First 22 in 2023

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Franklin Roughhead gunston…


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Franklin is similar in structure and playing type to Daniher and Hipwood.
They only had Franklin..

Roughhead and Gunston were similar. Same height but shorter than the ones mentioned above. Roughhead just had more meat on him than Gunston.

So basically the reverse of what we had. And I think that works more than our structure. Especially when the real talls (Franklin, Daniher, Hipwood) arent great marks.
 
Linc is also one of our best tacklers. Love what he brings to the team & despite what some say here, played his role significantly better than Bailey this year.
Hence the idea of moving him to defence.

I think linc has the ability to break open a game... And maybe after seeing The Flying Belgian post about score involvement I need to rethink it... But I just don't think we get full value out of him atm.

His current position is also one where we have a glut of candidates to full and not so much in defence

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Franklin is similar in structure and playing type to Daniher and Hipwood.
They only had Franklin..

Roughhead and Gunston were similar. Same height but shorter than the ones mentioned above. Roughhead just had more meat on him than Gunston.

So basically the reverse of what we had. And I think that works more than our structure. Especially when the real talls (Franklin, Daniher, Hipwood) arent great marks.
Roughead was a much better contested mark than Gunston. Gunston is a leading player more in the Breust mold

In order for Gunston to be effective we need to lower the eyes. If we bomb long Gunston won’t be anymore effective than mcstay. Potentially less effective as I rate mcstay as the better contested mark
 

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Hence the idea of moving him to defence.

I think linc has the ability to break open a game... And maybe after seeing The Flying Belgian post about score involvement I need to rethink it... But I just don't think we get full value out of him atm.
It may not have been score involvement exactly, perhaps it was scoring chain starter or something obscure along those lines. Whatever it was, it raised my eyebrows a bit.

I think that value thing is the lot of a small forward. I think back to watching Craig McRae and used to think similar, that he was so talented and clever and if only he could get involved a bit more. He is arguably our most reliable shot for goal I'd think.
 
It may not have been score involvement exactly, perhaps it was scoring chain starter or something obscure along those lines. Whatever it was, it raised my eyebrows a bit.

I think that value thing is the lot of a small forward. I think back to watching Craig McRae and used to think similar, that he was so talented and clever and if only he could get involved a bit more. He is arguably our most reliable shot for goal I'd think.
Haha I used to think exactly the same. Gee he was underrated by a few.

I'm sensing some irony as I type this... Maybe I should quit while I'm ahead... Or at least not so far behind

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Haha I used to think exactly the same. Gee he was underrated by a few.

I'm sensing some irony as I type this... Maybe I should quit while I'm ahead... Or at least not so far behind

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I do take your earlier point though - if you think about who is most at risk of being dropped in that forward line, his name is up there. Not because of his output, but becasuse he's behind Cameron, Rayner and Bailey probably. Also, I suspect, many are lured by the bright-new-shiny-thing potential of Lohmann.
 
Thing is its Lincs spot to lose and the others had the whole preseason and year to take it. Lets see if they do this upcoming preseason
 
I actually quite like Zorko for Lincs role up forward, not as good over head but has better disposal inside 50 and sets an example for defensive pressure.

What about Zorko for Rich down back?

Browny gave Rich an almighty spray after the Prelim.

Maybe it's time to give Rich a rest early season and swap Zorko in down back.

If Rich wants the spot back he has to show improvement, like anyone else.

No room for sacred cows or we don't improve.

"Have a look at Daniel Rich here (running on the wing). Do you think he wants to join in team defence? He’s still looking over going: ‘Oh I’ve got my man covered. Gary Rohan’s put 30 metres on him – they could have held hands when they crossed each other. But he had no desire to join in any team defence whatsoever.


“It’s alright when he’s got the footy and he looks beautiful because he’s a great kick.

“But time and time and time again you’ll see that from Daniel Rich having no interest in joining in on team defence.”



 
Gunstkn is a good mark for his size not great but good.He us also however a very smart footballer who leads to places where basically you can't miss him.Aleays has good shots for goal not too many tight angles again because of his leading patterns.If his body holds up he will be a major asset
 
Gunstkn is a good mark for his size not great but good.He us also however a very smart footballer who leads to places where basically you can't miss him.Aleays has good shots for goal not too many tight angles again because of his leading patterns.If his body holds up he will be a major asset

He's also great down back and can offer us a true utility player, one who can create mismatches at either end of the ground.

