Franks for the memories. Things don't always go well with COLA

[Steven Tyler]

If we offer him a 5 year deal, will the latter 2 or 3 years be eligible for 50% discount from the salary cap for his long service? This would give us an advantage over most clubs, especially if we load up the later years of the contract.

No
Rules were changed regarding veterans
Now only around $100,000 comes into account regarding eligible veterans per year and per veteran

 

[Cyrilyouchampion]

Hey selkan, you aren't Mark Robinson are you?
He pretty much said the same thing about Bud's press conference today on AFL360 tonight. He is now a body language expert. He said that there is no love or warmth there for the Hawks from Buddy or something along those lines. He was spouting so much crap I tuned out in the end. It's not that I am not realistic and I do know that Buddy could very well be leaving, but his verbal diarrhea was giving me the sh1ts so to speak..

I reckon that the press conference was all smoke and mirrors. While they do recognise the need to become less Buddy-conscious (something that they should have undertaken in 2009 when he started to have 2 or 3 opponents hanging off him), the "equal opportunity" plan that they've embarked on is simply preparing for life without Buddy.

 

[Ram-Man]

I reckon that the press conference was all smoke and mirrors. While they do recognise the need to become less Buddy-conscious (something that they should have undertaken in 2009 when he started to have 2 or 3 opponents hanging off him), the "equal opportunity" plan that they've embarked on is simply preparing for life without Buddy.

Could be ...

Interesting stats from the age , he's kicked the same amount of goals , his accuracy has therefore improved from 37% to 57% . (not sure if these stats include out on the full ?)

 

[TAITA]

I reckon that the press conference was all smoke and mirrors. While they do recognise the need to become less Buddy-conscious (something that they should have undertaken in 2009 when he started to have 2 or 3 opponents hanging off him), the "equal opportunity" plan that they've embarked on is simply preparing for life without Buddy.

Rubbish. It's been well reported since 2008 that Clarkson never wants Buddy to kick the ton at Hawthorn again because we are too predictable, and ultimately, fallible. What would be the point of having Roughie, Hale and Gunston down there for all that time if we didn't want to create a more even, multi optioned path to goal?

The difference is, now it is working.

Dumb post.

 

[Stranglers]

Could be ...

Interesting stats from the age , he's kicked the same amount of goals , his accuracy has therefore improved from 37% to 57% . (not sure if these stats include out on the full ?)

The other thing that's interesting from those stats is that even though i50 entries that target Franklin have decreased by 13% from last year, i50s to the other forwards list have only increased by 4%. So that would tend to indicate that there are some other forward (midfield) targets who have stepped it up a little to take up the slack. Mind you, comparing 8 games between this year and last year is such a small sample pool and is affected by so many other factors you could probably just about roll the statistics to point to whatever conclusion you would like.

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

If we offer him a 5 year deal, will the latter 2 or 3 years be eligible for 50% discount from the salary cap for his long service? This would give us an advantage over most clubs, especially if we load up the later years of the contract.

No
Rules were changed regarding veterans
Now only around $100,000 comes into account regarding eligible veterans per year and per veteran

Otherwise known as the "Geelong" rule.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

At the risk of both sounding stupid and restating what others have said - would it be so bad if he left? Let me back that up by saying I don't want Buddy to leave and love him as a player and would be utterly devastated if he left - but I think there is plenty of upside even if he did leave.

We'd have $1,000,000+ in the kitty to upgrade other players' contracts, retain our wealth of amazing young players long-term (Rioli, Anderson, Hill, Breust, WhiteX, Stratton etc.) as well as possibly poach a player here or there or snatch a veteran key forward to bridge the gap for a few years while we bring up Brand and O'Brien. There would obviously be a big gulf in our forward line - and none of our forwards (outside Cyril) are quite as dynamic and game-breaking as Buddy can be - but I think we still have a mighty impressive forward line-up even sans Buddy. As we showed last year during Buddy's prolonged convalescence from his hammy issue - we can win (and win well) without him - even against quality opposition like the Collingwood game showed. The extra cash (and possible compensation pick) could allow us to start restocking our midfield with younger legs and I am positive there would be a couple of homesick Gold Coast and GWS players that might send feelers out to the Victorian clubs again.

As I said - I don't want him to go - but I think that if he left we would still definitely be a top 4 side and could contend and win premierships. Geelong lost Gablett Jr and still won a premiership. We have a champion side - and the loss of Buddy would not change that. This is why my main fretting is around September - not October. If we can avenge last year then Buddy could go switch to lawn bowls and I wouldn't be phased.

 

[Cyrilyouchampion]

Rubbish. It's been well reported since 2008 that Clarkson never wants Buddy to kick the ton at Hawthorn again because we are too predictable, and ultimately, fallible. What would be the point of having Roughie, Hale and Gunston down there for all that time if we didn't want to create a more even, multi optioned path to goal?

The difference is, now it is working.

Dumb post.

