no one is assigning any blame to any team. the flaw lies with your inane system and the conclusions that stem from it.
two genuine arguments; neither from collingwood supporters fwiw
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AFLW 2024 - Round 8 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Geelong 2007 vs Collingwood 2010
- Thread starter Mister Dog
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two genuine arguments; neither from collingwood supporters fwiw
- Apr 3, 2006
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It's a facetious argument. Going by this theory, Collingwood of 2010 must be the best team ever, as they have the most up to date tactics.
As much as the Pies 2010 was rock to Geelong 2010s scissors, Geelong 2007 might have been paper. You can only compare their dominance in their relative eras, without introducing wild speculation.
well yes.
you can compare win/loss data etc. but any comparative ranking (x was better than y) stemming from such data is just as speculative.
- Apr 3, 2006
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well yes.
And next years premiers will then be the greatest ever, and so on and so on.
Agreed. Dumb thread.
- Jan 30, 2007
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Fair dinkum there are some deluded Collingwood supporters in this thread.
The question is NOT which team would win if time machines existed and they played a match. The game evolves so quickly that this would always see the current team beat their historical rival. I take it you don't believe Sydney 2005 to be better than Collingwood 1928?
The question is, which team was more dominant, had the better players, and had the more formidable gameplan, all relative to the rest of the comp at that time.
On these grounds, the answer is undoubtedly Geelong. They lost the same number of games but 3 were in the first 5 weeks. I.e. they won 19 of their last 20. They had one of the best Fullbacks of all time, one of the best three midfieds of the last 20 years, stars on each line, had an enormous percentage, did NOT draw the grand final... the list goes on.
The only area where Collingwood stands up is their gameplan, but even in this regard they were no more dominant than Geelong were in 07.
The question is NOT which team would win if time machines existed and they played a match. The game evolves so quickly that this would always see the current team beat their historical rival. I take it you don't believe Sydney 2005 to be better than Collingwood 1928?
The question is, which team was more dominant, had the better players, and had the more formidable gameplan, all relative to the rest of the comp at that time.
On these grounds, the answer is undoubtedly Geelong. They lost the same number of games but 3 were in the first 5 weeks. I.e. they won 19 of their last 20. They had one of the best Fullbacks of all time, one of the best three midfieds of the last 20 years, stars on each line, had an enormous percentage, did NOT draw the grand final... the list goes on.
The only area where Collingwood stands up is their gameplan, but even in this regard they were no more dominant than Geelong were in 07.
Manic Shadow
Team Captain
If they win two in a row they are better
Well if you give Collingwood 4 extra wins then Collingwood have 23 wins from 25 which makes it better than Geelong's 21 wins from 25 games.
You see playing around with figures your arguments come back against you.
Apart from Collingwood losses to St. Kilda & Geelong, we really should have won every match this year....including GF1.
I am not denying Geelong 2007 season in any way shape or form. They were dominant. I just think you have underplayed Collingwood's dominance of 2010 just a tad that's all.
Not saying Collingwood would be top 10 or even top 15 either, but bloody close to top 20.
Cheers.
yes. a perfectly valid view though underpinned by an unprovable premise.
as opposed to; relative to other past, present and future premiership teams. gotcha.
HyperAgressiveDonk
Cancelled
- Banned
- #111
Horrible thread. Geelong by 60 Flemington straights
winty
Moderator
- Moderator
- #112
Another way to look at things is Geelong's greatest losing margin in 2007 was 20 points, and the other losses were by 16, 4 and 5 points, an average losing margin of 11.25 points. Collingwood's greatest losing margin this year was 36 points, with the other losses being by 28, 8 and 3 points, an average losing margin of 18.75 points.
- Banned
- #113
Who was the eq of Geelong & St. Kilda in 2010 in 2007?
Not comparable but for the sake of teh exercise.....
