first test of the aussie summer 23/24

[Coops93]

Definitely retiring, he has made comment a few times how him and Khawaja have made a agreement they won't leave Australia in the lurch which may indicate Khawaja plans on going on.

Warner has been putting Aus in the lurch with his form already

 

[Coops93]

He might, but I doubt they would select him.

However, at this point I see no reason for him to do that, as it would most likely lead to him getting heave ho.

Can anyone point me to an article where he demands selection until the Sydney test, rather than him just stating that he will retire after it?

I think all he has done is say he will retire after it.

However, you can't deny that puts pressure on the selectors to give him the farewell tour. Dropping him after the first or 2nd test now will come across as somewhat petty and the selectors will know that so there's pressure to pick him throughout, regardless of form - and that's where Mitch's point r.e. Bailey being to soon out of retirement and too close to these players is a valid question. He played plenty of ODI cricket and some test cricket with Warner, even captained him, so dropping someone that close won't be easy for G.

Again though he undercuts his own point by going too far with it.

 

[Jim Prideaux]

I think all he has done is say he will retire after it.

However, you can't deny that puts pressure on the selectors to give him the farewell tour. Dropping him after the first or 2nd test now will come across as somewhat petty and the selectors will know that so there's pressure to pick him throughout, regardless of form - and that's where Mitch's point r.e. Bailey being to soon out of retirement and too close to these players is a valid question. He played plenty of ODI cricket and some test cricket with Warner, even captained him, so dropping someone that close won't be easy for G.

Again though he undercuts his own point by going too far with it.

Here’s what he actually said -
I probably owe it to myself and my family – if I can score runs here and continue to play back in Australia – I can definitely say I won’t be playing that West Indies series.
“If I can get through this (WTC final and ensuing Ashes campaign) and make the Pakistan series I will definitely finish up then.”

Now you can argue given he’s still in the team it may put some perceived Pressure on the selectors, however, at no point did he demand to be selected for any of the previous series, he just said he wouldn’t retire.

The selectors, in their wisdom, have decided he was the best option to get us through to this point, I’m not sure I agree, but it’s hard to argue that there has been a stand out candidate demanding selection ahead of him.

 

[Coops93]

Here’s what he actually said -
I probably owe it to myself and my family – if I can score runs here and continue to play back in Australia – I can definitely say I won’t be playing that West Indies series.
“If I can get through this (WTC final and ensuing Ashes campaign) and make the Pakistan series I will definitely finish up then.”

Now you can argue given he’s still in the team it may put some perceived Pressure on the selectors, however, at no point did he demand to be selected for any of the previous series, he just said he wouldn’t retire.

The selectors, in their wisdom, have decided he was the best option to get us through to this point, I’m not sure I agree, but it’s hard to argue that there has been a stand out candidate demanding selection ahead of him.

I didn't claim he demanded it and I also didn't claim he should be dropped or that he shouldn't be picked.

I think he should be picked for the first game at least, however beyond that I'm not convinced he should be, if he doesn't perform of course. Personally I'd give him match 1, and based on returns I'd drop him after that. However, given the perceived pressure his desire puts on selectors I don't think they will drop him.

 

[JackOutback]

I can see the selectors just going for the devil they know, tbh. Because none of the next lot are banging the door down, really. Bancroft's two hundreds from nine shield innings this summer, with a highest of 122, is nice, but not mind-blowing.

To be fair, it's also a 91 and two fifties. Five scores over 50 and two over 100 from nine innings is not mind-blowing but it's better than nice.

 

[Jim Prideaux]

I didn't claim he demanded it and that doesn't change anything about what I said. I also didn't claim he should be dropped or that he shouldn't be picked.

I didn’t claim you did, but a few on here and in the media have.

In fact, I didn’t claim you said anything, I made a reference to the pressure the selectors may or may not feel they are under. You said ‘you can’t deny that puts pressure on the selectors…’, I merely suggested if there is any pressure it is largely of their own making, with added pressure from there not being an obvious replacement at this stage imo.

