Game and Player Review vs North

[loki04]

Brown is in real danger of losing his spot. The 'bad' Leroy seems to have returned, he needs to sharpen up a bit. That was Buckleys best game for us as well, much better than last week. Shame he'll probably lose his spot to Maxwell next week.

Agree, Brown has been flat out awful for last 2 weeks.

The issue is who do we have to play his role of 2nd ruck come aggressor/forward.

3. Pendles
2. Swan
1. Dawes

Cloke unlucky and so was over half of the rest of the team.

Swan had a barry crocker in the 1st quarter before responding like a champ, Pendles was consistantly great all game.

Dawes was in everything and should of kicked 5.

 

[Bay Pie]

I for the life of me can't figure out how anyone could have swan as bog yesterday. Pendles had the same amount of ball but was far more creative and damaging with it. I can only assume those who rate Swan higher miss some of Embles stuff in tight or under rate him because he makes it all look so easy.

Possibly. I voted Swan BOG. I didn't think there was much in the game at quarter time, just poor conversion from NM. Swanny played predominately as a permanent forward in the 1st quarter.

In the 2nd quarter starting in the guts, Swan killed it. He was everywhere. We got the ascendency that quarter and never looked back. That effort and a good finish to the game got the chocolates for me. In no way, am I downgrading Pendles effort. Just chose Swan before him due to this. Perhaps that's a reason Judd gets so many Brownlow votes, with great bursts during a game, albeit what Swan did contributed to a win.

Everyone looks at different things I suppose.

 

[Swooop]

I for the life of me can't figure out how anyone could have swan as bog yesterday. Pendles had the same amount of ball but was far more creative and damaging with it. I can only assume those who rate Swan higher miss some of Embles stuff in tight or under rate him because he makes it all look so easy.

It's interesting thinking about this.

Pendles is such a silky mover.
Swan waddles like a duck.

Reminds me a little of Mark and Steve Waugh respectively.

I reckon, as great as clearly they both are, Pendles possibly gets slightly over-recognised in awards ( eg the Norm Smith maybe) and Swan perhaps under-recognised ( took ages for people to rate him )

Pendles does make everything look ridiculously easy, Swanny looks much more workman-like.

Makes comparing them more difficult than usual, and opens the possibility of wider individual differences of opinion, depending on people's styles of appraisal

 

[Number 10]

Oh joy the weekly Leigh brown should be dropped posts are back, that's just fantastic

His form warrants him to be dropped. Which wouldn't be a bad thing. Get some games into Keeffe while Leroy returns to form in the VFL.

As we saw last year, he had 5 games off and when he came back he was at his best.

 

[mdc]

Reminds me a little of Mark and Steve Waugh respectively.

I reckon, as great as clearly they both are, Pendles possibly gets slightly over-recognised in awards ( eg the Norm Smith maybe) and Swan perhaps under-recognised ( took ages for people to rate him )

Pendles does make everything look ridiculously easy, Swanny looks much more workman-like.

Not sure about this Swooop. Fwiw, I don't think it's totally ridiculous to have given the Swan the BOG yesterday; as I said in the votes thread, I found it very difficult to split Pendles, Dawes, Swan and Beams.

That said I can't agree with Pendles being overrated in awards. He's polled pretty badly in the Brownlow until last year. He missed out on an obvious ANZAC Day medal in 2008 to a more flamboyant Medhurst. And I thought the Norm Smith decision was pretty clear-cut.

If anything, they're both underrated a bit (at least Swan was, until last year). Where Swan waddles, Pendles plods. As we've learnt from Juddmania the last few years, it's incredibly important to many football watchers that you're able to sprint and smash through tacklers. Swan does this plenty, Pendlebury not at all.

The other thing that's worth mentioning is that Pendlebury (much like Thomas)is a lot easier to appreciate at the ground. His defensive positioning, his blocking, his decision-making are all stand-out features which are far more difficult to appreciate on TV.

 

[Bluey64]

Leroy won't be dropped.

Who exactly is going to play the support role to Jolly?

Wood ain't good enough or mobile enough to do it.

Also, if you saw Leroy was also capable of playing deep in defence. His versatility is needed in this team.

Leroy will get better, personally, didn't think he was that bad. A so-so game from him.

How long does Jolly keep getting games when he gets 5 yes five possessions yesterday Oh and his taps when loping around the ground even Goldstein did better in the stats department - Time to bring in Wood and give him the oportunity that Jolly has had Jolly seems to float around and not a mention of his below average performance he is lucky to be in a team with good players around him time mick to realise he is LAZY!!!!

 

[Ed D]

I didn't think Swan was very effective against the Roos. He got a lot of it, but he wasn't at his damaging best, although he warmed up later in the game. Pendles was on fire from the first bounce and was using the ball really well. I can see why people think Swan was BOG (personally I thought Pendles was) but to say he was clearly BOG I don't understand either.

