List Mgmt. Geelong at the 2013 AFL National Draft - live Selections Nos. 16, 36, 41

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Where and when: Thursday 21 November, Gold Coast.​
Picks: 15, 32, 50, 68 (subject to change)​
Other draft profiles: Bound For Glory | Supercoach Paige | Football Nation
That Geelong has followed a certain pattern in drafting recently is not exactly a secret. As Chris Scott said in a midseason interview, ‘It's been a specific recruiting policy of ours as well, to get a lot of 185-190-centimetre guys that can play in lots of positions. That definitely suits us.’ To this physical description can be added a number of qualities – these players are also generally composed when in possession, make good decisions with the ball and are strong overhead. They are not necessarily prolific ball winners at junior level. Of the players Geelong has selected early since 2008 – Daniel Menzel, Mitch Duncan, Billie Smedts, Cam Guthrie and Jackson Thurlow – all spent their time in state sides as flankers or small defenders rather than permanent midfielders. Players who have put up big midfield numbers, such as Allen Christensen and Jordan Schroder, have been left to the later rounds or the rookie draft to be picked.

As a few people on here have remarked this seems to be a reversal of the policy that built the current side, where the emphasis was on drafting big-bodied midfielders who had a strong inside game. There are two points to make here. The first is that the club has been consistent in saying when drafting these players that they ultimately see them becoming midfielders. This suggests they’re drafting for certain qualities they see as innate (ball use, composure) whilst being confident they can coach others (inside game). This isn’t unprecedented given that the likes of Cameron Ling and James Kelly have been transformed pretty significantly to become the players they are/were. The second is that the trading for Josh Caddy suggests natural midfielders are still rated at the Cattery, but the teams comparatively poor draft position over the last five years has hindered their acquisition.

All of which is a roundabout way of getting to a central point – it’ll be interesting to see which way Geelong’s recruiters go this year. It’s a little hard to look into the crystal ball given this is being written before the start of trade period. Scott’s comments in the immediate aftermath of the prelim suggest the club thinks more youth need to be fast tracked and the release of Pods, Hunt and Chapman [and Corey?] would seem to confirm that. You would think the club’s priority would be to draft midfielders of various stripes and possibly a key position or ruck prospect – particularly if Mitch Brown or Trent West (as expected) ask to be traded. However, the club’s view of certain players often seems at odds with that of the fans, Brown being a case in point. Even those who think he has talent (and they’re a dwindling breed) cast him as a natural forward who is being played out of position or a defender who at best will be a third tall. In contrast, Scott has gone out of way publically to describe him as a player the club believes can hold down CHB at senior level. Whether that was just an effort to give Brown a confidence boost or a genuine reflection of the clubs views remains to be seen, but could help to explain discrepancies between who we think they’ll draft and who actually gets picked.

Nonetheless for now the priority would seem to be midfielders and it seems likely that there’ll be a number of accomplished inside mids available at #15, as well as players that fit the more recent pattern. Matt Crouch and Dom Sheed are two I’d love to have. On exposed form neither should be anywhere near #15 but the phantom chatter has both sliding, Sheed in particular – although the late mail is that Collingwood will pounce with 10 & 11 on both. Crouch (brother of Adelaide’s Brad) racks up the possessions on the inside, but he’s also a fierce tackler and clearly enjoys demonstrating that to his opponents. Not as damaging as brother on the outside but still an excellent player. Sheed didn’t come into the year with the same level of expectation as Crouch, but had an outstanding carnival, captaining Western Australia and winning the Larke medal for best player across the tournament. Consider his game against Vic Country. When he was carried off late in the fourth quarter with a busted collarbone he’d racked up 29 disposals and kicked four goals, including one pearler from the boundary that gave his side a sniff in the fourth. Bizarrely, there’s a suggestion that because he lacks some pace and an opposite foot he’ll slide. I’d cry with happiness if Wells read his name out.

Two others who would fit our needs but are only an outside chance to be around are Christian Salem and Nathan Freeman. Both are technically beautiful kicks of the football, good decision makers and can find their own footy. I’m not quite as sold on them as others and I think Freeman in particular has suffered from the way in which junior players are compared to current senior players – yes, he is blisteringly quick and can burst away from congestion and hit long passes ala Patrick Dangerfield, but what makes Dangerfield really unique is that those two weapons are married to a massive frame. Freeman isn’t anywhere near as big and thus I think the comparison is a little disingenuous. Nonetheless would again be more than happy with both at #15 as they’d address that need for a potentially elite inside midfielder, although it seems likely both will go a little earlier than that.

