first test of the aussie summer 23/24

[Reg Grundy35]

How obviously damaged was ball if the umps let them keep using same ball? Can't have been that bad I mean I'm sure others knew but your arguments not a good one when you remember umps didn't even change tampered ball.

p.s. how incompetent do you have to be to use sandpaper on a ball and do such a poor job they don't even need to get a new ball after you are caught, Bancroft probably deserved the ban just for being that comically bad at it.

its hilarious watching people try to downplay the sandpapering of the ball in an international test match. There has never been a more overt act of cheating in the sport in my opinion. The other stain on the sport is they let Warner and Smith back to continue to play and attempted to rebrand them as national heroes. If sandpaper is a small discretion on a level with boiled lollies - where is your threshold for "too far"? A knife, a file, an angle grinder? Cut the crap - it was a disgrace. And Johnson is right - the ACB have been called out turd polishing.

 

[Cameron_Jezza]

I am not a big fan of David Warner, but Mitchell Johnson shouldn't be carrying on like this, he is being too aggressive and sounds like an attention seeking kid.

 

[frankrizzo]

its hilarious watching people try to downplay the sandpapering of the ball in an international test match. There has never been a more overt act of cheating in the sport in my opinion. The other stain on the sport is they let Warner and Smith back to continue to play and attempted to rebrand them as national heroes. If sandpaper is a small discretion on a level with boiled lollies - where is your threshold for "too far"? A knife, a file, an angle grinder? Cut the crap - it was a disgrace. And Johnson is right - the ACB have been called out turd polishing.

faf used a zipper on the ball for christ sake its same thing and that was second time getting caught cheating and nobody in cricket world gave two shits, the only reason this blew up was that aussies are so far up their own arses when it comes to sport and holding and flexing some sense of moral superiority that they almost come across like religious fanatics.

 

[Jamurp]

Is Warner more popular in India than Australia now surely? Great cricketer, his lack of humility is a downside, he would’ve been popular in the older Australian sides.

Who really care about his farewell tour honestly, will no doubt score tons against crap attacks, more of a reflection of the lack of competitiveness in test cricket.

Still one our best openers ever, wouldn’t have minded seeing someone else get a go this summer though.

 

[big_e]

Warner's manager, there's still a bit to play out here.

Johnson reveals spark that ignited feud with Warner, and swipes 'childish' Bailey over comments

Former Australian Test star Mitchell Johnson says a column he wrote in April this year sparked an ugly feud with former teammate David Warner.

www.abc.net.au

Roughly the 5,000th time James Erskine has said this.

 

[burge13]

Johnson dropped as Triple M commentator. Go against CA at your peril, there's a reason no one is publicly calling out the laughable ongoing selection of Warner...

Under the table agreement he is owed for the sandpaper overreaction

 

[Iceman!]

Johnson dropped as Triple M commentator. Go against CA at your peril, there's a reason no one is publicly calling out the laughable ongoing selection of Warner...

Under the table agreement he is owed for the sandpaper overreaction

Plenty of discussion about it for well over a year now what do you even mean?

 

[Iceman!]

its hilarious watching people try to downplay the sandpapering of the ball in an international test match. There has never been a more overt act of cheating in the sport in my opinion. The other stain on the sport is they let Warner and Smith back to continue to play and attempted to rebrand them as national heroes. If sandpaper is a small discretion on a level with boiled lollies - where is your threshold for "too far"? A knife, a file, an angle grinder? Cut the crap - it was a disgrace. And Johnson is right - the ACB have been called out turd polishing.

They copped the most significant punishment in the history of the sport by an absolute country mile. They did their time and then some. Crazy people are still going on about it.

 

[burge13]

Plenty of discussion about it for well over a year now what do you even mean?

Not many prominent media people calling for the obvious dropping due to form is there?

 

[BStaff17]

Johnson dropped as Triple M commentator. Go against CA at your peril, there's a reason no one is publicly calling out the laughable ongoing selection of Warner...

Under the table agreement he is owed for the sandpaper overreaction

Maybe some ex players in the commentary don't want to work with him there.

Mitch seems to be a divisive character and a bit of sook.

He has basically had a personal crack at half the players still playing that he played with.

Michael Clarke & Mitch Johnson are probably 2 former players most that played with they couldn't give a stuff about anymore.

 

[The 747]

They copped the most significant punishment in the history of the sport by an absolute country mile. They did their time and then some. Crazy people are still going on about it.

It's one of the most significant incidents in the history of Australian cricket and the person responsible is widely disliked and still in the team without meriting a place. Of course people will talk about it.

 

[Iceman!]

It's one of the most significant incidents in the history of Australian cricket and the person responsible is widely disliked and still in the team without meriting a place. Of course people will talk about it.

He has merit, all time great opener with good white ball form, and no stand out options to replace him. Just because you disagree doesn't mean it doesn't have any.

Also he was punished, heavily. The incident was half a decade ago and has no relevance to anything happening today.

 

[Coops93]

Warner's manager, there's still a bit to play out here.