 

[Swooop]

How long does Jolly keep getting games when he gets 5 yes five possessions yesterday Oh and his taps when loping around the ground even Goldstein did better in the stats department - Time to bring in Wood and give him the oportunity that Jolly has had Jolly seems to float around and not a mention of his below average performance he is lucky to be in a team with good players around him time mick to realise he is LAZY!!!!

Thanks Bluey.

Yeah, I reckon you've identified something there that the rest of us were thinking, but didn't want to say.

Personally I didn't want to say much last year, in the euphoria of the grand final win, but sheesh, what a half hearted, inept performance he put in that day.

Get rid of him...... NOW!

Good on you mate for having the e-balls to say it.

 

[Quicky]

Thanks Bluey.

Yeah, I reckon you've identified something there that the rest of us were thinking, but didn't want to say.

Personally I didn't want to say much last year, in the euphoria of the grand final win, but sheesh, what a half hearted, inept performance he put in that day.

Get rid of him...... NOW!

Good on you mate for having the e-balls to say it.

Sarcasm?

No way is Jolly in any threat of getting dropped. Jolly's most important measure for us is how he competes in the ruck and he was good yesterday.

 

[Swooop]

Well truth be known, he'd be the single last person I'd want to see missing from the side.

Least replaceable of all IMO.

 

[Dundalis]

Sorry mate, disagree. If we're going to have 10+ goal kickers week in week out, then Leigh Brown doesn't have to kick any at all. And he was far, far from being dominated in the ruck and his physical presence, his willingness to hit people, makes life so much easier for blokes like Didak, Blair, Caff, Krakouer etc. who do kick our goals.

Right, his 4 taps for the game were critical.

If all you need to do to play for Collingwood, is go out and be a physical presence and hit people, I'm sure there are plenty of people out there that would line up to play for Collingwood.

One of my mates is 6'5 and around 105 kilos is a trained boxer in pretty decent shape, put him out there. He'll only touch the ball 5 times and do a lot of **** all, but he will definitely hit people.

 

[you idiot sheehan]

I said after the first NAB Cup game that I thought Buckley showed some promise and got howled down here for it. I think after his game yesterday to add to his NAB Cup final people should get over their prejudice of his past weaknesses and accept that he is an improved player and worthy of being in the side. I think he'd be stiff to miss if he's the one to go out when Maxy comes back.

I have to agree that Leigh Brown is starting to concern me. He doesn't look nearly as fit and he gives away too many free kicks. I'm sure they'll give Keefe and Wood a go at some stage.

Other than that, looking good, but I'm concerned about sides that can effictively break our flood like North were trying to.

 

[Professor Knowall]

I said after the first NAB Cup game that I thought Buckley showed some promise and got howled down here for it. I think after his game yesterday to add to his NAB Cup final people should get over their prejudice of his past weaknesses and accept that he is an improved player and worthy of being in the side. ...

You don't get it - Buckley is the new Toovey (or Brown) for the Pies BF board. He'll get howled doen here for the rest of this year - regardless of how he actually plays. It's just the way it is.

 

[mdc]

I said after the first NAB Cup game that I thought Buckley showed some promise and got howled down here for it. I think after his game yesterday to add to his NAB Cup final people should get over their prejudice of his past weaknesses and accept that he is an improved player and worthy of being in the side. I think he'd be stiff to miss if he's the one to go out when Maxy comes back.

Prejudice? Do you really believe those who "howled" you down have an anti-Buckley prejudice?

 

[Optimax]

Prejudice? Do you really believe those who "howled" you down have an anti-Buckley prejudice?

Some do, many of them howling down buckley were those tearing shreds off Toovey and ben johnson etc as well.

There are some who make valid arguments and have reasoning and then there are those others

 

[mdc]

Some do, many of them howling down buckley were those tearing shreds off Toovey and ben johnson etc as well.

There are some who make valid arguments and have reasoning and then there are those others

Yes, there are some shit posters.

Not sure that answers my question though. I can see why people would have prejudice against Toovey and Johnson (both have funky kicking actions and Toovey runs like a drunk calf). I can't see why anyone would be prejudiced against Buckley, who is basically a textbook footballer.

p.s. You're the last person I'd have expected defending SB. He's pretty much Shannon Cox without the class!

 

[Optimax]

Yes, there are some shit posters.

Not sure that answers my question though. I can see why people would have prejudice against Toovey and Johnson (both have funky kicking actions and Toovey runs like a drunk calf). I can't see why anyone would be prejudiced against Buckley, who is basically a textbook footballer.

p.s. You're the last person I'd have expected defending SB. He's pretty much Shannon Cox without the class!

Lol I'm not defending Buckley, he is skinny cox with a longer kick just pointing out some posters just hate for hate

But yeah Buckley isn't near my best 22 and with Maxy back he won't be in our best 22

 

[Gambit78]

Right, his 4 taps for the game were critical.

