Geelong, Hawthorn and Sydney dominance - is there a problem?

[harmesy 37]

As an aside the existing Tasmania deal is $15m over 5 years inc. major sponsorship and package of 4 games in Tasmania. Where are you getting $20m from unless its hidden with the AFL memberships

You're not exactly good at this

This article from 2009 will assist with some of your basic mathematics problems.

http://wwos.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=794435

"The Hawks' membership in Tasmania stands at over 6,000, he said, when it was under 1,000 three years ago."

Regarding the 20 million.... you know there are benefits for Hawthorn other than just sponsorship? Hopefully you understand about things such as ground signage, merchandising, ...the payment they get for playing at Aurora Stadium, etc..please tell me you understand that.

The AFL will not stand up to Hawthorn- your team is too powerful, and the Tasmanian deal will continue. Meanwhile, people will drip feed to other sports as Hawthorn, North and Melbourne get AFL endorsed benefits.

The romance of the Sam Burgess Bunnies story far eclipses anything Hawthorn achieved this year via free agency, obtaining players such as Lake (who wanted premiership success and was pretty much guaranteed it at Hawthorn) etc huge profits and off field spending benefits. "Equalisation" is working extremely well for Hawthorn. LOL.

I find it amusing when Hawthorn supporters claimed Carlton "bought their premiership success" and yet turn a complete blind eye to the financial power that is Hawthorn and how that financial might has enabled them to get Lake, that ruckman from St Kilda, next cab off the rank - the Melbourne defender...

 

[Hawthorn1314]

This article from 2009 will assist with some of your basic mathematics problems.

http://wwos.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=794435

"The Hawks' membership in Tasmania stands at over 6,000, he said, when it was under 1,000 three years ago."

Regarding the 20 million.... you know there are benefits for Hawthorn other than just sponsorship? Hopefully you understand about things such as ground signage, merchandising, ...the payment they get for playing at Aurora Stadium, etc..please tell me you understand that.

The AFL will not stand up to Hawthorn- your team is too powerful, and the Tasmanian deal will continue. Meanwhile, people will drip feed to other sports as Hawthorn, North and Melbourne get AFL endorsed benefits.

The romance of the Sam Burgess Bunnies story far eclipses anything Hawthorn achieved this year via free agency, obtaining players such as Lake (who wanted premiership success and was pretty much guaranteed it at Hawthorn) etc huge profits and off field spending benefits. "Equalisation" is working extremely well for Hawthorn. LOL.

I find it amusing when Hawthorn supporters claimed Carlton "bought their premiership success" and yet turn a complete blind eye to the financial power that is Hawthorn and how that financial might has enabled them to get Lake, that ruckman from St Kilda, next cab off the rank - the Melbourne defender...

LOL

Where are our 10,000 to 15,000 Tasmanian members? But go ahead and post an anonymous article from 2009. According to the Hawthorn Annual Report Hawthorn had 8400 Tasmanian members out of 63,500 total members last year. According to that article Hawthorn has added 27000 members since 2008 and just 2700 of them have come from Tasmania.

Must be all those hidden AFL members Epic embarrassment right there...

As for the $20m you've made an interesting gambit there so quote or bullshit.

The extra $5m must have gone the way of those mysterious AFL memberships that you mentioned in your original post

I guess if Catlton spent as much time on developing a second market as they have trying to find a new sugar daddy and secure creative 3rd party agreements you might have more than 50,000 members and feature in September regularly (as you did in 2009-2011)

Carlton, Melbourne and Richmond have been hands down the biggest benefactors from this system you deride

 

[Hawthorn1314]

Also the supposed South Sydney fairy tale was only made possible thanks to an enormous cash injection by Russell Crowe and Peter Holmes a Court which in turn enabled Souths to raid Super League in the UK for talent. The irony of course is that if Souths were in the AFL and spent the equivalent in AFL terms they would be subject to the luxury tax. The Clive Churchill medalist you speak of was a UK import!

The true David v Golith was Cantebury that by ratio spent significantly less on facilities over the last 10 years, a club that is owned by the life blood not a Hollywood actor who sold their community leagues club. But of course the Rabbitohs (a club that sells home games to North Queensland and Perth) are far closer to Hawthorn model that you deride.

The root cause with all this is that the Hawks and for that matter the Cats have dominated the last 7 or 8 years and you are looking for an excuse why Carlton and co. haven't been able to match them. The reality is that its squarely to do with stability in club administration.

Every club doesn't have a pokie king not on the board launching hand grenades from the Gold Coast nor do they have factions on their board greater than the ALP. If you're looking at a cross competition link the only club that can excel in that environment is Manly who have won 2 competitions in 9 years despite members of their board not being on speaking terms.