 
Regarding Linc's forward spot
I don't see him having a position change or any player in the VFL that could produce his numbers
Linc came to the Lions in 2019 so his numbers below from that date

However what i would like to see is more of our older players "managed" during the year

I have included our new guy Gunston and 2 young players in Bailey and Rayner
Also noticed in this 4 year period all have kicked more goals than behinds.
One exception being year 2019 Rayner kicked 20 goals 25 behinds

Name​
Year​
Games​
Goals
Behinds
Tackles
Score Involvements
McCarthy - Gunston202225 (16) (24) (24)35 (32) (37) (24)13 (24) (18) (21)83 (22) (52) (56)119 (91) (133)(115)
Bailey - Rayner202124 (1) (24) (0)36 (0) (31) (0)15 (0) (18) (0)80 (2) (68) (0)121 (0) (166) (0)
202017 (16) (19) (17) 15 (31) (13) (17)15 (21) (9) (7)54 (22) (47) (54) 74 (87) (69) (69)
201924 (20) (15) (24)20 (26) (5) (20)13 (21) (5) (25)94 (46) (29) (52)103(126) (39) (101)
 
What about Zorko for Rich down back?

Browny gave Rich an almighty spray after the Prelim.

Maybe it's time to give Rich a rest early season and swap Zorko in down back.

If Rich wants the spot back he has to show improvement, like anyone else.

No room for sacred cows or we don't improve.

"Have a look at Daniel Rich here (running on the wing). Do you think he wants to join in team defence? He’s still looking over going: ‘Oh I’ve got my man covered. Gary Rohan’s put 30 metres on him – they could have held hands when they crossed each other. But he had no desire to join in any team defence whatsoever.


“It’s alright when he’s got the footy and he looks beautiful because he’s a great kick.

“But time and time and time again you’ll see that from Daniel Rich having no interest in joining in on team defence.”



I think that Rich is a bit underrated as far as his ability to defend. He doesn't have great pace and can be exposed in that regard, but if the ball is coming in high he puts himself in good positions to spoil and puts his body on the line.

Personally I want us to play a forward with a clearly defensive mindset, and I think the best option we have on our list right now for that is Zorko. Linc I think could also do the role but he's so strong overhead he can't help but go for marks. A defensive focused, crumb first small is something our forward line is missing IMO. Bailey is another option but I see him moving more through the wing and streaming through 50, and feel he would be a bit wasted in the role. Having a very skilled veteran like Zorko in the role is actually quite a luxary.

We have other users off half back and probably need to look more to the future in that spot, rather then trying to replace Rich with Zorko.
 

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Starcevich. Payne. Andrews.
Coleman. Adams. Wilmont.

McCluggage. Rayner. Berry.
McInerney. Dunkley. Neale.

Gunston. Hipwood. Baily.
Cameron. Daniher. McCarthy.

Zorko, Ashcroft, Rich, Robertson.
i like the team as you have included two of my favourite younger guys as well as Wilmont. Would also like to see Prior there but just don't know how he gets in at present. Also I like to see Lohmann at some stage in 2023 get a decent crack but I suppose at present behind Linc.

After offering Gardiner a 3, possibly 4 year contract I believe he is selected. If neither Lyons (who still has at least two years) and Gardiner (who has at least 3 years remaining) are not best 22 then could be some trade value at the end of 2023. Alternatively I feel if Dev, Payne and Prior have not cemented a spot during 2023 they will likely seek opportunities.

Good position for the club with such depth, and all things being equal, we should be in the GF next year.
 
I think that Rich is a bit underrated as far as his ability to defend. He doesn't have great pace and can be exposed in that regard, but if the ball is coming in high he puts himself in good positions to spoil and puts his body on the line.

Personally I want us to play a forward with a clearly defensive mindset, and I think the best option we have on our list right now for that is Zorko. Linc I think could also do the role but he's so strong overhead he can't help but go for marks. A defensive focused, crumb first small is something our forward line is missing IMO. Bailey is another option but I see him moving more through the wing and streaming through 50, and feel he would be a bit wasted in the role. Having a very skilled veteran like Zorko in the role is actually quite a luxary.

We have other users off half back and probably need to look more to the future in that spot, rather then trying to replace Rich with Zorko.
Our forwards can all kick goals sure but some of them aren't too hot at applying defensive pressure or gut running to defend space on any possible rebound. We don't have the mix quite right but it's hard to replace any of them because they're all good players.

It's hard not to agree with Browny on our lack of run around the ground and that's where we've been found out when blown away in finals.

We have guys with real pace like Cameron and Bailey but you wouldn't describe them as consistent runners over 4 quarters.

We haven't been able to sustainably improve our list in that area , Dunkley and Ashcroft will help , so the only present solution is to improve the guys we have , get them more accountable
 
Maybe on the bench. I'm not as hot on Dev as others. He had a good finals series, but was found out against Geelong. Hopefully he can find some form, but I still think he's behind Neale, Dunkley, McCluggage, Berry, Bailey and Rayner.

Odd comment. The entire team was smashed by Geelong. Dev applied more pressure than any other Lion on the field that day and could hold his head up high.
 
