First 22 in 2023

[StevoJenkins]

i saw a couple of players went in for offseason surgery (Gardiner, Daniher, Berry) - did JL go in for any kind of surgery? I'm pretty sure daniher had some kind of operation for OP when he developed it at essendon

Fish mentioned somewhat recently that Lyons is getting groin surgery.

That being said, I still don't think, even with surgery, that Lyons makes the team next year - and if he does, he won't be there for long.

Our midfield is a problem, too many one-way runners who weren't putting on pressure or marking their man. Lyons doesn't solve that problem, neither does Dunkley on his own. Lyons can't run both ways, and although he does put on pressure, his lack of running means that once the ball is even minorly out of his reach, the rest of the defence/midfield is instantly put under pressure with a man down.

Matheison could at least keep up with a man, despite is inability to stay on the ground for long periods. Dev is like a defensive minded Berry, where he holds his man accountable. I'd rather have either of these players on the ground than Lyons.

 

[Nathan Barley]

We've replaced Lyons contested work in Dunkley who can also work hard defensively.

We don't need Lyons

And should be playing Dev ahead of Lyons and Zorko in the part time mid, part time forward role

 

[briztoon]

With Dunkley in, does Lyons retain his spot either way?

Yes 100%, providing he is fit.

That’s genuinely sad and concerning.

i saw a couple of players went in for offseason surgery (Gardiner, Daniher, Berry) - did JL go in for any kind of surgery? I'm pretty sure daniher had some kind of operation for OP when he developed it at essendon

They all went in for shoulder “clean ups” according to the club.

 

[rye]

They all went in for shoulder “clean ups” according to the club.

berry and gardiner probably didnt need anything too major

thought joe would be in for a bit more than a clean up

 

[Liam_The_Latvian]

Unfortunately, I think Lyons is cooked. He was slow to begin with, but last year was glacial. I watched him playing in the VFL, and it was not good. He had a set shot for goal from about 30m out, dead in front, and did not even make the distance. I think he will be the Robbo of 2023, and will eventually play reserves in favour of Ashcroft or Robertson.

 

[Mighty Lions]

Unfortunately, I think Lyons is cooked. He was slow to begin with, but last year was glacial. I watched him playing in the VFL, and it was not good. He had a set shot for goal from about 30m out, dead in front, and did not even make the distance. I think he will be the Robbo of 2023, and will eventually play reserves in favour of Ashcroft or Robertson.

I personally hope he proves you wrong. It's not new or surprising news that he played last season unfit and was carrying an injury that hindered his athletic ability to move freely around the ground. His performances up until he was injured was pretty good which people like yourself quickly forget. In my mind, JL will still play a part in our midfield that (with the new additions) will be the most lethal in the competition along with our forward line.

 

[Nathan Barley]

I personally hope he proves you wrong. It's not new or surprising news that he played last season unfit and was carrying an injury that hindered his athletic ability to move freely around the ground. His performances up until he was injured was pretty good which people like yourself quickly forget. In my mind, JL will still play a part in our midfield that (with the new additions) will be the most lethal in the competition along with our forward line.

The problem is what Lyons does well he has to do very well and consistently because what he doesn't do well he does very poorly.

Over rating our midfield big time. We've got it up to the standard of a top 8 team but there's still several better. Hopefully a more balanced midfield helps out our backline

 

[Liam_The_Latvian]

I personally hope he proves you wrong. It's not new or surprising news that he played last season unfit and was carrying an injury that hindered his athletic ability to move freely around the ground. His performances up until he was injured was pretty good which people like yourself quickly forget. In my mind, JL will still play a part in our midfield that (with the new additions) will be the most lethal in the competition along with our forward line.

I hope he proves me wrong as well, but we've seen this happen too many times before. I would love it if he recaptured his form and was a key part of our midfield. With Dev developing, getting Ashcroft and Dunkley, Berry having one of the best halves in finals history, and wanting to swing Bailey and Rayner more through the mids, I see him losing his spot this year. If Lyons does a complete 180, and plays until he's 34, I will be shocked and stunned.

 

[Mighty Lions]

The problem is what Lyons does well he has to do very well and consistently because what he doesn't do well he does very poorly.