If all you need to do to play for Collingwood, is go out and be a physical presence and hit people, I'm sure there are plenty of people out there that would line up to play for Collingwood.

One of my mates is 6'5 and around 105 kilos is a trained boxer in pretty decent shape, put him out there. He'll only touch the ball 5 times and do a lot of **** all, but he will definitely hit people.

If the exercise here is to simplify a players role in a team to a set of statistics and comparisons to random people in the world, then you have a point. All I am saying is his value to the side exists in more than just the numbers on a page. And I am happy to disagree on how well he is going. I think he's doing exactly what we need him to do, you don't. That's cool. At the end of the day, you maybe right. We'll see.

 

[Zahki]

Lol I'm not defending Buckley, he is skinny cox with a longer kick just pointing out some posters just hate for hate

I don't think that's the case for Buckley, he really was shocking in the NAB Cup and Round 1. He was decent in this game and probably the NAB Final. It's a shame he's a certain out for Maxwell, I think he was slowly trending upwards, but the criticism of him at the time was entirely warranted, he was making massive errors that were costing goals.

 

[vjknight]

finally had my chance to watch the game this morning (young'n woke me at 4am - may as well watch the game now )

what impressed me was simply the enormous pressure applied to north throughout the game, to the point where by the 2nd half their players expected to be harrassed and fumbled even when clear. they were shot mentally after half time.

if this performance was anything to go by, against a side most generally feel 'was' expected to challenge for a final 8 spot, we can then expect to thump every side below the top bracket this year. the obvious thing is this shouldnt happen, as historically even the best have bad days, whether thru weather, lethargy, arrogance or injury. the scary thing is it might just happen that way. we might just thump everyone mid table and below.

the team begin well, have the strength to see out the quarter to take advantage of the others tiredness, and just keep going. how scary could this get ?

considering none of 2010's challengers are improving, are we truly headed for the perfect season ?

for those that wonder why our lines were broken on the odd occasion, remember the opposition are professional players too and will be able to perform to their own expectations at times. but our players are there to stop them, and as long as it occurs the majority of the time, we win.

good times.

 

[Quicky]

considering none of 2010's challengers are improving, are we truly headed for the perfect season?

The perfect season is like discovering Atlantis. Lets not get too ahead of ourselves at this stage we havn't been challenged by anyone of true quality yet.

 

[lgarth80]

What would be bad is a 2008 type season. Geelong were untested except us destroying them, and Hawthorn having a close match. They thought 'we are a 21-1 team, unstoppable in the big one' and they came a cropper. Would have been a 18-4 side if they had played Pies/Hawks/insert other difficult opponent twice in the H&A

Happy for the Pies to win every game but more happy if we play to our potential. If we are beaten then so be it. From what I can see it's only a few sides in the comp who can match us when we put it together.

 

[vjknight]

The perfect season is like discovering Atlantis. Lets not get too ahead of ourselves at this stage we havn't been challenged by anyone of true quality yet.

yep fully ackowledge that. wins against port & north dont make a season, but the manner of that north win suggests something ala essendon 2000 or geelong 2008 is on the cards. and also hence i included arrogance in the statement. and while norths season isnt decided either, good judges tend to see north no lower than say 10th, and to see teams of moderate quality get comprehensively caned is a rare event.

 

[Old Spice]

Leroy won't be dropped.

Who exactly is going to play the support role to Jolly?

Wood ain't good enough or mobile enough to do it.

Also, if you saw Leroy was also capable of playing deep in defence. His versatility is needed in this team.

Leroy will get better, personally, didn't think he was that bad. A so-so game from him.

I'd be giving Leroy another crack against carlton, but certainly Keeffe or Wood could step in. According to Rocca's VLF report, Wood wasvery good last week, but Keeffe definitely is a prospect to trial V a Richmond.

Just on Jolly, is it just me or does he get an extremely raw deal from the umpires? Many of the frees he gives away in the ruck contest are for doing the same thing as Dean Cox and other good ruckmen have been doing for years.

Both our rucks get absolutely screwed. I must be missing something, but everytime I've watched the GF replay, can't believe the treatment Leroy got. This time last year, Jolly was getting absolutely fleeced. Reading Maxwell's book, the club had words with Gieschan re the St Kilda blocks and 3rd man ups in GF I - and the outcome...

Yeah, I think it'd be more accurate to say that he always passes on the first option, and then takes the second one when under a lot more pressure.

Not much of a Buckley fan, and he still made a few shit decisions, but it was a much better game today.

I though shit sandwiches were meant to go bread, shit, bread. You've gone for the open shit sandwich I see.

 

[Ed D]

considering none of 2010's challengers are improving, are we truly headed for the perfect season ?

You never know what will happen during a season. Injuries, suspensions, poor form vs great form, a lucky bounce, I think it's only something you can say might happen with 5 rounds or so to go. I mean last year there was no way I thought we'd lose to Brisbane, but it happened with Fevola producing a massive 2nd half.