Official Club Stuff Football Department Review and Board update

[Dominator_7]

These clowns need to walk away. Take a leaf out of the ‘Focus On Footy’ ticket’s book and quit before you embarrass yourselves further.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

You use 'sacking coaches' as a defence of the board showing that they're not happy about where we are. To me, there is quite clearly enough evidence now to know that sacking coaches has not been the solution and, therefore, the wrong problem has been repeatedly identified - more than likely by powerbrokers and corporates who are incapable of seeing failure in themselves. This is backed up by comments that come of out PP, including the latest from MM. Many choose to disregard everything that MM says because it doesn't suit their agenda and it's easy to call him names to discredit him etc. I'm more open-minded than that - the reality is he has lived the experience.

In terms of your emotively-driven 'bended knee' comment - it's about accountability. It is not an uncommon thing for boards, offices, agencies to apologise on behalf of the position, to show accountability. If they don't acknowledge mistakes, how can we trust them to know what they're doing in the future?

The pokies will go in time, no doubt, but they should have gone yesterday. We don't want to be beholden to powerbrokers and yet we are.

Not sure why I'm being linked to the current challengers - they are irrelevant to me and judging by your comments, they sound like morons too.

These are opinions and we are going in circles.

Who says the problem isn't coaching and therefore the board doing the hiring are at fault on that score?

I mean we can see the recruiting, we can see the lack of development and we can see poor play on the field and any changes made or not made. These things are visual evidence.

The notion that sacking coaches hasn't worked so therefore the problem is something else behind closed doors is largely circumstantial.

Again, I am sure Sayers took responsibility in his speech the other day. Not enough to appease you, but I'm sure the question was asked and he accepted a share of the blame.

No, the pokies shouldn't have gone yesterday. We are not cutting off our nose to spite our face all at once. We just got back to neutral, and we are still in the midst of Covid. Plus we don't know the future of Liddle right now and if he goes, how our revenue streams are affected. It is completely appropriate to hang on to it right now.

 

[charred_fate]

These are opinions and we are going in circles.

Who says the problem isn't coaching and therefore the board doing the hiring are at fault on that score?

I mean we can see the recruiting, we can see the lack of development and we can see poor play on the field and any changes made or not made. These things are visual evidence.

The notion that sacking coaches hasn't worked so therefore the problem is something else behind closed doors is largely circumstantial.

Again, I am sure Sayers took responsibility in his speech the other day. Not enough to appease you, but I'm sure the question was asked and he accepted a share of the blame.

No, the pokies shouldn't have gone yesterday. We are not cutting off our nose to spite our face all at once. We just got back to neutral, and we are still in the midst of Covid. Plus we don't know the future of Liddle right now and if he goes, how our revenue streams are affected. It is completely appropriate to hang on to it right now.

Well we've employed two proven, successful coaches and then sacked them both for being failures ... bit of evidence there, whether you choose to give it any weight or not. We've also heard plenty from former players and coaches over the years regarding the environment.

Happy to leave it here with you, but I won't be refraining from commenting on irrational, biased or moronic posts just because some are blinded by what I can only assume is misplaced loyalty. It may well be an insecurity complex. It seems many truly want to live on past glory and believe in the 'we're Carlton, fk the rest' notion.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Well we've employed two proven, successful coaches and then sacked them both for being failures ... bit of evidence there, whether you choose to give it any weight or not. We've also heard plenty from former players and coaches over the years regarding the environment.

Happy to leave it here with you, but I won't be refraining from commenting on irrational, biased or moronic posts just because some are blinded by what I can only assume is misplaced loyalty. It may well be an insecurity complex. It seems many truly want to live on past glory and believe in the 'we're Carlton, fk the rest' notion.

Irrational, biased or moronic posts ... according to you. You don't exactly play nice with others.

The reasons for Malthouse's failure were quite obvious. He dismantled a list that had played finals and tried to implement the game plan that worked for him with a different list. It was a clear failure.

Pagan arrived as we copped draft penalties. He bottomed out and we started to rebuild through the draft. In his 5th season, we got smacked by 20 goals and a circuit breaker was needed.

What support do you reckon these guys were missing?

I'm suggesting you play nice with posters. You're not a vigilante charged with belittling anyone you disagree with.

 

[thylacine60]

exactly - this type of behaviour needs to be sanctioned mercilessly........

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

exactly - this type of behaviour needs to be sanctioned mercilessly........

Yes it does.

 

[thylacine60]

mercilessly!

 

[Max Pepsi]

From what I can tell, we've been surviving on false promises for 20 years, so not sure of the relevance or difference, to be honest.

