Injury Fremantle 2020 Injury Thread

[arsesmart]

...I’m not arguing against change - it just can come with pitfalls

Noted. But when the current reality is you've already fallen in that pit... I think we can take that risk.

 

[Bring back Drum]

Noted. But when the current reality is you've already fallen in that pit... I think we can take that risk.

And let’s face it, when your injury list would beat the team you put on the park by 5 goals, we need a change.

 

[nurries]

What sticks in my head is I remember the interview when Weber started at the club and the interviewer asked what can the players expect.

Weber's answer was....Pain

He wasn't wrong there!

 

[DanWA]

Didn't you lads have a full review leading into this season?

That list is disturbing

 

[BettercallSaul]

Well in the end of the day, I don’t know who needs to be moved on or what goat entrails we need to study to find an answer. What I do know is that for the love of God something has to change because the €}^} thing is broken.When Pav comes out and questions the S&C then you know changes are coming at last.

 

[Nalin]

Didn't you lads have a full review leading into this season?

That list is disturbing

Late 2019, Dockers weren't making finals again, membership numbers were falling. Of the key figures since the 2013 GF, Brad Lloyd has moved on, but Rosich, Lyon and Weber remained. The soft cap means we could only afford one change in the off-season:
1) Change the coaching staff and pay out the final year of Ross Lyon's contract. Also likely to force a change at the top with Rosich as his biggest supporter
2) Change the S&C staff and pay out the final year of Weber's/ and potentially anyone else's contract

Most Freo fans have an opinion on Lyon either way. But as an outsider, I'm curious to hear what would you do?

 

[DanWA]

Late 2019, Dockers weren't making finals again, membership numbers were falling. Of the key figures since the 2013 GF, Brad Lloyd has moved on, but Rosich, Lyon and Weber remained. The soft cap means we could only afford one change in the off-season:
1) Change the coaching staff and pay out the final year of Ross Lyon's contract. Also likely to force a change at the top with Rosich as his biggest supporter
2) Change the S&C staff and pay out the final year of Weber's/ and potentially anyone else's contract

Most Freo fans have an opinion on Lyon either way. But as an outsider, I'm curious to hear what would you do?

Keep Lyon/Rosich and Full clean out of medical/S&C

 

[Midnite65]

Keep Lyon/Rosich and Full clean out of medical/S&C

If we had kept Lyon players like Serong would have been playing back or forward pocket for 3 years and would never got a chance in the midfield. We are suffering now because Lyon relied on too many experienced B and C graders with low skills and development of younger players was poor. Also he had too much power over everything and refused to listen to anyone hence why all of our good assistant coaches left and we are left with what we have (excluding Josh Carr). Lyon was the greatest coach we have ever had by a country mile but he also contributed largely to where we sit now.

 

[DanWA]

If we had kept Lyon players like Serong would have been playing back or forward pocket for 3 years and would never got a chance in the midfield. We are suffering now because Lyon relied on too many experienced B and C graders with low skills and development of younger players was poor. Also he had too much power over everything and refused to listen to anyone hence why all of our good assistant coaches left and we are left with what we have (excluding Josh Carr). Lyon was the greatest coach we have ever had by a country mile but he also contributed largely to where we sit now.

Not being clued up on the soft caps. Is there any roadblocks in doing it before next season then?

Don't think a fan of any club would not find that list disturbing

 

[MadMundy]

Do you think that we risk Hogan, Sturt and Cox this week if they are indeed ready to go? We have the bye coming up and you'd think it'd be wise to rest them?

 

[salim malik]

Keep Lyon/Rosich and Full clean out of medical/S&C

Some of us on here wanted that, removal of the coach killers , keep Lyon for a year and not pay out his contract and spend the million on a new s and c team but the Lyon hate was too strong.
They wanted Lyon gone come hell or high water.
On reflection how much better would it have been to have Lyon to work out his contract thru this crappy covid time and have Longmuir or who ever step into the role with a clean slate and the new s and c team having had a year to get the medical side right.

 

[raffrox]

Some of us on here wanted that, removal of the coach killers , keep Lyon for a year and not pay out his contract and spend the million on a new s and c team but the Lyon hate was too strong.
They wanted Lyon gone come hell or high water.
On reflection how much better would it have been to have Lyon to work out his contract thru this crappy covid time and have Longmuir or who ever step into the role with a clean slate and the new s and c team having had a year to get the medical side right.

I think the more laughable bit was keeping Rosich though. He was clearly on a different page to the board. As far as Lyon goes McPharlin as recently as this wek said that it looked like Ross had lost the young players.