Updated best 23 post trade period:

FB: Darcy Wilmot - Harris Andrews - Brandon Starcevich

HB: Keidean Coleman - Marcus Adams - Jack Payne

R: Oscar McInerney - Lachie Neale - Josh Dunkley

C: Will Ashcroft - Hugh McCluggage - Dev Robertson

HF: Charlie Cameron - Eric Hipwood - Cam Rayner

FF: Jack Gunston - Joe Daniher - Zac Bailey

INT: Lincoln McCarthy - Jarrod Berry - Dayne Zorko - Callum Ah Chee

MED SUB: Darcy Fort (hoping they extend bench to 5 and do away with the silly med sub).

EMG: James Madden - Kai Lohmann - Rhys Mathieson - Jaxon Prior
Would like to see players rested so the team can be rotated a bit, like what Geelong did.

Depth
- Blake Coleman - Noah Answerth - Darcy Gardiner - Tom Fullarton - James Tunstill - Jarrod Lyons - Harry Sharp - Jaspa Fletcher

Midfield:
I would like to see Cam Rayner attend more centre bounces to provide a midfielder bull type.
I would also like Bailey provided with midfield minutes to utilise his speed.
I would occasionally provide McCarthy with midfield time as well. He is tough in the contest. In previous years has shown to be very capable. I am at a loss to the why he was not used more there this year.
Ashcroft - he is a midfielder. As such I would like him to start wing like McCluggage did early days, and not forward. I would give him some opportunity to play in the middle too (centre bounce) to see how he performs in terms of clearance work.

Daniel Rich:
Sad to leave him out.
His elite kicking will be missed.
He’s been loyal to the lions, and a warrior. Wrapped he earned an All Australian guernsey.
But Coleman is now our elite ball user from defence, and I feel Rich has now lost pace, and is looking a bit like Hodge in his final year.

James Madden:
I have chosen him as an emergency on leg speed rather than 2022 form in the reserves, and that I really would like to see some extra leg speed in our team; especially in defence. Wilmot adds a bit of pace.
Sometimes a player lifts and performs better at a higher level.
The bit Madden has played at senior level I thought he’d done OK. I think he’s been a bit stiff in terms of not being given any extended run to prove himself at senior level.

Jack Payne:
I much prefer him over Gardiner.
I think Payne has been very good when playing seniors, yet Fagan has preferred Gardiner and Adams over him.
Although a bit shaky at times, you often find a player becomes more reliable and confident after 50-100 games. I think he can develop into a very good defender. As strong as an ox with a booming kick and elite mark.
Think he could also ruck occasionally to provide Oscar with a rest.
 
I think Lyons is the crucial player for next year. If he recovers and goes back to his elite form of the previous two years we have great midfield depth. We were very thin this year.

I see Lyons (hopefully) being a new recruit for 2023.
 
I think Lyons is the crucial player for next year. If he recovers and goes back to his elite form of the previous two years we have great midfield depth. We were very thin this year.

I see Lyons (hopefully) being a new recruit for 2023.
hoping the same Rich and Zorko. All three down on form although kept there spots.
Hope more pressure now from guys behind. Dunkley be 22 and you say Ashcroft as well. Gunston swap for McStay
So two are out.
 
B: Jack Payne - Harris Andrews - Brandon Starcevich
HB: Keidean Coleman - Marcus Adams - Daniel Rich
C: Jarrod Berry - Josh Dunkley - Jaxon Prior
HF: Zac Bailey - Eric Hipwood - Cam Rayner
F: Charlie Cameron - Joe Daniher - Jack Gunston
R: Oscar McInerney - Lachie Neale - Hugh McCluggage

INT: Darcy Wilmot - Deven Robertson - Will Ashcroft - Lincoln McCarthy - Cal Ah Chee

Assuming medisub is scrapped in favour of 5th bench spot which seems to be a talking point picking up a bit more as of late, Ah Chee is the 5th bemch spot and would be the one to drop out to the sub role if the status quo is retained

the player im torn on is zorko - i think its for the best if we move past him but he would probably be a walk up start if available to the coaches. he does bring leadership which this team as it stands might lack but its time for our young future captains in mccluggage, berry and rayner to stand up and seize the reins for themselves

if joe cant do chop out ruck work a spot for fort probably needs to be found somewhere
 
Odd comment. The entire team was smashed by Geelong. Dev applied more pressure than any other Lion on the field that day and could hold his head up high.
I disagree, there were some games where he looked alright, but as a young player, he was very inconsistent. Our midfield is quite strong, I can't see a lot of list getting dropped to make space for Dev at this stage, especially with the recruitment of Ashcroft. Fox Footy didn't name him in our predicted best 22.
 
I disagree, there were some games where he looked alright, but as a young player, he was very inconsistent. Our midfield is quite strong, I can't see a lot of list getting dropped to make space for Dev at this stage, especially with the recruitment of Ashcroft. Fox Footy didn't name him in our predicted best 22.

How do you play consistently in seniors when your role isn't consistent?

His early games bounced from forward pressure role to bencher filling in where needed. In the finals he went from on ball to wing, and was actually quite consistent and performed well in both roles.

Agree to disagree, but think he showed in finals why he is best 22 and why the club rate him as such moving forward.
 

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First 22 in 2023

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