So because you don't agree it's a "Dumb post"? Yeah good on ya...
It's an observation that I have made and an opinion that I am quite rightly entitled to make. If you don't like it well tough t***ies.
If Clarko has been concerned that we're too predictable, why has it then taken 3-4 years to fix?

 

[Flukey!]

Clarko has stated for several years he doesn't want Buddy kicking the bulk of our goals. Probably back as far as 2008. The game plan evolves in stages and forward structures just can't be switched on or off and be expected to work. The recruiting of Gunstan would have been a key element of the plan and having Bailey available would have been another key to its success. Bailey rucking allows Roughie forward more often. We are seeing the benefits of this strategy this year.

Bailey hardly played last year.

 

[Halcon]

So because you don't agree it's a "Dumb post"? Yeah good on ya...
It's an observation that I have made and an opinion that I am quite rightly entitled to make. If you don't like it well tough t***ies.
If Clarko has been concerned that we're too predictable, why has it then taken 3-4 years to fix?

Damian Hardwick has said the same at Richmond with Riewoldt (interestingly, when Jack went scoreless in Round 1 the press lauded his selfless, decoy, team-orientated game, whereas Buddy has been labelled `out of form').
I think a lot of clubs feel the same way (that it's better to have a more even spread of goal-kickers), particularly after Fev kicked 99 in 2008 and Carlton finished 11th (from memory). While it sounds simple, I don't think it's necessarily easy to implement - up until this season we did it most successfully when Buddy was out of the team, which caused some to say that we're better off without him (I strongly disagree). Obviously over the off-season the club has worked at structures to make our forward line - which always looked so good on paper but didn't quite click and relied too much on individual brillance- finally gel and work better as a team.

 

[Cyrilyouchampion]

Damian Hardwick has said the same at Richmond with Riewoldt (interestingly, when Jack went scoreless in Round 1 the press lauded his selfless, decoy, team-orientated game, whereas Buddy has been labelled `out of form').
I think a lot of clubs feel the same way (that it's better to have a more even spread of goal-kickers), particularly after Fev kicked 99 in 2008 and Carlton finished 11th (from memory). While it sounds simple, I don't think it's necessarily easy to implement - up until this season we did it most successfully when Buddy was out of the team, which caused some to say that we're better off without him (I strongly disagree). Obviously over the off-season the club has worked at structures to make our forward line - which always looked so good on paper but didn't quite click and relied too much on individual brillance- finally gel and work better as a team.

Totally agree, I just hope that my suspicions that there is more too it than just team balance are unfounded. It would be a real shame for Buddy to go for the same reasons as Ablett did - and hopefully the intangible things that stem from being at Hawthorn will win the day. Understand that this is fantasy land stuff, but it is essentially what has kept me in the same job at the same company for nearly 10 years.

 

[Steven Tyler]

Totally agree, I just hope that my suspicions that there is more too it than just team balance are unfounded. It would be a real shame for Buddy to go for the same reasons as Ablett did - and hopefully the intangible things that stem from being at Hawthorn will win the day. Understand that this is fantasy land stuff, but it is essentially what has kept me in the same job at the same company for nearly 10 years.

Personally I don't like the comparison of a normal 9 to 5 job with that of an AFL footballer, especially a star of the comp
No offence intended!
Say your on $80,000 per year, and a rival company offers you $160,000 to do the same job, what would you do?
Let's not forget Buddy wont play AFL until he retires at 65 years of age, like we all will work! Limited life as a player!
It's very possible GWS will ( with the help of AFL ) double Buds salary for the next 5 years, that's massive!
Loyalty is great, but unfortunately money talks
He has a huge decision to make

We all know he'll never be short of a dollar ( or shouldn't be ), so lets hope he does decide loyalty and a very good offer from us is more important than dollars
I've got no idea, but God I hope he stays!

 

[badgrill]

Hey selkan, you aren't Mark Robinson are you?
He pretty much said the same thing about Bud's press conference today on AFL360 tonight. He is now a body language expert. He said that there is no love or warmth there for the Hawks from Buddy or something along those lines. He was spouting so much crap I tuned out in the end. It's not that I am not realistic and I do know that Buddy could very well be leaving, but his verbal diarrhea was giving me the sh1ts so to speak..

Yeah and then compared it to harry Taylor's (telephone) radio interviewm, which was very "warm" apparently. Nah, there's no difference between Taylor doing a phone interview & probably being asked about it casually for the first time, and Bud being harangued constantly about the subject & then being asked by The ******** himself in a press conference with tv cameras & all. No difference there at all.

And then Gerard reckoned that in his (unbiased) opinion, a team would be much better off going for Taylor than Buddy. Even Robbo shot that one down!

 

[badgrill]

I reckon that the press conference was all smoke and mirrors. While they do recognise the need to become less Buddy-conscious (something that they should have undertaken in 2009 when he started to have 2 or 3 opponents hanging off him), the "equal opportunity" plan that they've embarked on is simply preparing for life without Buddy.

Hopefully not like this:

 

[TNTre]

The fact the Matt "Richard Cranium" Thompson was at the Franklin presser essentially asking the same questions as he did of Clarko just screams to me that he follows the Craig Hutchinson handbook of journalism. How he is a face of the AFL is mind boggling.