The problem for Carlton isn't off field, they are a massive club, its squarely to do with administration. What other clubs could draw on 3 #1 draft picks in their starting 18?

 

[harmesy 37]

LOL

Where are our 10,000 to 15,000 Tasmanian members? But go ahead and post an anonymous article from 2009. According to the Hawthorn Annual Report Hawthorn had 8400 Tasmanian members out of 63,500 total members last year. According to that article Hawthorn has added 27000 members since 2008 and just 2700 of them have come from Tasmania.

Must be all those hidden AFL members Epic embarrassment right there...

As for the $20m you've made an interesting gambit there so quote or bullshit.

The extra $5m must have gone the way of those mysterious AFL memberships that you mentioned in your original post

I guess if Catlton spent as much time on developing a second market as they have trying to find a new sugar daddy and secure creative 3rd party agreements you might have more than 50,000 members and feature in September regularly (as you did in 2009-2011)

Carlton, Melbourne and Richmond have been hands down the biggest benefactors from this system you deride

"The club, which plays four home games in Launceston under the current contract, has almost 10,000 Tasmanian members." Greg Denham...

Before they started their AFL endorsed Tasmanian experiment they had less than 1,000 Tasmanian members. Hence, using basic mathematics it equals a massive membership benefit of approx 10,000 as a result of Hawthorn playing in Tasmania. If you want me to say 9,000 to make you happy I can do that.


if using an approximate example...

6 years of 6,000-10,000 extra members equals a lot of coin. Surely you understand this?
6 x 6,000...(for an example) equals coin.

Hawthorn has been in Tasmania since 2001 in various formats...13 plus years ...that adds up to a lot of coin in merchandising, signage, gate, clean advertising at the ground, not paying the equivalent of the Etithad owners money to play games at York Park etc... 5 million is conservative. And even someone utilising half a brain cell living in an Alaskan igloo far removed from football would realise this.

So with your posts you are basically saying the Tasmanian deal ISN'T financially important to Hawthorn, so I am guessing you are in favour of them not renewing the deal in 2016 then. No probs. business as usual for Hawthorn with our without support of Tasmania? Good on them for making this move and you being supportive of it.

Carlton getting draft picks (with half the spending of Hawthorn off-field 2008-2010 figuratively speaking) makes no difference when you don't have the support staff in recruitment etc to make your picks count. Financial power = might and power on the field. Carlton is still making losses 10 plus years after the salary cap issue. Hawthorn makes 2-3 million profit year after year. Which team would you prefer to join if you were a Frawley, McEvoy or a Lake? It isn't rocket science...even for a Hawthorn supporter.

 

[harmesy 37]

The problem for Carlton isn't off field, they are a massive club, its squarely to do with administration. What other clubs could draw on 3 #1 draft picks in their starting 18?

Carlton isn't a massive club. The AFL treats them as a "massive club" yet the facts are Carlton hasn't played in a preliminary final since 2000. Would a "massive club" have played in at least one preliminary since 2000? Even Richmond has played in a preliminary final after 2000.

As long as the AFL managment considers Carlton as a "massive club" and teams like Hawthorn as "battlers" then Carlton will continue to be screwed over...again and again.

 

[Hawthorn1314]

"The club, which plays four home games in Launceston under the current contract, has almost 10,000 Tasmanian members." Greg Denham...

Before they started their AFL endorsed Tasmanian experiment they had less than 1,000 Tasmanian members. Hence, using basic mathematics it equals a massive membership benefit of approx 10,000 as a result of Hawthorn playing in Tasmania. If you want me to say 9,000 to make you happy I can do that.


if using an approximate example...

6 years of 6,000-10,000 extra members equals a lot of coin. Surely you understand this?
6 x 6,000...(for an example) equals coin.

Hawthorn has been in Tasmania since 2001 in various formats...13 plus years ...that adds up to a lot of coin in merchandising, signage, gate, clean advertising at the ground, not paying the equivalent of the Etithad owners money to play games at York Park etc... 5 million is conservative. And even someone utilising half a brain cell living in an Alaskan igloo far removed from football would realise this.

So with your posts you are basically saying the Tasmanian deal ISN'T financially important to Hawthorn, so I am guessing you are in favour of them not renewing the deal in 2016 then. No probs. business as usual for Hawthorn with our without support of Tasmania? Good on them for making this move and you being supportive of it.

Carlton getting draft picks (with half the spending of Hawthorn off-field 2008-2010 figuratively speaking) makes no difference when you don't have the support staff in recruitment etc to make your picks count. Financial power = might and power on the field. Carlton is still making losses 10 plus years after the salary cap issue. Hawthorn makes 2-3 million profit year after year. Which team would you prefer to join if you were a Frawley, McEvoy or a Lake? It isn't rocket science...even for a Hawthorn supporter.