The other three who could be available here are Croweaters Luke Dunstan and Trent Dumont and Patrick Cripps from WA. Much like Sheed Dunstan had an outstanding carnival, averaging a shade over 22 disposals and a touch under 4 tackles and clearances a game, captaining a dominant SA side and winning the team MVP along with Matt Scharenberg. If there’s a knock on him it’s that he’s only an average user of the ball by foot. Dumont is a virtual clone in this respect – a physically solid inside midfielder who wins a stack of his own ball but is not as damaging as he could be. Cripps is a little more intriguing. He grew 20cm last year and so went from being a fringe prospect to one of WA’s key midfielders. Like Dunstan and Dumont he’s a big kid who wins plenty of his own ball but isn’t particularly athletic or damaging by foot. That said it’s noticeable that Cripps is prepared to hold onto the ball in traffic and can find an extra half second of space while he’s looking for an option. Possibly a reach at #15; a better chance if we trade down the order somewhat.

Finally in the event Geelong don’t pick up an inside mid early, or address the need elsewhere, there’s still some value later in the draft. Zac Jones is another who had a tremendous year – MVP for Vic Country and picked as a back pocket in both the All-Australian side and the TAC Team of the Year. He played most of footy down back but pushed into midfield later in the season for the Rays and helped them into the TAC Grand Final (where they were subsequently thrashed). He’s the brother of Nathan and much gets made of the similarities in their love of the contest. I think that gets overemphasised at the expense of the rest of his game; he’s a really tidy player by both hand and footy and generally makes good decisions with the ball. He could play as a lock down defender or tagger but has the ability to hurt the opposition going the other way. In a similar mould is James Tsitas of the Falcons. He played as a midfielder for the Falcons all year and racked up big numbers on his way to a spot in the TAC Team of the year, but got pushed into other roles whilst playing for Country. He’s strong overhead for his size and just does not miss tackles – laid some absolute monsters at the champs.

There are a couple of players who should be available at #15 who fit more cleanly into the recent pattern of Geelong’s recruiting outlined above. Blake Acres of WA came into the champs off the back of a shoulder injury. He kicked a sublime goal in the opening minute of the game against Vic Country in Geelong and then in the next passage of play got smashed in a tackle and popped out his shoulder. Although he played out the rest of the game, and WA’s final game against SA a few days later, he was clearly hampered. Thus there’s little exposed form to go on but he comes across as the prototypical Wells pick of the last five years – good size, smart user of the footy, able to find the goals and versatile. The other player is Kade Kolodjashnij of Tasmania. I haven’t seen him play so I’ll refrain from saying too much about him beyond that his skill set as described very much fits into the recent pattern. In addition Geelong moreso than most clubs has shown a willingness to recruit Tasmanians. Finally although I don’t think he’s a first round pick Nick Bourke of the Falcons is another who fits in this mould and could be a later pick should we trade down in the order. I wasn’t that impressed with what I saw in the champs but he was apparently returning from injury and showed some glimpses, particularly of his contested marking ability. I see he’s also putting up some impressive numbers at the combine.


Of course there’s a chance Wells and co aren’t as interested in midfielders as they are key position players. The obvious candidate is Darcy Gardiner aka the man who beat Tom Boyd. The Boyd hype has reached such ridiculous levels that naturally Gardiner’s stature has grown because he bested him in one game. That said Gardiner is a player, strong one on one (particularly in the air) and ferocious in the contest. At the moment he’s seen as a first round pick and unlikely to slip past the teens. Beyond Gardiner there are a few players who performed credibly at the champs. Alex Spencer of Sandringham was impressive when playing on his man and tidy going the other way. Daniel McStay was also reasonably impressive for Metro and had a strong finals campaign for Eastern Ranges. Both come across as being the type of player Wells likes, as they’re versatile and strong in the air.

Whatever the case, it looks like Geelong will only use 2-3 picks. The core of this next side is going to remain the 2008-2010 drafts, with this years draftees looming as complimentary pieces.
 

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I'm not going to pretend to have a comprehensive knowledge of the potential draftees, though someone like Crouch sounds like he'd be a very good get and may be attainable if we trade Varcoe, or move up a few spots in the first round by trading our pick and West.

A key defender (a stopper, rather than a Harry Taylor-type rebounder) would be nice, but my thing with key defenders is a bit similar to the theory of taggers, that I reckon the really good ones would usually have to be converted to some extent, once they start playing open-age football. Because I reckon if you're completely focused on stopping someone else, you probably aren't one of the elite talents yourself.

Anyway, if we assume that we don't move at all in the draft order and there are no absolute blockbuster trades (which totally change the make-up of our team), I'd suggest we should do something like the following:

Pick 15: best inside midfielder available.
Pick 32: ruckman who will get three years (minimum) to develop: Cameron, Nankervis, Lobb
Pick 50: Wouldn't mind someone like McStay here. I think we should give Sully a go, but he seems more like a pick #68 or rookie list prospect to me. Perhaps someone like Honeychurch or Christensen Jr. would be worthwhile if still on the board here, then use #68 on Sully.
 
Ideally IMO, we pick up a second 1st round pick by trading one of west or Varcoe and pick up Freeman (who would easily replace Varcoe as a line breaking midfielder plus he should be AFL ready next year as he is already pretty big at 85kg) and Gardiner who would form an excellent key defensive partnership with Hamling in a few years. Regardless of who we pick though, we know that Wells will nail the pick :).
 