 

[wayToGo_]

Some of us on here wanted that, removal of the coach killers , keep Lyon for a year and not pay out his contract and spend the million on a new s and c team but the Lyon hate was too strong.
They wanted Lyon gone come hell or high water.
On reflection how much better would it have been to have Lyon to work out his contract thru this crappy covid time and have Longmuir or who ever step into the role with a clean slate and the new s and c team having had a year to get the medical side right.

I'm still not sure why we couldn't do both? How much do S&C peeps get paid? I'm not sure it was all about money. Fyfe was extremely defensive of Weber. Do you piss off your dual Brownlow medallist Captain by going against his wishes?

The upside of JLo coming in a year early is the players having an extra year to learn the skills based game plan. In a few years I suspect we'll revisit this hypothetical.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

I'm still not sure why we couldn't do both? How much do S&C peeps get paid? I'm not sure it was all about money. Fyfe was extremely defensive of Weber. Do you piss off your dual Brownlow medallist Captain by going against his wishes?

The upside of JLo coming in a year early is the players having an extra year to learn the skills based game plan. In a few years I suspect we'll revisit this hypothetical.

I think money was a real factor in getting rid of them all in the end, it all comes under the soft cap remember. We also posted a pretty big loss last year and the WAFC probably had their say on taking a bigger hit.

Another thing is probably trying to keep some kind of continuity which is why the majority of assistants were kept (FWIW, I've heard there are significant changes to the assistants coming at the end of the year).

Not saying it was the right move, given the current injury list, hard to argue it was but I think that would have been the reasoning

 

[salim malik]

I'm still not sure why we couldn't do both? How much do S&C peeps get paid? I'm not sure it was all about money. Fyfe was extremely defensive of Weber. Do you piss off your dual Brownlow medallist Captain by going against his wishes?

The upside of JLo coming in a year early is the players having an extra year to learn the skills based game plan. In a few years I suspect we'll revisit this hypothetical.

The millions paid to Lyon , Rosich and whatever was paid to Longmuir to get him here would have shelved any plans to improve the s and c.
I know it's all to do with covid but with training restrictions the game plan , skills are not being worked the way they should be.
There was know game plan Monday.
Longmuir as assistant for this season then taking over next year would have been the right move.

 

[G Mus]

Do you think that we risk Hogan, Sturt and Cox this week if they are indeed ready to go? We have the bye coming up and you'd think it'd be wise to rest them?

The bye isn’t really a bye, just an extra days rest

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

The millions paid to Lyon , Rosich and whatever was paid to Longmuir to get him here would have shelved any plans to improve the s and c.
I know it's all to do with covid but with training restrictions the game plan , skills are not being worked the way they should be.
There was know game plan Monday.
Longmuir as assistant for this season then taking over next year would have been the right move.

Since I also think Worsefold is coming over (no insider knowledge just feel), it would have made it even better. JL to take over, no million dollar hit, Worsefold to give continued guidance, S&C replaced a year in advance already...

=(

 

[Monument Hills]

Didn't you lads have a full review leading into this season?

That list is disturbing

View attachment 922047

They collectively earn more than the 22 that will make the ground this week.

 

[wayToGo_]

The millions paid to Lyon , Rosich and whatever was paid to Longmuir to get him here would have shelved any plans to improve the s and c.
I know it's all to do with covid but with training restrictions the game plan , skills are not being worked the way they should be.
There was know game plan Monday.
Longmuir as assistant for this season then taking over next year would have been the right move.

Yeah I agree if JLo came across as an assistant for a year that would have been ideal. But I don't think that was an option. I was/am a fan of Lyon but I think there was some urgency to make change. Really the club should have changed the S&C 2 or 3 years ago (I was still complaining back then about the comparative injury stats) and everything could be a lot different.

Were you at the game on Monday? Our problem was we were often trying the skilled game plan in conditions that simply don't suit it at all - and then it morphed into some unrecognisable hybrid. Geelong were complaining Freo were making it look bad but their team wasn't any better - it was a shit show.

I think you might have to take off your biased glasses if you don't think our game plan has shifted to one based on skills already at Freo since JLo arrived. Disposal efficiency is a flawed stat but when a whole team shows improvement that is a valid indicator something is changing.

 

[salim malik]

If we had kept Lyon players like Serong would have been playing back or forward pocket for 3 years and would never got a chance in the midfield. We are suffering now because Lyon relied on too many experienced B and C graders with low skills and development of younger players was poor. Also he had too much power over everything and refused to listen to anyone hence why all of our good assistant coaches left and we are left with what we have (excluding Josh Carr). Lyon was the greatest coach we have ever had by a country mile but he also contributed largely to where we sit now.

