Banter Geelong V Richmond - GO!

[Wosh]

In the interests of keeping your back and forth shite fights out of match threads so normal people can talk.

Keep it clean and above the shorts
Off topic rubbish clogging up match threads will be moved here, knock yourselves out.

 

[PhatBoy]

What about our Cat B rookies and mid season draft picks? Debate ends really once you put them in.

I still don’t get what the cats obsession is with draft picks. When you are bad you get better picks that’s the way the draft works and it’s fair for everybody. You just finished 12th and got better picks than everybody above you, that’s the way it works.

Because you’ve literally spent the last few pages trying to tell anyone who will listen how good your club is because their entire list of premiership players came from the rookie list and how Geelong has only been good because three past players got their end away 40 years ago

 

[STPer18]

Honest the Dusty trade was better than anything Geelong did. Steal even though it was pick 3.

Martin was pick 3 in the 2009 draft, held a couple of months after Geelong just won another premiership that year. You're starting to see a pattern here, right? And we still came out alright with Mitch Duncan at pick 28.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Because you’ve literally spent the last few pages trying to tell anyone who will listen how good your club is because their entire list of premiership players came from the rookie list and how Geelong has only been good because three past players got their end away 40 years ago

When did I say the entire list?

Your core group of players are usually high picks then it’s the role players to get value out of off.

I think the Nank, Prestia and Caddy deal plus Dustys risky pick was better than anything Geelong did. It’s primarily what made the 3 flags really. In both cases we were ridiculed for those trades/picks.

 

[PhatBoy]

It’s the later picks that we picks that made us good. Grimes, Picket, soldo etc

The Prestia, Nank, Caddy team really built us into a premiership team. It was a mastertroke deal when everybody criticised it at the time.

Bolton with 29 a great pick.

Then lynch with FA was a create call too.

Picking Dusty and Cotchin were great picks. We risked Dusty and it paid off. Dees didn’t want to touch him.

Honest the Dusty trade was better than anything Geelong did. Steal even though it was pick 3.

The funniest part about this last comment is this:

Wow, you used a top 3 pick to secure a star: what an amazing piece of drafting that was.

Many people will argue that the most crucial piece of our premiership puzzle was Brad Ottens. We got him from - wait for it - Richmond.
Who spent the two picks they got from us - picks 12 and 16 (they asked for a top 10 pick but gave up) on Danny Meyer and Adam Pattinson. Who managed 92 games between them.

But yeah the Dusty ‘trade’ was better than any deal Geelong every did.

 

[PhatBoy]

When did I say the entire list?

Your core group of players are usually high picks then it’s the role players to get value out of off.

I think the Nank, Prestia and Caddy deal plus Dustys risky pick was better than anything Geelong did. It’s primarily what made the 3 flags really. In both cases we were ridiculed for those trades/picks.

It sounds like that’s what you’re saying given the thunder-flog you’re having over it.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Martin was pick 3 in the 2009 draft, held a couple of months after Geelong just won another premiership that year. You're starting to see a pattern here, right? And we still came out alright with Mitch Duncan at pick 28.

Pattern of what? Duncan is a pretty standard pick 28. We got Bolton for 29.

I think your best pick was Stewart. But other than that nothing was super amazing. Cameron was good but you paid heaps so it was expected.

 

[PhatBoy]

Pattern of what? Duncan is a pretty standard pick 28. We got Bolton for 29.

I think your best pick was Stewart. But other than that nothing was super amazing. Cameron was good but you paid heaps so it was expected.

Thought the six time all Australian, two time premiership-year best and fairest we drafted at 47 was handy.

 

[Cleansweep17]

It sounds like that’s what you’re saying given the thunder-flog you’re having over it.

Look our whole dynasty was built around pretty much a bunch of average roles players with 5ish stars in it. Fadge doesn’t rate the list, so it shows how good we were with drafting to still get it done. That was like our thing.

I honestly don’t believe you think Geelong does anything wrong and is the best at everything. It’s getting annoying as everything turns into a fight.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Thought the six time all Australian, two time premiership-year best and fairest we drafted at 47 was handy.