From what I read it seems that the Pies, unless they do a straight swap for Adams will be compensated pick 11 for Thomas. So we get pick 16 as first rounder.

As for pick 32 - our second round pick - it seems there might be a heap of compensation picks that will push that out to pick 36 or beyond.

So I am slowly coming around to GFC trading maybe West, Varcoe, Stringer or THunt if they can upgrade picks - or maybe get a player. Ideally 3 picks under 30 and one high enough to get a decent inside mid.

However even if I have come around a bit re this ND and trading - just do not see other clubs offering too much for these players that might be up for trade.

May not be much for us in this trade period and we may have to wait for the 2014 ND before we get a chance for a decent number of picks and maybe some low enough to get what we want.
 
Clearly, until we know whether we are getting Adams and for what, as well as what other trades are happening, it's difficult to have much of a plan for the draft. But thinking in as general nature my wish list is:

pick 15 - either Adams (traded) or Sheed/Acres/Salem
pick early 20's (obtained via trade for Varcoe) - Sheed/Acres/Salem or Gardiner if he miraculously slips
pick 32 - McStay assuming we don't get Gardiner with an earlier pick
pick 50 - best available. If West goes then possibly a ruckman if any left show promise.

Doubt though that we will take 4 picks in this draft.
 
For pick #15 I would love Gardiner, then Freeman.

I would love us to attain another top 20ish pick so we could have both!

FWIW I would rather both the above than Taylor Adams, which is why I am averse to trading our first round pick for him.
 

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According to one of the phantom drafts I just read we end up with Darcy Gardiner, Tstias and another Bundy (brother - looks tiny at 66 kgs). How would those who follow such things see these pick ups ?
 
:thumbsu: Jester. Any chance of getting up a likely top 10 then a rundown of those who will likely be on our rd1 radar?

Well at this stage it seems like the top 5 will be some combination of Boyd, Scharenberg, Aish, Billings and Kelly. North will take Luke McDonald at 7. Beyond that I think we'll have to wait for the dust to settle from the combine a bit to see who fills in the gaps between there and #15, but generally the players I highlighted in the preview are a chance to be around there - hence why I didn't mention guys like Lewis Taylor, Marcus Bontempelli and Ben Lennon as they're generally tipped to be Top 10.
 
According to one of the phantom drafts I just read we end up with Darcy Gardiner, Tstias and another Bundy (brother - looks tiny at 66 kgs). How would those who follow such things see these pick ups ?

I like what I have read on Gardiner and Tsitas.
I can not find anything on Bundy Jr, other than he is a quick little goal sneak.
 
For pick #15 I would love Gardiner, then Freeman.

I would love us to attain another top 20ish pick so we could have both!

FWIW I would rather both the above than Taylor Adams, which is why I am averse to trading our first round pick for him.

100% agree and like you I'd prefer either (or both if we get another first rounder) to Adams.
 
If the phantom drafts are anything to go by Crouch and Sheed will be well gone by our first round pick as it stands today. In the write ups they sound just what w need - strong inside mids that get plenty of ball.
 
thejester Who do you think will take Scharenberg?

Hard to see him going past 3-4. Depends who ends up with Pick 2 and what the Saints see their most pressing need as.
 
From what I read it seems that the Pies, unless they do a straight swap for Adams will be compensated pick 11 for Thomas. So we get pick 16 as first rounder.

This ongoing kiddie gloves treatment with free agency compensation is a joke. Unless it's an Ablett to a new expansion team type scenario (where the player is moving due to a deal that, because of the concessions available to the new club, his existing one has no chance of matching it), the compensation to a team like Collingwood for losing Thomas is the 500k or so that they're going to have left in their salary cap. If I was in charge of things at Collingwood and the team that previously held pick #11 offered me that straight up for Thomas, I'd take it in a heartbeat. I'm over having the first round going into the early-mid 20s because of all these (completely unnecessary and undeserved) compensation picks.
 
This ongoing kiddie gloves treatment with free agency compensation is a joke. Unless it's an Ablett to a new expansion team type scenario (where the player is moving due to a deal that, because of the concessions available to the new club, his existing one has no chance of matching it), the compensation to a team like Collingwood for losing Thomas is the 500k or so that they're going to have left in their salary cap. If I was in charge of things at Collingwood and the team that previously held pick #11 offered me that straight up for Thomas, I'd take it in a heartbeat. I'm over having the first round going into the early-mid 20s because of all these (completely unnecessary and undeserved) compensation picks.

Couldn't agree more. Teams get the best years from a player then can re-load again. What a joke.
 
Hard to see him going past 3-4. Depends who ends up with Pick 2 and what the Saints see their most pressing need as.

Would love him to slide to our first pick. Won't happen.
 
I think pick 15 might get traded in a player deal (Shaw).
With a few possible trades we could end up with a couple of second round picks and maybe a third round one.
Pick 50 + 68 (or any late picks we end up with) rookie upgrades. (Walker & Burbury)
 
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