 

[Big Bryza]

Just on Bancroft people seem to forget his article from a couple of years ago basically alleging the bowlers knew about the sandpaper plan, considering Cummins is now captain and the response from all the bowers at the time, it would be hard to imagine they'd be overly keen on letting him back into the fold. Personally think Renshaw would be better suited and he is younger.

Of course the bowlers knew about sandpaper.

Bancroft is miles ahead of Renshaw.

 

[Tugga27]

https://www.news.com.au/sport/cricket/mitchell-johnson-reveals-david-warner-text-that-sparked-furious-column/news-story/54b6692e51fbafeee4ac23f6eed78850

Lol handbags at 10 paces.

I think Mitch started this bonfire by attacking Candice 8 months ago.

You can argue she is a dribbler but Warner has every right to be an angry at an ex-team mate attacking his wife in an article no matter what you think of her.

What did mitch expect that Warner wouldn't send him a text.

I think we are seeing what a prima doma Mitchell Johnson really is.

If he stuck with the form angle no one would have batted an eyelid.

Did he really "attack" her or just make what seemed like a reasonable comment about her defending Warner?

 

[Westend]

Here’s what he actually said -
I probably owe it to myself and my family – if I can score runs here and continue to play back in Australia – I can definitely say I won’t be playing that West Indies series.
“If I can get through this (WTC final and ensuing Ashes campaign) and make the Pakistan series I will definitely finish up then.”

Now you can argue given he’s still in the team it may put some perceived Pressure on the selectors, however, at no point did he demand to be selected for any of the previous series, he just said he wouldn’t retire.

The selectors, in their wisdom, have decided he was the best option to get us through to this point, I’m not sure I agree, but it’s hard to argue that there has been a stand out candidate demanding selection ahead of him.

Well to be fair to Bancroft he is leading the Sheffield shield runs for the past two years

945 runs last year ave of 59 this year 512 at 56

Sandpaper gate or not he is scoring runs and Punter who is regarded him as one of the best cricketing minds in the country has stated he is the leading candidate..

if you want to go down that route of course ....

 

[Coops93]

You said ‘you can’t deny that puts pressure on the selectors…’, I merely suggested if there is any pressure it is largely of their own making, with added pressure from there not being an obvious replacement at this stage imo.

Agreed and that's my point.

That's where Johnsons queries in his article were valid, but unfortunately spoiled by his personal venom. Particularly around Bailey, and whether he's too soon out of retirement and too close to this team to be head selector, given he's played with and captained most of the guys he's now selecting.

I'm not sure I see an issue just yet tbh, but it's a valid question and perhaps could be why Warner has been given such a looooong leash. He's been a bad test opener for years now, but is essentially guaranteed the next 3 tests when he really doesn't deserve it at all.

 

[Coops93]

Well to be fair to Bancroft he is leading the Sheffield shield runs for past two years

945 runs last year ave of 59 this year 512 at 56

Sandpaper gate or not he is scoring runs and Punter who is regarded him as one of the best cricketing minds in the country has stated he is the leading candidate..

if you want to go down that route of course ....

I don't get those saying no one else is standing out or banging the door down, I mean... 1500 runs in a season and a half at over 55 is pretty bloody good. If it were anyone else except Bancroft I think there'd be much more pressure to get him in the team.

 

[Coops93]

To be fair, it's also a 91 and two fifties. Five scores over 50 and two over 100 from nine innings is not mind-blowing but it's better than nice.

Over 50 in better than every 2nd innings as an opener is pretty elite tbf

 

[Jim Prideaux]

Well to be fair to Bancroft he is leading the Sheffield shield runs for the past two years

945 runs last year ave of 59 this year 512 at 56

Sandpaper gate or not he is scoring runs and Punter who is regarded him as one of the best cricketing minds in the country has stated he is the leading candidate..

if you want to go down that route of course ....

I’m agnostic toward Bancroft, but see him more as a replacement for Ussie.