For a start, I want the board to acknowledge that despite all their decisions, they have so far gotten us nowhere on-field. The silence is deafening and, dare I say it, very similar to the behaviours of conservative political parties - that's not really a surprise though.

Secondly, I want the Mathieson name to follow the Pratt name out the door and for the Club to ditch the pokies as a revenue stream.

Third, I want representation from a cross-section of society on the board - not only corporates.

I know that the Club is receiving a lot of really negative feedback from the supporter base at the moment - that information comes from the Club.

I'm am not angling to get Teague back, but I do think it could have been handled a lot better. I think it could end up biting us in the arse if we don't get Clarkson and my feeling is that all our eggs were in that basket, with an expectation that he'd say yes. I've been pro-Clarkson for a while, but in hindsight, I'd have been just as happy to keep Teague and create a better unit.

My judgement isn't clouded by corporate speak. Where many on here love that Sayers spoke about finals next year, the more obvious and sensible conclusion is that it's great to have that goal, but keep it indoors. All that announcing it publicly achieves (aside from scoring some brownie points from desperate fans) is to place pressure on the team/coach unnecessarily bc the media will be all over it.

You're entitled to your opinion & I'm not going to debate all your points, but can you please explain the bold bit? If you mean to get a doctor or lawyer or scientist on the board, I get it. Is that what you mean or do you mean some other type of person?

I think the only barrier to being on any board should be the ability to show you understand the decisions you need to make. They are not just voting on what day to hold the lamington sale fundraiser.

 

[CJMB]

You're entitled to your opinion & I'm not going to debate all your points, but can you please explain the bold bit? If you mean to get a doctor or lawyer or scientist on the board, I get it. Is that what you mean or do you mean some other type of person?

I think the only barrier to being on any board should be the ability to show you understand the decisions you need to make. They are not just voting on what day to hold the lamington sale fundraiser.

I think I'd probably just prefer the board be the best candidates for running our footy club.

Aside from Craig Mathieson, who's the last 'powerbroker'/bankroller left, it feels like the current members have some genuine knowledge/skills/assets to contribute.

Diesel takes over from Judd's role, so as long as he turns up to work that's already an improvement... reckon he'll be a lot more involved and invested in the football department.

Tim Lincoln provides data & analytics via his company, guessing that might be a mix of on & off field?

Lahra Carey an 'experienced communications strategist'. PR, strategic communications, 'training programs for senior executives and other key staff'.

Rob Priestly, chairman of JP Morgan A&NZ. Business development, financials (& Syndey market?...)

Sayers we obviously know about. CEO of PWC, chair of Melb chapter of Aus Business & Community Network, etc.

David Campbell, partner of Egon Zehnder Int. Board/CEO assessment & succession, leadership development, talent advisory, etc.

Patty Kinnersly, we should all know about her work re: culture/respect/behaviour against domestic violence, and she oversees AFLW/VFLW & Carlton respects.

Mathieson has been on the board the longest, similar time to Sayers I think, so you'd think in the next few years (maybe 4-5 max) he'd be moved on (and hopefully not replaced with another family member...). At which point, we're hopefully more or less 'done' with the old pokies king and his money....

 

[charred_fate]

You're entitled to your opinion & I'm not going to debate all your points, but can you please explain the bold bit? If you mean to get a doctor or lawyer or scientist on the board, I get it. Is that what you mean or do you mean some other type of person?

I think the only barrier to being on any board should be the ability to show you understand the decisions you need to make. They are not just voting on what day to hold the lamington sale fundraiser.

I'm not saying they couldn't be any of those, but I wouldn't limit myself to them either. There would have to be a minimum skillset, but there is much to be gained by diversity in perspectives.

 

[charred_fate]

I think I'd probably just prefer the board be the best candidates for running our footy club.

Then we'd be on the same page.

 

[Michael Jezz]

I think I'd probably just prefer the board be the best candidates for running our footy club.

Aside from Craig Mathieson, who's the last 'powerbroker'/bankroller left, it feels like the current members have some genuine knowledge/skills/assets to contribute.

Diesel takes over from Judd's role, so as long as he turns up to work that's already an improvement... reckon he'll be a lot more involved and invested in the football department.

Tim Lincoln provides data & analytics via his company, guessing that might be a mix of on & off field?

Lahra Carey an 'experienced communications strategist'. PR, strategic communications, 'training programs for senior executives and other key staff'.

Rob Priestly, chairman of JP Morgan A&NZ. Business development, financials (& Syndey market?...)

