal]

& if we can get the moon to align with the molecular structure of the 4th quadrant that would help too.

Don't be silly - the moon only aligns with the molecular structure of the 3rd quadrant ... the 4th quadrant aligns with the Astral Plane!

Now if only we could play for four quarters!

 

[Mikevk123]

B Gardiner Andrews Starcevich
HB Rich Adams K.Coleman
C Mcluaggage Dunkley Berry
HF Bailey Daniher McCarthy
F Gunston Hipwood Cameron
FOLL- Omac Lyons Neale
I/C- Zorko, Rayner, Ashcroft, Robertson, Wilmot

Emerg- Mathieson,

 

[morsie]

B Gardiner Andrews Starcevich
HB Rich Adams K.Coleman
C Mcluaggage Dunkley Berry
HF Bailey Daniher McCarthy
F Gunston Hipwood Cameron
FOLL- Omac Lyons Neale
I/C- Zorko, Rayner, Ashcroft, Robertson, Wilmot

Emerg- Mathieson,

Looks good but I would have Fort on the bench if 5 interchange.No idea who comes out, maybe Lyons

 

[Strato]

Has Adams fully recovered from concussion or is he still having some concerns?

 

[jfn]

B Gardiner Andrews Starcevich
HB Rich Adams K.Coleman
C Mcluaggage Dunkley Berry
HF Bailey Daniher McCarthy
F Gunston Hipwood Cameron
FOLL- Omac Lyons Neale
I/C- Zorko, Rayner, Ashcroft, Robertson, Wilmot

Emerg- Mathieson,

Looks good on paper. Close to the best 23.
I would probably squeeze Fort onto the bench as backup ruck, or forward, or if a bigger back went down, Gunston would go back and Fort forward.
I think Ashcroft will start on the wing, like Walsh did at Carlton.
That would free up Berry into a tagging role, or play him as a taller back. He has the height and defensive skills.
I also think Payne will be putting a lot of pressure on Gardiner. Personally, I prefer Payne. I think he’s ready to take the next step.
Of the forwards, I’d have Gunston at CHF directing traffic, allowing Hipwood more freedom to run. I’d put Joe back at FF.
McCarthy is the player under a bit of pressure. Great at times, often in bursts, ordinary at other times. Lohmann is waiting.

 

[SizeMatters]

I want Robertson in the best 22. Issue with him is that his game style is best suited to blokes who are bigger and stronger. Once his body catches up... watch out. He needs to play inside and has all the skills to be a very good player there. Clean hands, can win the contested and loose ball and demonstrated ability to spread from contest to contest. In comparison to Lyons Robertson glides on the grass.

Hoping he can add 3 or 4 more kg's to his frame this offseason. Big year ahead for him.

 

[Dalions]

I want Robertson in the best 22.

Hoping he can add 3 or 4 more kg's to his frame this offseason. Big year ahead for him.

I am not really sure that Size Matters quite so much any more.
Yeah sure, he needs size to be able to compete on the inside but at the same time, the game is changing and speed, agility and the ability to be able to run and get from contest to contest are much more important in the modern game imo.

 

[p4p1]

Payne, Wilmot, Dev and Ah Chee all unlucky to not be in that side. And probably Lyons lucky to be in at this point. But all depends on fitness after the preseason I guess

With Dunkley in, does Lyons retain his spot either way?

 

[Mighty Lions]

With Dunkley in, does Lyons retain his spot either way?

Yes 100%, providing he is fit.

 

[rye]

Yes 100%, providing he is fit.

i saw a couple of players went in for offseason surgery (Gardiner, Daniher, Berry) - did JL go in for any kind of surgery? I'm pretty sure daniher had some kind of operation for OP when he developed it at essendon