Injury Fremantle 2020 Injury Thread

[Fat Nyfe]

This Tucker situation really smells. How many centre bounces was he in for against the Eagles? Obviously he'd been a regular in the centre all year.
If the club knowingly played him with a suspect hammy they can get ****ed

Edit: Just had a look at the first 5 or 6 centre bounces and he was there for about half of them. So maybe the medicos get the benefit of the doubt on this one and Tucker just had a poor game. Just seems highly coincidental that he had probably his worst game for the club and can't get near it, then rips his hammy off the bone a week later from an innocuous incident.

 

[nurries]

I’m not against changing up the medical and conditioning staff but changing especially the latter will lead to a lot of short term pain for long term gain, next season will probably be a write off with a significant increase in injuries

Secondarily it’s hard to review a S&C team in the first year of a new coach as an increase in soft tissue injuries are expected so I don’t think we are travelling too bad

Didn’t Darren Burgess take over Melbourne last preseason? Go and have a look at their injury list

 

[G Mus]

Didn’t Darren Burgess take over Melbourne last preseason? Go and have a look at their injury list

We aren’t capable of that quality, a big factor there is also luck

 

[Dockeroo]

I’m not against changing up the medical and conditioning staff but changing especially the latter will lead to a lot of short term pain for long term gain, next season will probably be a write off with a significant increase in injuries

Secondarily it’s hard to review a S&C team in the first year of a new coach as an increase in soft tissue injuries are expected so I don’t think we are travelling too bad

How exactly would soft tissue injuries increase next year if we change personnel?
It’s the management of injuries that is the biggest problem. How can we have repeated surgeries and countless rehab setbacks to several players in recent years without anyone being held accountable?

 

[G Mus]

How exactly would soft tissue injuries increase next year if we change personnel?
It’s the management of injuries that is the biggest problem. How can we have repeated surgeries and countless rehab setbacks to several players in recent years without anyone being held accountable?

Management of injuries is pretty standard, the issue is training and conditioning methods if you think there’s something wrong and need to change to cause less breakdown or loading injuries, I.e less distance running more high intensity volume running, different ratios of strength targeted etc.

When you change that players often pick up an extra couple injuries as they adjust

Unless you’re sacking the club doctor, going to different providers for imaging and physiotherapists not much changes in terms of management of injuries

Surgical setbacks have all pretty much occurred under the specialist rehab protocol timeframe too so hard to pin it on the club, it’s either on the professionalism of the player, bad luck or surgical misadventure/error

 

[Taylor]

How exactly would soft tissue injuries increase next year if we change personnel?
It’s the management of injuries that is the biggest problem. How can we have repeated surgeries and countless rehab setbacks to several players in recent years without anyone being held accountable?

Because when you replace staff who have intimate knowledge of the athletes with people who don't, things get missed, new things get tried and players who might have been familiar and comfortable with their previous routines or treatment plans are now unfamiliar with the new protocols and potentially don't follow them as well.

 

[dont bowl there]

I’m not against changing up the medical and conditioning staff but changing especially the latter will lead to a lot of short term pain for long term gain, next season will probably be a write off with a significant increase in injuries

Secondarily it’s hard to review a S&C team in the first year of a new coach as an increase in soft tissue injuries are expected so I don’t think we are travelling too bad

Oh no, not a season written off due to injury. We better stick with the current setup so that doesn't happen.

 

[G Mus]

Oh know, not a season written off due to injury. We better stick with the current setup so that doesn't happen.

I’m not averse to the change I’m just saying don’t throw the toys out the pram if next season is worse as a result

 

[salim malik]

From a purely selfish point of view I,m pissed of with paying expensive membership dollars at the beginning of pre season when the list is mainly healthy but within weeks the injuries start and the players we want to see out there, our best players are sitting in the stands with long term injuries and the season **cked before it starts.
If it was a once of you might accept it but season after season is to much.