Sayers we obviously know about. CEO of PWC, chair of Melb chapter of Aus Business & Community Network, etc.

David Campbell, partner of Egon Zehnder Int. Board/CEO assessment & succession, leadership development, talent advisory, etc.

Patty Kinnersly, we should all know about her work re: culture/respect/behaviour against domestic violence, and she oversees AFLW/VFLW & Carlton respects.

Mathieson has been on the board the longest, similar time to Sayers I think, so you'd think in the next few years (maybe 4-5 max) he'd be moved on (and hopefully not replaced with another family member...). At which point, we're hopefully more or less 'done' with the old pokies king and his money....

The board requires another member wiht football experience or conncection: Brown, Maclure, SOS, Walls even Andy Maher or Kouta

 

[Malifice]

You guys are all aware the root cause of all this shit is a fractured board, behind the scenes puppeteers, office and backroom politics and all the dysfunction associated with that?

Malthouse was spot on. Were an ineptly led boys club, living in the past, with too many powerful people pulling strings and fighting each other.

This is the root of all our problems. Until there is a complete clean out, nothing is ever going to change.

 

[Aphrodite]

You guys are all aware the root cause of all this sh*t is a fractured board, behind the scenes puppeteers, office and backroom politics and all the dysfunction associated with that?

Malthouse was spot on. Were an ineptly led boys club, living in the past, with too many powerful people pulling strings and fighting each other.

This is the root of all our problems. Until there is a complete clean out, nothing is ever going to change.

Is that you Vince.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

You guys are all aware the root cause of all this sh*t is a fractured board, behind the scenes puppeteers, office and backroom politics and all the dysfunction associated with that?

Malthouse was spot on. Were an ineptly led boys club, living in the past, with too many powerful people pulling strings and fighting each other.

This is the root of all our problems. Until there is a complete clean out, nothing is ever going to change.

The board didn't force Mick to gut our list mate...

He's just cracked the shits because we turfed him out and looking for a scapegoat. Of the board members he's whinging about, only 2 remain, one of which is now our president.

The board have unquestionably made a lot of poor decisions over the years. Particularly with coach choices.

But now Sayers has a different role, so far he's being proactive and has his priorities straight unlike the last liar. Only time will tell how he fills out as our president but can't judge based on his previous 9 years on the board.

The board has upset a LOT of members, myself included. But this hasn't just been a coach sacking this time, we have 4 new board members and the director of football actually cares about the club. He won't be pushed around.

So really, your grievances are what? 3 board members plus a president who's only been in the role for a couple of weeks?

And out of those 3, only one of those have been around for the appointment of Malthouse, Bolton and Teague in Mathieson.

Patty Kinnersly and David Campbell have only been there for around 3 years. So they oversaw the appointment of Teague.

With talks of a new CEO plus a new head of football, new coach, 3 new assistants and changing half the board, I'm erring on the side of seeing how this pans out before claiming that nothing will change.

 

[Gavstar]

You guys are all aware the root cause of all this sh*t is a fractured board, behind the scenes puppeteers, office and backroom politics and all the dysfunction associated with that?

Malthouse was spot on. Were an ineptly led boys club, living in the past, with too many powerful people pulling strings and fighting each other.

This is the root of all our problems. Until there is a complete clean out, nothing is ever going to change.

Koutas & Loccasanios challenge will recreate the exact scenario you think is the problem this time with the Elliotts back in control as the Puppeteers.

In my view Sayers is trying to clean house and Rome wasn’t made in a day.

 

[Gointocarlton]

The board didn't force Mick to gut our list mate...

He's just cracked the shits because we turfed him out and looking for a scapegoat. Of the board members he's whinging about, only 2 remain, one of which is now our president.

The board have unquestionably made a lot of poor decisions over the years. Particularly with coach choices.

But now Sayers has a different role, so far he's being proactive and has his priorities straight unlike the last liar. Only time will tell how he fills out as our president but can't judge based on his previous 9 years on the board.

The board has upset a LOT of members, myself included. But this hasn't just been a coach sacking this time, we have 4 new board members and the director of football actually cares about the club. He won't be pushed around.

So really, your grievances are what? 3 board members plus a president who's only been in the role for a couple of weeks?

And out of those 3, only one of those have been around for the appointment of Malthouse, Bolton and Teague in Mathieson.

Patty Kinnersly and David Campbell have only been there for around 3 years. So they oversaw the appointment of Teague.

With talks of a new CEO plus a new head of football, new coach, 3 new assistants and changing half the board, I'm erring on the side of seeing how this pans out before claiming that nothing will change.