Johnson reveals spark that ignited feud with Warner, and swipes 'childish' Bailey over comments

Former Australian Test star Mitchell Johnson says a column he wrote in April this year sparked an ugly feud with former teammate David Warner.

www.abc.net.au

The bowling unit joined together and strongly refuted Bancrofts suggestions they must have know something was up, I wonder if they're brave enough to do the same to Warner by proxy of his manager.

Doubt it. It's brave to stand up to the quiet fella that's out of the squad... but when it comes to the combustible Warner we'd best keep him happy.

 

[Coops93]

Maybe he wasn’t.
Starc and Hazlewood were his seniors by a good stretch at that stage of their careers; Cummins hadn’t been back in the Australian side all that long when the ball-tampering occurred.

If it comes out that Cummins contributed to the cheating then so be it; he can face the music like anybody else.

But until that revelation we have little reason to suspect a (then) junior fast bowler with a subsequent track record of possessing a moral compass would inevitably be caught up in such a practice.

Of our bowlers the only one it really would have impacted is Starc. Cummins and Hazelwood aren't really swing bowlers so it wouldn't have impacted them much, Starc is the only one who looks to swing it. Not to say they wouldn't have noticed, but I don't see a reason for them to be involved or encourage it, whereas Starc would definitely benefit from it. Post sandpaper his figures make for interesting reading, though not entirely accurate.

 

[big_e]

Of our bowlers the only one it really would have impacted is Starc. Cummins and Hazelwood aren't really swing bowlers so it wouldn't have impacted them much, Starc is the only one who looks to swing it. Not to say they wouldn't have noticed, but I don't see a reason for them to be involved or encourage it, whereas Starc would definitely benefit from it and the stats back that up. Post sandpaper his figures make for interesting reading...

Mitchell Starc pre-Sandpaper: 182 wickets at 28.17, ER of 3.42, SR of 49.3

Mitchell Starc post-Sandpaper: 151 wickets at 26.92, ER of 3.36, SR of 48.0

His performances have improved slightly, but I don't think that's significant enough to make any point at all.

 

[eth-dog]

Mitchell Starc pre-Sandpaper: 182 wickets at 28.17, ER of 3.42, SR of 49.3

Mitchell Starc post-Sandpaper: 151 wickets at 26.92, ER of 3.36, SR of 48.0

His performances have improved slightly, but I don't think that's significant enough to make any point at all.

He was implying that it would be the opposite

 

[corbies]

How obviously damaged was ball if the umps let them keep using same ball? Can't have been that bad I mean I'm sure others knew but your arguments not a good one when you remember umps didn't even change tampered ball.

p.s. how incompetent do you have to be to use sandpaper on a ball and do such a poor job they don't even need to get a new ball after you are caught, Bancroft probably deserved the ban just for being that comically bad at it.

Or how rampant was ball tampering in international cricket that a ball like that was just the norm?

There was an arms race of ball tampering that started some time around Englands tour of South Africa in 2009/10. Ball tampering was obviously happening before then but that was when De Villiers publicly called England out on it.

England accused of persistent cheating during Test series by South Africa

AB de Villiers said that England's cricketers were guilty of working on the ball at the second Test in Durban as well as in Cape Town

www.theguardian.com

I don't think it was a coincidence that not long after that South Africa started getting caught doing it in different ways (first Philander scratching, then Du Plessis zipper then Du Plessis lollies) under 3 different captains (Smith, Amla, Du Plessis). Reading between the lines they decided as a team to try different dark art ways to get the ball to reverse.

During that time Warner was sure South Africa were ball tampering and accused De Villiers publicly of doing so.

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I think that was the catalyst for Australia to look at ways to really ramp it up which they did because they're not very bright and everyone from Sutherland to Lehmann were telling them to win at all costs.

Reverse swing numbers have completely fallen away for all nations since that event. I don't think that is a coincidence. Not that anyone was stupid enough to ball tamper as egregiously as Australia did.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Or how rampant was ball tampering in international cricket that a ball like that was just the norm?

There was an arms race of ball tampering that started some time around Englands tour of South Africa in 2009/10. Ball tampering was obviously happening before then but that was when De Villiers publicly called England out on it.

England accused of persistent cheating during Test series by South Africa

AB de Villiers said that England's cricketers were guilty of working on the ball at the second Test in Durban as well as in Cape Town

www.theguardian.com

I don't think it was a coincidence that not long after that South Africa started getting caught doing it in different ways (first Philander scratching, then Du Plessis zipper then Du Plessis lollies) under 3 different captains (Smith, Amla, Du Plessis). Reading between the lines they decided as a team to try different dark art ways to get the ball to reverse.

During that time Warner was sure South Africa were ball tampering and accused De Villiers publicly of doing so.

No Cookies | Daily Telegraph

No Cookies

www.dailytelegraph.com.au

I think that was the catalyst for Australia to look at ways to really ramp it up which they did because they're not very bright and everyone from Sutherland to Lehmann were telling them to win at all costs.

Reverse swing numbers have completely fallen away for all nations since that event. I don't think that is a coincidence. Not that anyone was stupid enough to ball tamper as egregiously as Australia did.