Over rating our midfield big time. We've got it up to the standard of a top 8 team but there's still several better. Hopefully a more balanced midfield helps out our backline

His runs on the board should speak for their selves. 3rd in the BF in 2021 & runner up in 2020. You don't do "poorly" in some aspects like you say and finish in our B&F count like he has. Even his first few games of this year he was in our best regularly and polled 7 votes in the brownlow. (our 3rd best vote getter)

What part of our midfield consisting of Neale, Dunkley, McLuggage, Lyon, Rayner, Berry, Zorko, Bailey, Ashcroft, Big O is over rated?

I know its an opinion (the same as yours is) but I have no doubt our midfield is now up there with the best. "standard of a top 8 team" is dramatically under rating it 100%.

 

[Mighty Lions]

I hope he proves me wrong as well, but we've seen this happen too many times before. I would love it if he recaptured his form and was a key part of our midfield. With Dev developing, getting Ashcroft and Dunkley, Berry having one of the best halves in finals history, and wanting to swing Bailey and Rayner more through the mids, I see him losing his spot this year. If Lyons does a complete 180, and plays until he's 34, I will be shocked and stunned.

Here's hoping for shocked & stunned. I dont believe Dev will play much time in the midfield unless its a tagging role. Seeing him line up on the wing is more probable in my opinion. Berry playing "one of the best halves in finals history" doesn't give him credit in my book. Sure his second half was great but his first half was below average so it evens things out when rating his overall game on the day in my opinion. In saying that, I would think Berry should play a bigger part of our midfield in 2023.

 

[Nathan Barley]

His runs on the board should speak for their selves. 3rd in the BF in 2021 & runner up in 2020. You don't do "poorly" in some aspects like you say and finish in our B&F count like he has. Even his first few games of this year he was in our best regularly and polled 7 votes in the brownlow. (our 3rd best vote getter)

What part of our midfield consisting of Neale, Dunkley, McLuggage, Lyon, Rayner, Berry, Zorko, Bailey, Ashcroft, Big O is over rated?

I know its an opinion (the same as yours is) but I have no doubt our midfield is now up there with the best. "standard of a top 8 team" is dramatically under rating it 100%.

Yes you do. Clearly. Like how you get delisted by a struggling club for having poor areas of your game

First 3 mids are guns and the rest are either over the hill or far from proven midfield contributors. Oscar isn't in the top 10 rucks in the AFL

A few other top 8 teams have added to their midfields as well and would expect improvements

 

[rye]

Yes you do. Clearly

First 3 mids are guns and the rest are either over the hill or far from proven midfield contributors. Oscar isn't in the top 10 rucks in the AFL

A few other top 8 teams have added to their midfields as well and would expect improvements

bit harsh

last season i would only really have gawn and witts clearly ahead of him, and maybe darcy slightly ahead. lot of the elite rucks got injured though.

 

[dlanod]

bit harsh

last season i would only really have gawn and witts clearly ahead of him, and maybe darcy slightly ahead. lot of the elite rucks got injured though.

People continuously overestimate how many good rucks there are in the AFL. Oscar isn't in the top echelon (and arguably there's less than five there these days) but there's a bunch below that that are all good enough and he's firmly in that category.

 

[Nathan Barley]

I'd put him below Gawn, Witts, Darcy, Grundy, Hickey, O'Brien, English, Draper, Goldstein and Marshall

 

[briztoon]

I'd put him below Gawn, Witts, Darcy, Grundy, Hickey, O'Brien, English, Draper, Goldstein and Marshall

Jackson.

 

[Mighty Lions]

Yes you do. Clearly. Like how you get delisted by a struggling club for having poor areas of your game

First 3 mids are guns and the rest are either over the hill or far from proven midfield contributors. Oscar isn't in the top 10 rucks in the AFL

A few other top 8 teams have added to their midfields as well and would expect improvements

He didn't get delisted "by a struggling club for having poor areas of your game". Please explain why you think that was the case? It's pretty clear by your comments you don't rate him as your bias is obvious. Big O is in the top 10 in my opinion but only just. In saying that, 1 player isn't the midfield.

Give me some examples of the superior midfield teams...interesting conversation.

 

[Nathan Barley]

He didn't get delisted "by a struggling club for having poor areas of your game". Please explain why you think that was the case? It's pretty clear by your comments you don't rate him as your bias is obvious. Big O is in the top 10 in my opinion but only just. In saying that, 1 player isn't the midfield.

Give me some examples of the superior midfield teams...interesting conversation.