However, this time last year the main issue was that all 3 ‘next cabs’ had issues - Bancroft and Harris shield wise were much of muchness, Bancrofts fielding was better but his exposed county form was middling, Harris had a better county record but was poor in the field and hadn’t shown enough at test level, and Renshaw wasn’t dominating in any position he played.

The selectors needed to pick an opening partnership for the upcoming tours, and I think they blinked. I certainly wouldn’t have been annoyed had they gone with Bancroft, nor would I have been annoyed with Harris (unlike plenty on this forum), but realistically they needed to pick one to play 3 or so tests in Aus and stick with them, they were unwilling.

 

[Jim Prideaux]

Agreed and that's my point.

That's where Johnsons queries in his article were valid, but unfortunately spoiled by his personal venom. Particularly around Bailey, and whether he's too soon out of retirement and too close to this team to be head selector, given he's played with and captained most of the guys he's now selecting.

I'm not sure I see an issue just yet tbh, but it's a valid question and perhaps could be why Warner has been given such a looooong leash. He's been a bad test opener for years now, but is essentially guaranteed the next 3 tests when he really doesn't deserve it at all.

It’s a valid question sure, but a valid response is something along the lines of what Brettig said, just because previous selectors acted one way, doesn’t mean current selectors should do the same.

 

[Bletch]

Agreed and that's my point.

That's where Johnsons queries in his article were valid, but unfortunately spoiled by his personal venom. Particularly around Bailey, and whether he's too soon out of retirement and too close to this team to be head selector, given he's played with and captained most of the guys he's now selecting.

I'm not sure I see an issue just yet tbh, but it's a valid question and perhaps could be why Warner has been given such a looooong leash. He's been a bad test opener for years now, but is essentially guaranteed the next 3 tests when he really doesn't deserve it at all.

Yup. Really, should have been dumped last summer, which would have given us time to try out a new partner for Khawaja in preparation for the Ashes. But that didn't happen. And still, even then, shouldn't have been picked for the Ashes tour. Has been exploited for years by the English openers. Warner plays all 5 matches, picks up a couple of 50s, but has a pretty miserable series averaging just 28, and we see the same old flaws bringing about his downfall. In contrast, Khawaja is our best-performed batsman.

And here we are again. An opportunity to give Bancroft a good run at it before inevitably, we'll see the end of Khawaja. But no, Warner is still picked. Makes zero sense.

We have a clear replacement option available for Warner. Bancroft, especially as a right-hander should partner well with Khawaja. Who comes in when Khawaja retires will be the issue. Really hope Uzzie can stay around long enough for us to get someone else established, whether that's Bancroft or another. But age can catch up really quickly on a top-order batsman. What we should be trying to avoid is the situation where we have two openers trying to establish themselves at the same time.

 

[thejester]

I think Tim Paine put it well.

His article does ask valid questions that should be thought/talked about. However, he gets so personal that it undercuts his own article and makes the discussion about Mitch and the article itself rather than the questions raised in the article.

It's a shame because he did ask the questions that most people are thinking about Warner and his farewell tour that no one except he and Candace want, but then goes too far and loses credibility.

I'd only add that he seems to have some weird blind spots about his own behaviour. Saying he'd prefer to have direct conversations with Warner and Bailey rather than exchanging texts - they might have been thinking the same thing as they read the column?

 

[Greendogg5]

I wonder with all this controversy around his selection, whether at the end of the Sydney Test, Warner turns around to the selectors and says he wants to continue playing test cricket. His recent posts on Instagram seem to feel like he’s out to prove everyone wrong that he still has it. Certainly would make things awkward.

Would be interesting if he absolutely dines out against Pakistan and thinks hey I'm back

 

[big_e]

To be fair, it's also a 91 and two fifties. Five scores over 50 and two over 100 from nine innings is not mind-blowing but it's better than nice.

It's a long way short of the 228* he made when picked first time around. He was in good form but that made it undeniable.