Would be great if it was recent and relevant to the thread topic. It’s about 2024 and beyond. Not 20/25 years ago.

 

[PhatBoy]

Look our whole dynasty was built around pretty much a bunch of average roles players with 5ish stars in it. Fadge doesn’t rate the list, so it shows how good we were with drafting to still get it done. That was like our thing.

I honestly don’t believe you think Geelong does anything wrong and is the best at everything. It’s getting annoying as everything turns into a fight.

You don’t get it do you.

It’s your constant ‘you are shit, you only won because of this, this doesn’t count, he can’t have been any good, Richmond are OBVIOUSLY way better at every single aspect of everything that’s ever taken place in football’ that people pull you up on.

I’ve not said anything of the sort about Geelong.

We get things wrong. If we didn’t we’d have as many flags as the teams who’ve won more.
We would be reigning premiers right now.

It’s your insistence on using black and white judgements to shit on anything that isn’t black and yellow that people don’t like and as long as you keep doing it, I’ll keep shitting on your stupid commentary.

 

[STPer18]

Pattern of what? Duncan is a pretty standard pick 28. We got Bolton for 29.

I think your best pick was Stewart. But other than that nothing was super amazing. Cameron was good but you paid heaps so it was expected.

The pattern of the last two drafts we've discussed. I'll spell it out.

2007 draft Richmond take Cotchin at pick 2 and Rance as a priority pick, Geelong won the premiership.
2009 draft Richmond take Martin at pick 3, Geelong won the premiership.

You're making it out as if Richmond pulled off what nobody else, crying about father sons and claiming Dustie being drafted was some amazing coup when we were left picking from the scraps courtesy of us winning premierships in those years while Richmond were busy falling over their own feet. That's literally the system, you get given stuff for being crap.

 

[Cleansweep17]

You don’t get it do you.

It’s your constant ‘you are s**t, you only won because of this, this doesn’t count, he can’t have been any good, Richmond are OBVIOUSLY way better at every single aspect of everything that’s ever taken place in football’ that people pull you up on.

I’ve not said anything of the sort about Geelong.

We get things wrong. If we didn’t we’d have as many flags as the teams who’ve won more.
We would be reigning premiers right now.

It’s your insistence on using black and white judgements to s**t on anything that isn’t black and yellow that people don’t like and as long as you keep doing it, I’ll keep shitting on your stupid commentary.

Except I don’t. I’m just being real. It’s factual, they changed the f/s rules because of you guys as they were unfair. I didn’t make it up. You just don’t like it. Did this event take place or not?

 

[Cleansweep17]

The pattern of the last two drafts we've discussed. I'll spell it out.

2007 draft Richmond take Cotchin at pick 2 and Rance as a priority pick, Geelong won the premiership.
2009 draft Richmond take Martin at pick 3, Geelong won the premiership.

You're making it out as if Richmond pulled off what nobody else, crying about father sons and claiming Dustie being drafted was some amazing coup when we were left picking from the scraps courtesy of us winning premierships in those years while Richmond were busy falling over their own feet. That's literally the system, you get given stuff for being crap.

Who was pick 1 and pick 1&2 in the 07 and 09 drafts?

Exactly. We took the risk with Dusty and turned him into the best ever finals player. He could’ve rotted away at GWS or North for huge money but we got him to stay. So no I don’t think any other club could’ve done that. Especially not you guys who couldn’t keep GAJ.

 

[STPer18]

Who was pick 1 and pick 1&2 in the 07 and 09 drafts?

Exactly. We took the risk with Dusty and turned him into the best ever finals player. He could’ve rotted away at GWS or North for huge money but we got him to stay. So no I don’t think any other club could’ve done that. Especially not you guys who couldn’t keep GAJ.

Your new 'gotcha' is that while we were winning flags your club was stockpiling top 2/3 picks and priority picks for being shit, and that's supposed to be impressive and worthy of respect. I'll let this one stew for a bit.