As I have pointed out Hawthorn has 8700 members in Tasmania, not approximately 10,000 but 8,700.

From the Hawthorn Annual Report last year (which is bit more creditable than Greg 'approx 10k' Denham)

http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/staticfile/AFL Tenant/Hawthorn/PDFs/HFC - Annual Report 2013.pdf

Membership has again continued the recent trend of the past few years, by continuing to grow at an outstanding rate of 4.1% to 63,353 (2012 – 60,841). This is a very pleasing result, and puts the Club on target towards our “All for One” goal of 80,000 members by 2017. Our Tasmanian members are an important contingent, with 8,567 members in 2013. Merchandise gross sales reached $3.7m in 2013, growth of 19%. (2012: $3.1m), which is a pleasing outcome for the first year of the adidas partnership.

So I ask the question, if we were to leave Tasmania how would we lose 10,000 to 15,000 members when we don't even have that many members in Tasmania?

On a side note if we were to return the games to Melbourne you do know that the club would immediately increase the price of MCG membership by 40% to make up for the extra 4 games in Melbourne and our Melbourne based members vastly outnumber any loss from Tasmania

The deal in Tasmania is great don't get me wrong but the way some act, its as if some think it has made the club. If Carlton think they can service Tasmania better they should have a crack, ditto North Melbourne. Its up to the Tasmanian government to get the best ROI

 

[Hawthorn1314]

On a side note, given Hawthorn is one of 3 clubs (along with West Coast and Collingwood) to get wacked with the luxury tax to the tune of $800,000 the Hawks are most certainly NOT treated like a 'battler' LOL

 

[Foxx1]

Carlton isn't a massive club. The AFL treats them as a "massive club" yet the facts are Carlton hasn't played in a preliminary final since 2000. Would a "massive club" have played in at least one preliminary since 2000? Even Richmond has played in a preliminary final after 2000.

As long as the AFL managment considers Carlton as a "massive club" and teams like Hawthorn as "battlers" then Carlton will continue to be screwed over...again and again.

You just hate Hawthorn don't you man, like despise the club deeply. So many articles to link and quote, the research you've done based on jealousy and hate has to be commended. The one thing you forget is that Tasmania has live AFL football because of the Hawthorn deal and the financial return for Tassie is massive. It's a win for football too. The simple fact is your club is operated by old school idiots who don't have the foresight or ingenuity to make deals like that happen but you already know this. Carlton are more likely to cheat than to invest in the game itself, history proves that. B2B baby!!!!

 

[Davo23]

Would people stop referring to the "Sam Burgess fairy tale"? Sam Burgess is a decent player but he's been elevated to God-like status on the back of his fractured cheekbone. Its their first success in 40 years and they will go back to being like Carlton next year!

There's only one reason that Souths are even a half decent team, and his name is Greg Inglis!
Greg Inglis is an absolute superstar, and the success that Queensland and Melbourne Storm have had is testament to this. The rest of Souths could have been recruited by the Carlton recruiters.

 

[Crazy John]

9 of the last 11 flags shared between these three sides.

10 of the last 11 Grand Finals have featured at least one of these sides.

Geelong are set to land Dangerfield, Selwood and Henderson.

Sydney are set to add Dunkley and Mills.

Equalisation is working

 

[Bayer_]

9 of the last 11 flags shared between these three sides.

10 of the last 11 Grand Finals have featured at least one of these sides.

Geelong are set to land Dangerfield, Selwood and Henderson.

Sydney are set to add Dunkley and Mills.

Equalisation is working

Sydney are up the creek.

 

[Crazy John]

Sydney are up the creek.

How?

 

[Bayer_]

How?

Nearly a quarter of their cap tied up in an average forward/ruck, and a bloke who may never play again. Broke the bank re-signing Hanneberry, now where to? No defence, top heavy and scant forward line, only a midfield that could be considered elite.

 

[Roddy]

It's really quite simple. There are very strong equalisation measures in place, the AFL can't really do much more in this regard without going overboard on it. What other clubs must do is raise their levels to beat us. Work harder, be more innovative, devise new tactics, be stronger in player development. These things don't necessarily cost lots of money, they just require thinking outside the square a little.