Lachie Neale a similar build to Serong was always in the mid mix, didnt play any where else .Why would Serong have not had the same opportunities. Lyon relied on b and c graders because they were what was available on the list. They did ok , a GF wasnt a bad outcome for them .
Neale was also a young player developed under Lyon who became a b and f and now a Brownlow favourite. Then there is Walters , he turned out ok. Fyfe won 2 Brownlows under Lyons regime.
Lyon wasn't perfect but some on the rubbish posted about him is well, rubbish.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Yeah I agree if JLo came across as an assistant for a year that would have been ideal. But I don't think that was an option. I was/am a fan of Lyon but I think there was some urgency to make change. Really the club should have changed the S&C 2 or 3 years ago (I was still complaining back then about the comparative injury stats) and everything could be a lot different.

Were you at the game on Monday? Our problem was we were often trying the skilled game plan in conditions that simply don't suit it at all - and then it morphed into some unrecognisable hybrid. Geelong were complaining Freo were making it look bad but their team wasn't any better - it was a sh*t show.

I think you might have to take off your biased glasses if you don't think our game plan has shifted to one based on skills already at Freo since JLo arrived. Disposal efficiency is a flawed stat but when a whole team shows improvement that is a valid indicator something is changing.

To me, the problems in the wet are
a) as shown by WC in the GC hub, the gameplan stinks in the wet
b) They are having to learn the new gameplan in groups of 6, in a COVID interrupted season and dont know what to do otherwise. They have their blinkers on for the gameplan (young team, lack of leadership other issues here) because they are trying to hard to implement

Even when its a dry day, you can see times when they are having to overthink things because its still being learnt / implemented properly

 

[Van_Dyke]

The bye isn’t really a bye, just an extra days rest

this, our 'bye' is an 8 day break, which in a normal season we do semi regularly. if they're deemed fit and ready to play, there's not much point resting them for the bye

 

[salim malik]

Yeah I agree if JLo came across as an assistant for a year that would have been ideal. But I don't think that was an option. I was/am a fan of Lyon but I think there was some urgency to make change. Really the club should have changed the S&C 2 or 3 years ago (I was still complaining back then about the comparative injury stats) and everything could be a lot different.

Were you at the game on Monday? Our problem was we were often trying the skilled game plan in conditions that simply don't suit it at all - and then it morphed into some unrecognisable hybrid. Geelong were complaining Freo were making it look bad but their team wasn't any better - it was a sh*t show.

I think you might have to take off your biased glasses if you don't think our game plan has shifted to one based on skills already at Freo since JLo arrived. Disposal efficiency is a flawed stat but when a whole team shows improvement that is a valid indicator something is changing.

The 15 metre passes are easier to hit than the 30 to 40 metre kicks to advantage.
I didn't go Monday, gave our seats back to the club.
Maybe you are looking through purple colored glasses because all I,'ve seen re the game plan is dinky passes then a kick down the line when we get hemmed in.
I haven't seen much use of the corridor at all. We are still relying on the bomb into the forward line hoping our talls take the catch or drop it to our smalls who by the way are totally ineffective.
Eyes are not being lowered going into the forward line, the derby showed me that nothing had changed. Long bomb in, Eagles defence mopped up just like the last 4 seasons.
It's been tough on Longmuir with the training restrictions and injuries, hub etc so he certainly has legit excuses but I can't see much change at all in a game plan

 

[DanWA]

The 15 metre passes are easier to hit than the 30 to 40 metre kicks to advantage.
I didn't go Monday, gave our seats back to the club.
Maybe you are looking through purple colored glasses because all I,'ve seen re the game plan is dinky passes then a kick down the line when we get hemmed in.
I haven't seen much use of the corridor at all. We are still relying on the bomb into the forward line hoping our talls take the catch or drop it to our smalls who by the way are totally ineffective.
Eyes are not being lowered going into the forward line, the derby showed me that nothing had changed. Long bomb in, Eagles defence mopped up just like the last 4 seasons.
It's been tough on Longmuir with the training restrictions and injuries, hub etc so he certainly has legit excuses but I can't see much change at all in a game plan

To back you up with an example, the forward entry/structure still ends up with Tabener almost always trying to take a mark on the line in a pocket

 

[DeanS]

The millions paid to Lyon , Rosich and whatever was paid to Longmuir to get him here would have shelved any plans to improve the s and c.
I know it's all to do with covid but with training restrictions the game plan , skills are not being worked the way they should be.
There was know game plan Monday.
Longmuir as assistant for this season then taking over next year would have been the right move.

How do you know if both Longmuir and Lyon would have accepted that? You can't say it's the "right move" unless you know both would have been onboard.

As far as Lyon goes McPharlin as recently as this wek said that it looked like Ross had lost the young players.

I've heard this first hand from a young player who was on the list up until a year or so ago. "You can't dress down an 18 year old the same as you dress down a 30 year old" was his quote. Ross, for all his strengths, had lost the young players.