He was delisted by Gold Coast

Freo, Geelong, Melbourne, the Bulldogs and even teams like Collingwood, St Kilda, Carlton and Richmond you could argue have stronger midfields

 

[Mighty Lions]

He was delisted by Gold Coast

Freo, Geelong, Melbourne, the Bulldogs and even teams like Collingwood, St Kilda, Carlton and Richmond you could argue have stronger midfields

Yes he was delisted by Gold Coast. Do you know why or are you assuming?

Pfffttt to your examples of a better midfield.

 

[rye]

1. Melbourne - Gawn + Grundy / Oliver / Petracca / Viney / Brayshaw/ Langdon / Hunter
2. Carlton - Pittonett + De Koning / Cripps / Walsh / Hewett / Kennedy / Cerra / Acres (Docherty as well?)
3. Footscray - English + Lobb / Bontempelli / Macrae / Liberatore / Smith / Treloar / McLean
4. Brisbane - McInerney + Fort / Neale / McCluggage / Dunkley / Robertson / Berry / Ashcroft

i can see brisbane being better than footscray and carlton midfields next year (footscray always seemed to play lesser than the sum of its parts to me) but not melbourne's

 

[JasRulz63]

He didn't get delisted "by a struggling club for having poor areas of your game". Please explain why you think that was the case? It's pretty clear by your comments you don't rate him as your bias is obvious. Big O is in the top 10 in my opinion but only just. In saying that, 1 player isn't the midfield.

Give me some examples of the superior midfield teams...interesting conversation.

Thinking about next year, I think Melbourne have clearly the best midfield in the competition on paper - Gawn, Grundy, Oliver, Petracca, Brayshaw, Viney, Harmes, Langdon, Hunter
Luckily for the competition, their key forward/forward structure situation is close to diabolical.

I think we're in the pack behind them with (in no particular order):
Bulldogs - English, Bont, Libba, Macrae, Smith, Treloar
Carlton - Pittonet, De Koning, Cripps, Walsh, Hewett, Cerra, Kennedy, Acres
Fremantle - Darcy, Jackson, Brayshaw, Serong, Brodie, Fyfe, O'Meara
Brisbane - Oscar, Neale, Dunkley, McCluggage, Berry, Ashcroft, Lyons, Robertson

I then would have Richmond or Geelong in the mix, either in the same tier or the one below it depending on how I think the older guys will go.

I think without Dunkley (and to a lesser extent Ashcroft) and considering the drop off our Lyons, our midfield based on this year was around mid table (around 6th-7th).

On the Oscar discussion, I think he's probably in the bottom half of starting ruckman in the competition, but I don't think there's a huge difference between the 6th and 18th starting ruck in the competition so where he sits in that pack doesn't matter as much.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Yes he was delisted by Gold Coast. Do you know why or are you assuming?

Pfffttt to your examples of a better midfield.

I don't think assuming someone being delisted from a struggling team because there are weaknesses in his game is a wild assumption.

But of course just talk biased rubbish without anything to back it up

 

[Dalions]

I don't think assuming someone being delisted from a struggling team because there are weaknesses in his game is a wild assumption.

But of course just talk biased rubbish without anything to back it up

Lyons was also coming off a year with a dodgy ankle when being delisted by the Suns.
For his first couple of years here his defensive running wasn’t as big an issue because he was fit.
I do think he tailed off in the second half of last year, started the year ok this year but then he stopped (literally).
If and when fit, I can see him being in the best 22 next year if he is at a stage where he can run both ways.

I think we have all forgotten how much of an asset he was when he first came. He was a good part of the reason why we climbed the ladder so quickly.
I for one hope he can get back to his best, because if he can we will have a really strong midfield set up, that is for sure.
Hopefully with Dunkley coming in and his end to the year last year (being dropped) his motivation levels will be high enough to get himself to where he needs to be to regain his spot in the side.

It is a big year for him, to say the least.

 

[dlanod]

I'd put him below Gawn, Witts, Darcy, Grundy,

That's where I'd draw the line as better all round players.

Hickey, O'Brien, English, Draper, Goldstein and Marshall

Jackson.

All of those have different strengths and weaknesses without being a complete dominant ruck, same as Oscar.

 

[briztoon]

Yes he was delisted by Gold Coast. Do you know why or are you assuming?

Pfffttt to your examples of a better midfield.

Because he told Stewie Dew to go and * **** while sitting on the beach. He may or may not have had a beer in his hand at the time.

 

[Nathan Barley]

That's where I'd draw the line as better all round players.




All of those have different strengths and weaknesses without being a complete dominant ruck, same as Oscar.

I'd agree but I think they've played more influential games than Oscar