We are not massively successful because we're rich, because we're 'lucky' (as some utter morons have suggested in here), because of Tassie, because of free agency, because of the trade table, because of some fictional 'lack of competition' or any other such factor. We are successful because 10-12 years ago we were at absolute rock bottom, cellar dwellers, easy-beats. The club went outside of its comfort zone and recruited an unknown coach with left of centre ideas, even when a bunch of Hawk favourite sons were available. That coach then had the balls to completely bottom out, even when it threatened to cost him his job. He cut away the dead wood and brought everything back to its lowest common denominator. Short term pain for long term gain was his mantra, and now it's paid off in spades beyond spades.

Clubs need to be willing to bottom out, select an innovative coach outside their boys club, and generally take a step back to take 10 steps forward.

 

[Power Raid]

9 of the last 11 flags shared between these three sides.

10 of the last 11 Grand Finals have featured at least one of these sides.

Geelong are set to land Dangerfield, Selwood and Henderson.

Sydney are set to add Dunkley and Mills.

Equalisation is working

12 of the last 15 shared between 4 sides

33 of the last 49 shared between 5 sides

42 of the last 49 shared between 8 sides


equalisation needs to be tweaked but we have seen dominant sides from the late 90s like Roos, Crows, Dons, Lions, Pies, Saints, Power, Swans, Eagles, Cats, Pies again, Saints again, Hawks and Freo all have there time in the sun.

 

[NaturalDisaster]

This isn't primary school where "everyone gets a go"

If it were a different team every year, then no team would really go down in history as a great would they?

It would be more boring without some sort of dominance imo

 

[Inspector Malceski]

Did anyone have a concern when Brisbane scored 3 out of 4 GFs?

Did you not see the continued massive hissy fits that Eddie McGuire display during the 2000's

 

[Power Raid]

Did you not see the continued massive hissy fits that Eddie McGuire display during the 2000's

eddie has a hissy fit about everything

 

[AG]

Nearly a quarter of their cap tied up in an average forward/ruck, and a bloke who may never play again. Broke the bank re-signing Hanneberry, now where to? No defence, top heavy and scant forward line, only a midfield that could be considered elite.

Agree on a few things but Tippett is harshly judged. He was the best forward/ruck in the comp for the last two months of the season. Plays like that for most of next year and he is agruably AA.

If we can snag a 1st ruck and key defender in the trade period, then we are looking ok for top 4 again.

Obviously I am assuming buddy comes back but I have no idea what to assume with him.

 

[Mitchell19]

9 of the last 11 flags shared between these three sides.

10 of the last 11 Grand Finals have featured at least one of these sides.

Geelong are set to land Dangerfield, Selwood and Henderson.

Sydney are set to add Dunkley and Mills.

Equalisation is working

I read things like this every now and then but I think it's a bit of a narrow analysis personally.

Yes not EVERYONE has won a flag but that's due to great teams/clubs standing up on the biggest day, not lack of opportunities for some clubs. To show equalisation is in fact working consider these facts:

(Lets exclude the two expansion teams for this discussion given their infancy)

- 10 of the 16 teams have played in Preliminary finals (so in it up to their teeth for a flag!) since just 2010

- ALL 16 teams (Yes even Tigers!) have played in a prelim final since 2000.

If we want it just to be that everyone wins a flag then lets call off the season and award the flag to each team alphabetically each year. Now that's truly equalisation.

 

[Power Raid]

Agree on a few things but Tippett is harshly judged. He was the best forward/ruck in the comp for the last two months of the season. Plays like that for most of next year and he is agruably AA.

If we can snag a 1st ruck and key defender in the trade period, then we are looking ok for top 4 again.

Obviously I am assuming buddy comes back but I have no idea what to assume with him.

yep, the swans aren't too far away from the mark.

the buddy issue is an unknown at this stage. fingers crossed for him and the club that things resolve themselves.

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

No it's not a problem. History has always had strong teams.

Pies have collapsed, Geelong are collapsing and Hawthorn will collapse in the not too distant future (could be next year). Sydney have lost their COLA so they'll bottom out eventually.

 

[Kwality]

9 of the last 11 flags shared between these three sides.

10 of the last 11 Grand Finals have featured at least one of these sides.

Geelong are set to land Dangerfield, Selwood and Henderson.

Sydney are set to add Dunkley and Mills.

Equalisation is working

Get the ducks in line & you can make the top 8 & from there the team, both on & off field can drag you further IMHO.

 

[McCrann]

9 of the last 11 flags shared between these three sides.

10 of the last 11 Grand Finals have featured at least one of these sides.

Geelong are set to land Dangerfield, Selwood and Henderson.

Sydney are set to add Dunkley and Mills.

Equalisation is working

Hawthorn are the oldest Premiership team in history. Watch how they crash out of finals contention now over the next few years ala Geelong 2011-2015.

 

[JackOutback]

When the end comes, it can come very quickly.