 

[raffrox]

From a purely selfish point of view I,m pissed of with paying expensive membership dollars at the beginning of pre season when the list is mainly healthy but within weeks the injuries start and the players we want to see out there, our best players are sitting in the stands with long term injuries and the season **cked before it starts.
If it was a once of you might accept it but season after season is to much.

That's run through my mind more than a couple of times as well. Stumping up the time, cash and energy for the same old thing to happen.

 

[raffrox]

I’m not averse to the change I’m just saying don’t throw the toys out the pram if next season is worse as a result

Can you imagine what a worse season injury wise would even look like?

 

[G Mus]

Can you imagine what a worse season injury wise would even look like?

The thing that worries me is it all compounds, the biggest indicator for injury risk is history of previous injury

We almost need a delete team button and start again

 

[wayToGo_]

Can you imagine what a worse season injury wise would even look like?

It's pretty laughable isn't it? We should worry because it could get worse? If it gets worse than it is now it would likely be the worst injury situation in the history of AFL. It's like being at the bottom of the ladder and saying we might do worse next year.

Realistically it might be as bad but at least there is a chance it won't if we make changes.

 

[Fat Nyfe]

Melbourne went into the offseason a couple of years ago with 15 surgeries and a long injury list. At the end of their horror 2019, they identified S&C as a department to overhaul and replaced Dave Mission with Darren Burgess. Their current injury list total is 4-5 players, all fringe players, with a concussion and impact knee injury included there. From a glance, Melbourne supporters are adamant Bennell wouldn't be up and running for them if they still had Mission at the helm. The change in staff seems to be working for them.

And there seems to be no evidence that the change in S&C has had a negative short term impact for them, quite the opposite in fact. Those suggesting that there will be further injuries if we replace our S&C, do you have any evidence or AFL precedents to back this up?

 

[Nolo180]

Can you imagine what a worse season injury wise would even look like?

Yeah lo...l like it can actually get worse...?!

 

[Superkoops]

It was a workplace injury and the followup medical care was organised by the employer. If he has grounds, the club will definitely be a party to it.

Still a long bow. Every time someone goes under the knife there are risks clearly outlined and signed off beforehand. People unfortunately die as a reaction to anaesthetic. He injured himself at training, had a consult and then underwent surgery. There were sightings of him walking around at Training in late Feb/early March in a moon boot. You haven’t seen him training being pushed by Freo to get back. Maybe if Freo gave him no choice but to have surgery where surgery wasn’t warranted but with his injury it definitely was.

To me looks like a case of post surgical complications with the added Hagdorn touch.

 

[Nolo180]

Melbourne went into the offseason a couple of years ago with 15 surgeries and a long injury list. At the end of their horror 2019, they identified S&C as a department to overhaul and replaced Dave Mission with Darren Burgess. Their current injury list total is 4-5 players, all fringe players, with a concussion and impact knee injury included there. From a glance, Melbourne supporters are adamant Bennell wouldn't be up and running for them if they still had Mission at the helm. The change in staff seems to be working for them.

And there seems to be no evidence that the change in S&C has had a negative short term impact for them, quite the opposite in fact. Those suggesting that there will be further injuries if we replace our S&C, do you have any evidence or AFL precedents to back this up?

So how do we go about getting a said "Darren Burgess type"? Do we have the cash or the pulling power? Maybe this Covid situation could make us a destination club for medico's???

 

[nurries]

Melbourne went into the offseason a couple of years ago with 15 surgeries and a long injury list. At the end of their horror 2019, they identified S&C as a department to overhaul and replaced Dave Mission with Darren Burgess. Their current injury list total is 4-5 players, all fringe players, with a concussion and impact knee injury included there. From a glance, Melbourne supporters are adamant Bennell wouldn't be up and running for them if they still had Mission at the helm. The change in staff seems to be working for them.

And there seems to be no evidence that the change in S&C has had a negative short term impact for them, quite the opposite in fact. Those suggesting that there will be further injuries if we replace our S&C, do you have any evidence or AFL precedents to back this up?

....Exactly this...