 

[PhatBoy]

M

Except I don’t. I’m just being real. It’s factual, they changed the f/s rules because of you guys as they were unfair. I didn’t make it up. You just don’t like it. Did this event take place or not?

So what? Does that mean we didn’t win? Were the rules not fair and square? Everybody else had access to the same rule I thought. Did they or not?
They changed the rule, big deal. We still would have drafted Tom Hawkins, it doesn’t change that fact.
They changed the stand rule after you guys won the comp.
Does that mean your flags don’t count

F**ken hell

Is this what you’re reduced to?

They changed the rules for the west indies
They changed the rules for Walter Lindrum
They changed the rules for St George: before they won 11 comps in a row there was no such thing as 6 tackle rugby league, you just kept going until you either scored or the other team got the ball off you.

Who cares!

 

[PhatBoy]

Who was pick 1 and pick 1&2 in the 07 and 09 drafts?

Exactly. We took the risk with Dusty and turned him into the best ever finals player. He could’ve rotted away at GWS or North for huge money but we got him to stay. So no I don’t think any other club could’ve done that. Especially not you guys who couldn’t keep GAJ.

Of course we couldn’t, we had just won 2 flags, you guys hadn’t. How are they even comparable scenarios

The fact that you are comparing them is why people take the piss out of you mate.

On one hand you’ve got a club with two flags, stacked with all Australian players, who are trying to somehow make room for the best player in the game, who has a club backed by the afl offering him nearly $2 million a season.

On the other you have a club who have won nothing, who have a mildly talented list but with nowhere near the amount of established stars on nowhere near the amount of money across the club, so they aren’t nearly as hard to retain, competing with North Melbourne who to be fair, aren’t able to offer the same as what the Suns did for Ablett (Ablett went for 1.9, the Roos offered 1.38). The Cats could only offer a little under a million for Ablett, the Tigers could afford 1.2 for Martin based on every article I’ve read.

Not exactly apples and apples is it

 

[Cleansweep17]

Your new 'gotcha' is that while we were winning flags your club was stockpiling top 2/3 picks and priority picks for being s**t, and that's supposed to be impressive and worthy of respect. I'll let this one stew for a bit.

You do realise you will eventually go shit and get the same benefit right? You could draft the next Ablett with it, would you then complain? No, so stfu with this weird argument.

 

[Cleansweep17]

M


So what? Does that mean we didn’t win? Were the rules not fair and square? Everybody else had access to the same rule I thought. Did they or not?
They changed the rule, big deal. We still would have drafted Tom Hawkins, it doesn’t change that fact.
They changed the stand rule after you guys won the comp.
Does that mean your flags don’t count

F**ken hell

Is this what you’re reduced to?

They changed the rules for the west indies
They changed the rules for Walter Lindrum
They changed the rules for St George: before they won 11 comps in a row there was no such thing as 6 tackle rugby league, you just kept going until you either scored or the other team got the ball off you.

Who cares!

Nah the flags technically count but I personally wouldn’t feel right winning them with an unfair advantage like that. You are different and can live with it I guess, fair enough.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Of course we couldn’t, we had just won 2 flags, you guys hadn’t. How are they even comparable scenarios

The fact that you are comparing them is why people take the piss out of you mate.

On one hand you’ve got a club with two flags, stacked with all Australian players, who are trying to somehow make room for the best player in the game, who has a club backed by the afl offering him nearly $2 million a season.

On the other you have a club who have won nothing, who have a mildly talented list but with nowhere near the amount of established stars on nowhere near the amount of money across the club, so they aren’t nearly as hard to retain, competing with North Melbourne who to be fair, aren’t able to offer the same as what the Suns did for Ablett (Ablett went for 1.9, the Roos offered 1.38). The Cats could only offer a little under a million for Ablett, the Tigers could afford 1.2 for Martin based on every article I’ve read.