Sachin was also caught out tampering with the ball but the BCCI had a hissy fit and despite the damning evidence, the ICC caved in to their masters

 

[big_e]

Johnson dropped as Triple M commentator. Go against CA at your peril, there's a reason no one is publicly calling out the laughable ongoing selection of Warner...

Under the table agreement he is owed for the sandpaper overreaction

Not entirely true, according to this article from about an hour ago:

Mitchell Johnson and David Warner remain on a collision course in Perth with confirmation from his management on Wednesday that the fast-bowling great would be calling the first Test for the station.

Johnson had said earlier in the week he would be part of the Triple M team in Perth.

“I will be doing some commentary for Triple M in the first Test,” Johnson said on his podcast The Mitchell Johnson Show with journalist Bharat Sundaresan.

Johnson and Warner on collision course: Ex-bowler to call first Test in Perth

Mitchell Johnson and David Warner remain on a collision course in Perth with confirmation from his management that the fast-bowling great would be calling the first Test.

www.smh.com.au

 

[Coops93]

Mitchell Starc pre-Sandpaper: 182 wickets at 28.17, ER of 3.42, SR of 49.3

Mitchell Starc post-Sandpaper: 151 wickets at 26.92, ER of 3.36, SR of 48.0

His performances have improved slightly, but I don't think that's significant enough to make any point at all.

He's rebounded since but in the period immediately post it was worse.

His next 7 tests yielded a S/R of over 70 & average of 38

 

[burge13]

I

Not entirely true, according to this article from about an hour ago:

Johnson and Warner on collision course: Ex-bowler to call first Test in Perth

Mitchell Johnson and David Warner remain on a collision course in Perth with confirmation from his management that the fast-bowling great would be calling the first Test.

www.smh.com.au

saw earlier he wasn't listed as one of MMM 18 commentators? Weird. Not that fussed tbh, dont listen to MMM for cricket

 

[corbies]

its hilarious watching people try to downplay the sandpapering of the ball in an international test match. There has never been a more overt act of cheating in the sport in my opinion. The other stain on the sport is they let Warner and Smith back to continue to play and attempted to rebrand them as national heroes. If sandpaper is a small discretion on a level with boiled lollies - where is your threshold for "too far"? A knife, a file, an angle grinder? Cut the crap - it was a disgrace. And Johnson is right - the ACB have been called out turd polishing.

I'd argue two teams using cut up bottle tops and (claiming) the umpires were fully aware of it and ignored it was slightly more overt.

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

Although second most overt cheating in a sport still not a great thing to be associated with.

Then again is spot and match fixing cheating? If so there'd be several more overt instances of that in the sports history.

 

[BStaff17]

Or how rampant was ball tampering in international cricket that a ball like that was just the norm?

There was an arms race of ball tampering that started some time around Englands tour of South Africa in 2009/10. Ball tampering was obviously happening before then but that was when De Villiers publicly called England out on it.

England accused of persistent cheating during Test series by South Africa

AB de Villiers said that England's cricketers were guilty of working on the ball at the second Test in Durban as well as in Cape Town

www.theguardian.com

I don't think it was a coincidence that not long after that South Africa started getting caught doing it in different ways (first Philander scratching, then Du Plessis zipper then Du Plessis lollies) under 3 different captains (Smith, Amla, Du Plessis). Reading between the lines they decided as a team to try different dark art ways to get the ball to reverse.

During that time Warner was sure South Africa were ball tampering and accused De Villiers publicly of doing so.

No Cookies | Daily Telegraph

No Cookies

www.dailytelegraph.com.au

I think that was the catalyst for Australia to look at ways to really ramp it up which they did because they're not very bright and everyone from Sutherland to Lehmann were telling them to win at all costs.

Reverse swing numbers have completely fallen away for all nations since that event. I don't think that is a coincidence. Not that anyone was stupid enough to ball tamper as egregiously as Australia did.

Faf was busted in Hobart 18 months earlier when they rolled us for 85 and 150.

Probably led the catalyst to start doing it.

The ball tampering stuff only was ever brought up whenever we were playing south africa home and abroad.

I think 2013/14 series that was some stuff going as well. Remember Faf called the aussie team a pack of dogs when he went to touch the ball and they yelled at him dont you touch it.

 

[corbies]

Faf was busted in Hobart 18 months earlier when they rolled us for 85 and 150.

Probably led the catalyst to start doing it.

The ball tampering stuff only was ever brought up whenever we were playing south africa home and abroad.

I think 2013/14 series that was some stuff going as well. Remember Faf called the aussie team a pack of dogs when he went to touch the ball and they yelled at him dont you touch it.

The 13/14 series is also where Warner accused De Villiers of ball tampering which is why I'm saying that was at least where Warner got the idea to really start looking at ways to do it.

 

[Jim Prideaux]

The bowling unit joined together and strongly refuted Bancrofts suggestions they must have know something was up, I wonder if they're brave enough to do the same to Warner by proxy of his manager.

Doubt it. It's brave to stand up to the quiet fella that's out of the squad... but when it comes to the combustible Warner we'd best keep him happy.

Or they’re no longer giving it oxygen, which would be the smart move, nothing gained now by commenting on it.