Just on the selection of coaches, the board ratifies the decision based on recommendations by either a selection panel, a CEO, a footy manager etc. They rely on their expertise to perform the search, shortlist, interview, re-interview, select and recommend. They make sure a process has been followed. With Malthouse, I dare say the recommendation came from the CEO at the time Greg Swann and then GM of Football Andrew McKay.
Brendan Bolton was selected by a panel consisting of Steven Trigg, Socceroos coach Ange Postecoglou, Chris Judd and Ken Sheldon.
Teague was selected by a panel of Chris Judd, Mark LoGiudice, football boss Brad Lloyd and CEO Cain Liddle. Yes they have ultimate responsibility but Im not sure we can pin it all on the board

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

You guys are all aware the root cause of all this sh*t is a fractured board, behind the scenes puppeteers, office and backroom politics and all the dysfunction associated with that?

Malthouse was spot on. Were an ineptly led boys club, living in the past, with too many powerful people pulling strings and fighting each other.

This is the root of all our problems. Until there is a complete clean out, nothing is ever going to change.

I disagree. Their appointments are poor but they are not responsible for obvious on field issues. Coaches who can't adapt don't get a free pass because 2 remaining board members have been there for 9 years.

You are effectively saying that Luke Sayers and Craig Mathieson will ensure poor culture going forward and that seems ridiculous to me.

The changes are significant so far with more to come. This notion that poor coaching and poor playing can be blamed on the board, gives coaches and players an easy out. What does that do for culture?

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Just on the selection of coaches, the board ratifies the decision based on recommendations by either a selection panel, a CEO, a footy manager etc. They rely on their expertise to perform the search, shortlist, interview, re-interview, select and recommend. They make sure a process has been followed. With Malthouse, I dare say the recommendation came from the CEO at the time Greg Swann and then GM of Football Andrew McKay.
Brendan Bolton was selected by a panel consisting of Steven Trigg, Socceroos coach Ange Postecoglou, Chris Judd and Ken Sheldon.
Teague was selected by a panel of Chris Judd, Mark LoGiudice, football boss Brad Lloyd and CEO Cain Liddle. Yes they have ultimate responsibility but Im not sure we can pin it all on the board

Correct. You don't pin it all on the board, but ultimately the buck stops with them.

 

[Canyouhearthedrums]

I think I'd probably just prefer the board be the best candidates for running our footy club.

Aside from Craig Mathieson, who's the last 'powerbroker'/bankroller left, it feels like the current members have some genuine knowledge/skills/assets to contribute.

Diesel takes over from Judd's role, so as long as he turns up to work that's already an improvement... reckon he'll be a lot more involved and invested in the football department.

Tim Lincoln provides data & analytics via his company, guessing that might be a mix of on & off field?

Lahra Carey an 'experienced communications strategist'. PR, strategic communications, 'training programs for senior executives and other key staff'.

Rob Priestly, chairman of JP Morgan A&NZ. Business development, financials (& Syndey market?...)

Sayers we obviously know about. CEO of PWC, chair of Melb chapter of Aus Business & Community Network, etc.

David Campbell, partner of Egon Zehnder Int. Board/CEO assessment & succession, leadership development, talent advisory, etc.

Patty Kinnersly, we should all know about her work re: culture/respect/behaviour against domestic violence, and she oversees AFLW/VFLW & Carlton respects.

Mathieson has been on the board the longest, similar time to Sayers I think, so you'd think in the next few years (maybe 4-5 max) he'd be moved on (and hopefully not replaced with another family member...). At which point, we're hopefully more or less 'done' with the old pokies king and his money....

Exactly. This is the most well-credentialed Board we've had in my life time (at least on paper) and these clowns want to roll it. Can't wait to see the list of Board candidates they've come up with. I presume Vince is one. What are his credentials apart from being on coterie groups?

 

[Chief]

Blues confirm coaching subcommittee

The Carlton Football Club has confirmed the members of the coaching subcommittee that will lead the appointment of its AFL Senior Coach.

Football Director Greg Williams will lead the process, alongside fellow Directors Tim Lincoln and Patty Kinnersly, three-time premiership coach David Parkin, CEO Cain Liddle and Head of Football Brad Lloyd.

The Board met last night, with Sayers writing to the Club’s members to inform them that the six-person panel had been ratified.

“Greg’s football credentials speak for themselves, having been associated with the elite level of the game for nearly 40 years, and boasting a list of achievements that are equal to the footy greats. Importantly, that extensive experience has given Greg a resolute understanding of what is required of a successful football club. He will be uncompromising in the standards we need to set and will work closely with the new Senior Coach to deliver on that,” Sayers wrote.