 

[Cyrilyouchampion]

Personally I don't like the comparison of a normal 9 to 5 job with that of an AFL footballer, especially a star of the comp
No offence intended!
Say your on $80,000 per year, and a rival company offers you $160,000 to do the same job, what would you do?
Let's not forget Buddy wont play AFL until he retires at 65 years of age, like we all will work! Limited life as a player!
It's very possible GWS will ( with the help of AFL ) double Buds salary for the next 5 years, that's massive!
Loyalty is great, but unfortunately money talks
He has a huge decision to make

We all know he'll never be short of a dollar ( or shouldn't be ), so lets hope he does decide loyalty and a very good offer from us is more important than dollars
I've got no idea, but God I hope he stays!

No offence taken mate - understand that it is no comparison. However my point is - what price do you put on having the opportunity to play in premierships with your mates that you've spent a third of your life with for a team that has invested heavily in you?
I truly don't think Buddy has anything to worry about after his footy days are over - a platform has been set for him to be successful for the rest of his life. AFL is such a huge business that there will always be a place for AFL greats to continue their working careers in, whether it be marketing, media, coaching, player development, etc.
Kennett's concern for Buddy post footy has no basis - he is still a young bloke after all ffs and I believe he will continue to do very well after footy if he applies himself.
The same goes for Ablett - which is why I reckon he will one day regret his decision to leave Geelong for wads of cash playing in front of mediocre crowds.

 

[Themeanmachine]

Rubbish. It's been well reported since 2008 that Clarkson never wants Buddy to kick the ton at Hawthorn again because we are too predictable, and ultimately, fallible. What would be the point of having Roughie, Hale and Gunston down there for all that time if we didn't want to create a more even, multi optioned path to goal?

The difference is, now it is working.

Dumb post.

Your right, since 2008 we have been predictable going forward.....but until this year Buddy has been the No 1 focus of our forward line. Its pretty obvious that the forward structure and his role has changed substantially this year and whether he goes or not, they are certainly planning our future without him.

I think he will most likely go but pray to God he stays.

 

[Faithful Hawk]

Matt Giteau, Bianca and baby Levi are in France (he's playing for Toulon), but I think Buddy's got a few other sisters, too...

Yes he has and one of them is still in Perth working for the same Company I do.

 

[Bumpswithagrin]

Your right, since 2008 we have been predictable going forward.....but until this year Buddy has been the No 1 focus of our forward line. Its pretty obvious that the forward structure and his role has changed substantially this year and whether he goes or not, they are certainly planning our future without him.

I think he will most likely go but pray to God he stays.

Or maybe they are planning for a premiership this year! Wouldn't that take priority? I think it's much more likely that the change in Buddy's role is more to do with using our forward line the most effective way (and not being too predictable) so we can win the flag rather than planning for a future without Buddy. If he really is gone and the club were 'planning for a future without him' they might as well drop him to Box Hill and be done with it.

 

[Jayd19]

I don't think the new tactic re spread of goalkickers is preparing for life without Buddy. I think it is the other way around. My guess is that:

1. Pre-season, Clarko sat Buddy down (maybe in Las Vegas as is reported) and said from now on you will be sacrificing your own game for the team most weeks.

2. Buddy was not quite sure he wanted to play as a decoy and hence put off contract negotiations to see how it went.

3. He'll decide at the end of the year whether being a "role player" in a potentially great team is enough for him.

I reckon it must be hard for a player of Buddy's standing and ability to play a selfless role for the whole year. He is already copping it for being "out of form". Ultimately, I think he'll choose to leave because of it and to be honest it is hard to blame him.

Clarko is willing to lose Buddy to win a premiership. He had better deliver because all time greats don't grow on trees.

 

[Off The Couch]

He had better deliver because all time greats don't grow on trees.

I'm aware I would be in the majority but I think he has a long way to go to aspire to that title

 

[HAWKS HEROES]

I wonder how guys like Hodge, Mitchell etc are going to feel when he leaves for more money? They took paycuts (or forewent pay rises) to try to keep him, so in the end they'll end up losing twice.

They'll lose a brilliant team-mate, plus by Buddy dragging the whole thing out for a year they will have lost some serious potential earnings.

Hodge sounded fine when he said he did not think he would leave !

 

[Jayd19]

I'm aware I would be in the majority but I think he has a long way to go to aspire to that title

Pretty tough. 2 time Coleman Medalist. 4 time All-Australian. 6 time Hawthorn leading goal kicker. B&F in a Premiership year. Still 4 or 5 good years to go.

 

[Off The Couch]

Pretty tough. 2 time Coleman Medalist. 4 time All-Australian. 6 time Hawthorn leading goal kicker. B&F in a Premiership year. Still 4 or 5 good years to go.

It's always subjective and of course it's only my opinion - the guy is a freak no doubt about it

 

[HawksTHteam2beat]

With all this talk about Naitanui signing for gws did vlad mention anything about using ambassadorial money to top up his salary?