 

[big_e]

Did he really "attack" her or just make what seemed like a reasonable comment about her defending Warner?

Her comments were a total nothingburger: "I think my husband is still good enough to play for Australia." Well, woop de doo.

As for Johnson's column, I just re-read it. He could have left out that whole paragraph and still made the same point.

 

[Rabish Binney]

Would be interesting if he absolutely dines out against Pakistan and thinks hey I'm back

It could very well happen.......

 

[The 747]

Well to be fair to Bancroft he is leading the Sheffield shield runs for the past two years

945 runs last year ave of 59 this year 512 at 56

Sandpaper gate or not he is scoring runs and Punter who is regarded him as one of the best cricketing minds in the country has stated he is the leading candidate..

if you want to go down that route of course ....

He's next cab off the rank, don't think there is any doubt about that. I have my doubts but he's earned a shot.

 

[Tugga27]

Her comments were a total nothingburger: "I think my husband is still good enough to play for Australia." Well, woop de doo.

As for Johnson's column, I just re-read it. He could have left out that whole paragraph and still made the same point.

Not quite.


She (Warner) then politely bristled when it was put to her by Fox League commentator Dan Ginnane that he needed to start the campaign well.


“Absolutely he does. But so does the whole team,” she said.

“If Dave doesn’t perform in that first Test, who do they bring in that’s better?”

“His form wasn’t great that last Ashes. Stuart Broad had his number I think ten times. So it didn’t look good for him. And he hasn’t performed well over there in the past.

“But who do you put in?”

MJ responded to that with

“Her loyalty might be admirable but it was all a bit weird and cringey when she said if Dave doesn’t perform in that first Test, who do they bring in that’s better? “

I hate that argument. If players were only judged on their previous achievements then Dennis Lillee would still be opening the bowling for Australia and Ricky Ponting would be batting at No. 3.”

If Candice is going to put herself out there, Dave must put up with any criticism that comes her way and not just go on the attack.

 

[JackOutback]

He's next cab off the rank, don't think there is any doubt about that. I have my doubts but he's earned a shot.

I have doubts about all the contenders. I have fears that Bancroft and Harris are merely very good first class players unable to make the step up to the next level. If given a good run at it, I probably think Renshaw is the most likely to succeed. But Bancroft has earnt the first crack, others need to stand up and fight for Khawaja's impending spot.

I'm not convinced there's any other openers really putting their hand up so unless we want a future where we are often 2-very little, we may need to get creative with the batting order any way.

 

[The 747]

I have doubts about all the contenders. I have fears that Bancroft and Harris are merely very good first class players unable to make the step up to the next level. If given a good run at it, I probably think Renshaw is the most likely to succeed. But Bancroft has earnt the first crack, others need to stand up and fight for Khawaja's impending spot.

I'm not convinced there's any other openers really putting their hand up so unless we want a future where we are often 2-very little, we may need to get creative with the batting order any way.

Agree with all that, the cupboard looks pretty bare. Perhaps an opportunity for someone to stake a claim in the second half of the Shield.

 

[big_e]

Not quite.


She (Warner) then politely bristled when it was put to her by Fox League commentator Dan Ginnane that he needed to start the campaign well.


“Absolutely he does. But so does the whole team,” she said.

“If Dave doesn’t perform in that first Test, who do they bring in that’s better?”

“His form wasn’t great that last Ashes. Stuart Broad had his number I think ten times. So it didn’t look good for him. And he hasn’t performed well over there in the past.

“But who do you put in?”

MJ responded to that with

“Her loyalty might be admirable but it was all a bit weird and cringey when she said if Dave doesn’t perform in that first Test, who do they bring in that’s better? “

I hate that argument. If players were only judged on their previous achievements then Dennis Lillee would still be opening the bowling for Australia and Ricky Ponting would be batting at No. 3.”

If Candice is going to put herself out there, Dave must put up with any criticism that comes her way and not just go on the attack.

True.

And if Johnson wants to have a crack, he should expect a few in return.