“Football experience is crucial to the make-up of this subcommittee, and Patty’s experience will be an invaluable benefit to this process. For 14 years Patty was dominant in the VWFL as a player, winning five Premierships and representing Victoria on 10 occasions during that time, twice as captain.

“Tim brings with him unique and highly relevant experience in the field of data and analytics. He specialises in applying data and information and to ensure organisations are able to significantly enhance their decision making. It is an invaluable skillset and one our football club now has the ability to utilise from the outset during the selection of our AFL Senior Coach.

“We also have the benefit of the expertise of one of most successful coaches in the history of our football club. David Parkin guided our club to three Premierships during his time as Senior Coach, and remains one of the most respected figures in the game. Few would understand the qualities required to succeed as a Senior Coach more than David, who is a welcome addition to the panel.

“CEO Cain Liddle and Head of Football Brad Lloyd are delivering and implementing the necessary recommendations as outlined in the football department review. Their insight into the day-to-day management of the football department as well as its operations, will further enhance our selection of the candidate best suited to maximise the performance of our playing group to ensure it begins to deliver results at the elite level.

“We will now allow this thorough and rigorous process to proceed with speed in a professional and orderly fashion. I will communicate with you directly, before speaking publicly, once the panel has made its final decision.”

 

[BlueTongue]

You guys are all aware the root cause of all this sh*t is a fractured board, behind the scenes puppeteers, office and backroom politics and all the dysfunction associated with that?

Malthouse was spot on. Were an ineptly led boys club, living in the past, with too many powerful people pulling strings and fighting each other.

This is the root of all our problems. Until there is a complete clean out, nothing is ever going to change.

Someone mentioned the main issues are with the Pratt’s and the Mathiesons stacking the board with ‘their people’ and the inherent power plays that happen when there is a vacancy. Well considering Jeannie is now gone in the 50% replacement, and assuming neither her or Matho have candidates in the 4 incoming members, then we are looking at least 50% better already.

With Sayers is going after Cook, it appears (at least at face value) that he is making a genuine attempt to right the culture as well as the power balance and get the right people into the most important roles.

This may be wishful thinking but I am hoping that the swift moves he is pulling at the moment is a result of him being on the board for 9 years and observing the struggles and ongoing power plays first hand, biding his time until now, and so not doing everything as fully planned and democratic process is more to circumvent the ‘old Carlton ways’ infiltrating the processes and stacking the decks.

Just hoping that getting Cook (if he is in) and other dominoes that fall as a result of this, will lead to getting the remaining ‘old board’ out of the picture and take us ‘finally’ into a future that proves Malthouse wrong.

Of course this is all pure speculation from someone who only observes what he reads in the media and BigFooty…

 

[jpfalvo]

Someone mentioned the main issues are with the Pratt’s and the Mathiesons stacking the board with ‘their people’ and the inherent power plays that happen when there is a vacancy. Well considering Jeannie is now gone in the 50% replacement, and assuming neither her or Matho have candidates in the 4 incoming members, then we are looking at least 50% better already.

With Sayers is going after Cook, it appears (at least at face value) that he is making a genuine attempt to right the culture as well as the power balance and get the right people into the most important roles.

This may be wishful thinking but I am hoping that the swift moves he is pulling at the moment is a result of him being on the board for 9 years and observing the struggles and ongoing power plays first hand, biding his time until now, and so not doing everything as fully planned and democratic process is more to circumvent the ‘old Carlton ways’ infiltrating the processes and stacking the decks.

Just hoping that getting Cook (if he is in) and other dominoes that fall as a result of this, will lead to getting the remaining ‘old board’ out of the picture and take us ‘finally’ into a future that proves Malthouse wrong.

Of course this is all pure speculation from someone who only observes what he reads in the media and BigFooty…

Both LoGiudice and Mathieson on the board of Lahra Careys company

Assembled Group – Assembled Group of Agencies

assembled.com.au

Sent from my SM-N981B using Tapatalk

 

[gab213]

Both LoGiudice and Mathieson on the board of Lahra Careys company

Assembled Group – Assembled Group of Agencies

assembled.com.au

Sent from my SM-N981B using Tapatalk

What's your point?

 

[jpfalvo]

What's your point?

Blue Tongues comment related to Mathieson stacking the board with their own.

Clearly Lahra Carey, is one of their own.
Given she reports into MLG and Mathieson.

So not totally independent. Just pointing this out.

But I'm sure Gab you will take a counter view, as you think the board is wonderful and have been arguing this, for years

Sent from my SM-N981B using Tapatalk