Backlines very even - Collingwoods has more upside while the Geelong defence of 2007 was on the whole at the peak of their careers. The Collingwood defence slightly better on the rebound
Rucks even but only if Darren Jolly is fit. Cats 07 had way more depth - King and Blake vs Fraser and Wood
Midfields - Cats by a small margin due to the quality of their best 3-4 . However the Pies midfield runs deeper than Geelongs midfield (which was very deep itself) and is incredibly young. Jury out on this - we'll know more in 2-3 years.
Forwards - Collingwood has 2 young quality kpps v Geelong 1 quality mid aged kpp. However they have a ton of small forward mids that Collingwood dont have - not neccessarily due to talent but more gameplan. Its impossible to compare say Steve Johnson vs say Brett Macaffer because of the different styles of game these two sides play. Impossible to compare forward lines. Mooney would not have got a game in Collingwoods 2010 forward line however he might have taken Leigh Browns role as the utility/ruck.
Backlines very even - Collingwoods has more upside while the Geelong defence of 2007 was on the whole at the peak of their careers. The Collingwood defence slightly better on the rebound
Rucks even but only if Darren Jolly is fit. Cats 07 had way more depth - King and Blake vs Fraser and Wood
Midfields - Cats by a small margin due to the quality of their best 3-4 . However the Pies midfield runs deeper than Geelongs midfield (which was very deep itself) and is incredibly young. Jury out on this - we'll know more in 2-3 years.
Forwards - Collingwood has 2 young quality kpps v Geelong 1 quality mid aged kpp. However they have a ton of small forward mids that Collingwood dont have - not neccessarily due to talent but more gameplan. Its impossible to compare say Steve Johnson vs say Brett Macaffer because of the different styles of game these two sides play. Impossible to compare forward lines. Mooney would not have got a game in Collingwoods 2010 forward line however he might have taken Leigh Browns role as the utility/ruck.
Winty,
I am no way playing down Geelog 2007 season at all. In fact if you refer to my post with stats you will see I have said that Geelong 2007 season is better than Collingwod's 2010 season.
But when posters come on here and say the difference is like "Geelong by 60 Flemington straights" or "Geelong easily" or that "Collingwood posters have little idea" I can put up the counter points of view at least with some stats to back up my claims.
BTW sorry we had to beat the pants off you in PF
Cheers
- Apr 3, 2006
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No, just...no. In not one way is the Collingwood defence superior to Geelong's in 07.
Why would you even mention upside? How is that relevant?
Once again, age is irrelevant to this comparison. And Cats by a big margin.
It is possible, and Steve Johnson is/was light years better than Brent Macaffer. Geelong again. By some way.
Why not mention it? Any rules saying that I cant?
I think its ENTIRELY relevant that Collingwoods 2010 team is younger than Geelongs 2007 team.
Absolutely but Steve Johnson would be playing midfield in Collingwoods 2010 side and join the large rotation. Collingwood like to play a forward press and play hard tackling defensive forwards in the traditional goalsneak role.
Different gameplans, different roles, impossible to make direct comparisons.
The Finger
Premiership Player
- Banned
- #119
Once you said that Mooney wouldnt get a game at Collingwood you should have been banned from posting again. Sometimes you have to let your bias go if you want to have a reasonable debate.
All that makes them though is younger, not better.
- Apr 3, 2006
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Yet you had no trouble comparing defences?
The Finger
Premiership Player
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- #122
The game plan that Geelong had in 2007 would have smashed Collingwood also. Melbourne play a similar game plan to Geelong just not with the quality that Geelong have. That 2007 side had 16 players that were all good enough to start in the midfield. All players all had exceptional foot skills somthing that cant be said about Collingwoods 2010 side.
- Banned
- #123
that is spot on, i agree! would have said the same but you beat me to it.
No I didnt. The gameplan in defence hasnt really changed much over the years - stop your opponent kicking goals and rebound as effeciently as you can.
Start a seperate thread about Melbourne then. See how they compare to any premiership side since 1964.
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