Can only imagine what it would be like to have 4-5 fringe players injured atm. Imagine just having Banfield, Dixon, Giro, Duman and Mccarthy injured and the rest available .

 

[arsesmart]

Because when you replace staff who have intimate knowledge of the athletes with people who don't, things get missed, new things get tried and players who might have been familiar and comfortable with their previous routines or treatment plans are now unfamiliar with the new protocols and potentially don't follow them as well.

Undoubtedly there's value in continuity, but there can be staleness too.

A prolonged tenure is justifiable if there's elite level excellence in outcomes, even if it's just at some point, but on the whole the weight of evidence suggests that hasn't been the case.

Plus you could keep some of the S&C and/or medical team, for continuity sakes, even while undertaking broad scale radical change.

 

[Superkoops]

This Tucker situation really smells. How many centre bounces was he in for against the Eagles? Obviously he'd been a regular in the centre all year.
If the club knowingly played him with a suspect hammy they can get f’ed

Edit: Just had a look at the first 5 or 6 centre bounces and he was there for about half of them. So maybe the medicos get the benefit of the doubt on this one and Tucker just had a poor game. Just seems highly coincidental that he had probably his worst game for the club and can't get near it, then rips his hammy off the bone a week later from an innocuous incident.

It doesn’t sound like he ripped ham off the bone. He has a tendon tear. There are three segments of the hamstring and they are long muscle segments. They repair most of the longer tears by surgery for better prognosis. It hasn’t been confirmed whether he needs surgery as yet he will have a consult today/tomorrow and likely have surgery. Also likely less than 8-weeks of season remaining so yes Tucker is done.

Also seems a coincidence that he had a poor game against WC. He was still running around in the last quarter. Maybe hampered by a niggle and from what I could tell had someone running closely with him from WC. Didn’t he get his legs tangled up with other players?

 

[Scham]

From a purely selfish point of view I,m pissed of with paying expensive membership dollars at the beginning of pre season when the list is mainly healthy but within weeks the injuries start and the players we want to see out there, our best players are sitting in the stands with long term injuries and the season **cked before it starts.
If it was a once of you might accept it but season after season is to much.

The crowds over the next few games here will reflect that. Supporters want to see their best players.

 

[theGav56]

Great idea to get S&C staff who can make it so injuries only effect fringe players. I like it!

 

[G Mus]

Melbourne went into the offseason a couple of years ago with 15 surgeries and a long injury list. At the end of their horror 2019, they identified S&C as a department to overhaul and replaced Dave Mission with Darren Burgess. Their current injury list total is 4-5 players, all fringe players, with a concussion and impact knee injury included there. From a glance, Melbourne supporters are adamant Bennell wouldn't be up and running for them if they still had Mission at the helm. The change in staff seems to be working for them.

And there seems to be no evidence that the change in S&C has had a negative short term impact for them, quite the opposite in fact. Those suggesting that there will be further injuries if we replace our S&C, do you have any evidence or AFL precedents to back this up?

Their soft tissue injury list is only 1-2 less than the same time last year, a fair few less impact injuries however - they’ve also had professionalism improvements such as Steven May which helps

Off the top of my head Collingwood had an issue a few seasons ago when they cut long distance running from their program, think they had 6 hamstrings at the same time or something ridiculous

Non AFL Bayern Munich had a similar issue a few seasons back too where they were fed up with injuries and changed tact for little immediate result, it’s improved now but they’ve also moved on some of the players who were constantly unavailable


I’m not arguing against change - it just can come with pitfalls

 

[Lach72]

That's run through my mind more than a couple of times as well. Stumping up the time, cash and energy for the same old thing to happen.

Said exactly the same thing to the club on Twitter...year after year watching our best players walk the boundary in a suit is complete bullshit

 

[Inveigh Slang]

It's not just about getting rid of Weber, it's finding a new elite High Performance manager, someone with a background working in AFL and good track record. You'd think all the good ones would be employed at other clubs - do we actually have the money to headhunt someone, given Ross' payout?

This is spot on. If you can't find a suitable replacement then it's impossible to move someone on.