Not exactly apples and apples is it

North were offering the biggest $ deal ever made. I think Martin took $200k a year off for 7 years. So lost $1.4m, we negotiated good enough to keep him with our good culture. So no I don’t think any other club could’ve done that.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Your new 'gotcha' is that while we were winning flags your club was stockpiling top 2/3 picks and priority picks for being s**t, and that's supposed to be impressive and worthy of respect. I'll let this one stew for a bit.

Richmond had 3 x top 3 picks in that period. We drafted 1. Deledio, 2. Cotchin 3. Martin.

Now go and have a look at the 33 x top 3 picks 2000-09.

2000 - N Riewoldt, Koschitzke, Didak
2001 - Hodge, Ball, Judd
2002 - Goddard,Wells, Brennan
2003 - Cooney, Walker, Sylvia
2004 - Deledio, Roughead, Griffen
2005 - Murphy, Thomas, Ellis
2006 - Gibbs, Gumbleton, Hansen
2007 - Kreuzer, Cotchin, Mastern
2008 - Watts, Naitanui, Hill
2009 - Scully, Trengove, Martin
2010 - Swallow, Bennell, Day

You don't just get automatically gifted great players because you have a top 3 pick. 12 of the 33, the ones I highlighted in red, I would say were straight out disappointing for top 3 picks, some naturally for reasons to do with injury. Those 10 not bolded or in red were probably ok for a top 3 pick without achieving anything too great overall in their careers. And the 11 bolded are the players you would probably say had very strong careers. Richmond had 3 attempts at it and got 3 in the top 33% with those picks, arguably including the best of the lot in Martin. That Richmond did that with a hugely under-staffed recruiting department is a real feather in the cap of the club's recruiters.

 

[PhatBoy]

Nah the flags technically count but I personally wouldn’t feel right winning them with an unfair advantage like that. You are different and can live with it I guess, fair enough.

Bahahahahaha.
Yes of course you wouldn’t.
‘Oh boo hoo however will I celebrate these flags knowing that four per cent of our named team in three of them was going to be a sought after player that we would have had to give up some draft capital for under current rules oh no save me Jesus from this feeling of sadness and discomfort’

Yeah no that’s exactly how you’d feel I’m sure.

 

[PhatBoy]

North were offering the biggest $ deal ever made. I think Martin took $200k a year off for 7 years. So lost $1.4m, we negotiated good enough to keep him with our good culture. So no I don’t think any other club could’ve done that.

Yes it was the biggest deal ever made because it was for longer. The suns deal was for 5 years. It was for over half a million more per season than what North Melbourne were offering Dustin Martin.

 

[Fadge]

You don't just get automatically gifted great players because you have a top 3 pick. 12 of the 33, the ones I highlighted in red, I would say were straight out disappointing for top 3 picks, some naturally for reasons to do with injury. Those 10 not bolded or in red were probably ok for a top 3 pick without achieving anything too great overall in their careers. And the 11 bolded are the players you would probably say had very strong careers.

Deledio bolded; Ball, Cooney and Thomas not bolded.

But no bias there.

......arguably including the best of the lot in Martin.

Let me guess which solitary team's supporters would be arguing Martin ahead of Judd?

We then have N. Riewoldt and Hodge who I'd personally also rate ahead of Martin, so I'll give you top 5.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Yes it was the biggest deal ever made because it was for longer. The suns deal was for 5 years. It was for over half a million more per season than what North Melbourne were offering Dustin Martin.

Either way it was massive. Almost nobody would voluntarily give up $1.4m for just a small chance of some more flags. At that stage we were unlikely to win 2017 as well. If that isn’t good deal by the club idk what it. Keeping your drafted players and managing your cap is also a skill.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Bahahahahaha.
Yes of course you wouldn’t.
‘Oh boo hoo however will I celebrate these flags knowing that four per cent of our named team in three of them was going to be a sought after player that we would have had to give up some draft capital for under current rules oh no save me Jesus from this feeling of sadness and discomfort’

Yeah no that’s exactly how you’d feel I’m sure.

Don’t forget the rigged ground. I honestly don’t know how you do it man. You’d be a great CEO steamrolling everybody in your way, morals out the window.