No Oppo Supporters General AFL and other clubs discussion thread. **Opposition fans not welcome** Part 7

[Pessimistic]

I was one of those idiots. Have learned my lessons!

‘it appears dusty was ‘misunderstood’ or grew up. Not so sure about JDG. The funny thing is bucks came in as coach and cleared out the ‘rat pack’ but only appears to have replaced them with the ‘shit pack’. Spent several years outside the finals to achieve that.

renewal

 

[Ned Ryerson]

‘it appears dusty was ‘misunderstood’ or grew up. Not so sure about JDG. The funny thing is bucks came in as coach and cleared out the ‘rat pack’ but only appears to have replaced them with the ‘sh*t pack’. Spent several years outside the finals to achieve that.

renewal

Dusty went from threatening a woman at a restaurant in December 2015 to playing one of the most dominant seasons on record and winning every major player accolade in 2017. All of this in about the same age bracket as De Goey is in now. I would obviously be wanting to the club to proceed with caution - but I think it is potentially premature to just completely write off JDGs redemption story should his NYC dramas be as stated and instigated by other parties.

 

[grumbleguts]

Dusty went from threatening a woman at a restaurant in December 2015 to playing one of the most dominant seasons on record and winning every major player accolade in 2017. All of this in about the same age bracket as De Goey is in now. I would obviously be wanting to the club to proceed with caution - but I think it is potentially premature to just completely write off JDGs redemption story should his NYC dramas be as stated and instigated by other parties.

This is where I differ from most. The man is in a major national sport, he MUST be taken to task as a role model. I know people on here are saying they'd take dusty in a heartbeat, but you threaten a woman in a restaurant, you don't get invited to my place for dinner ever. There's no redemption, there's no growth arc. You're done. You don't come back. In normal life, yes but not when you are in a position to be a national role model. Or international as Ben Stokes is. Mayhap, I'm too harsh, but he's not parking cars for a living.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

This is where I differ from most. The man is in a major national sport, he MUST be taken to task as a role model. I know people on here are saying they'd take dusty in a heartbeat, but you threaten a woman in a restaurant, you don't get invited to my place for dinner ever. There's no redemption, there's no growth arc. You're done. You don't come back. In normal life, yes but not when you are in a position to be a national role model. Or international as Ben Stokes is. Mayhap, I'm too harsh, but he's not parking cars for a living.

Disagree personally. I won't be encouraging my future kid that athletes are role models because I know they, like me, are fallible human beings. I know that is likely naïve and easier said than done - but I will always let me kids know that footy players are to be admired on the field but that doesn't necessarily mean you use them as an example of how to engage as a member of society.

Money and status doesn't automatically erase people's potential failings and in some cases can just enhance them because you get a kid with issues who then gets given fame, adulation and a stack of coin and no structure or guidance when let loose outside the confines of the club. For that reason I don't jump to hang players on the role model thing first and foremost. You cut Dusty adrift in 2015 and his life spirals from there - what good have you done him? The club gets around him - has Cotchin mentor him and he's escaped the controversy and become an absolute beast of a player with 3 Norm Smith's to his name.

 

[derp de derp]

Disagree personally. I won't be encouraging my future kid that athletes are role models because I know they, like me, are fallible human beings. I know that is likely naïve and easier said than done - but I will always let me kids know that footy players are to be admired on the field but that doesn't necessarily mean you use them as an example of how to engage as a member of society.

Money and status doesn't automatically erase people's potential failings and in some cases can just enhance them because you get a kid with issues who then gets given fame, adulation and a stack of coin and no structure or guidance when let loose outside the confines of the club. For that reason I don't jump to hang players on the role model thing first and foremost. You cut Dusty adrift in 2015 and his life spirals from there - what good have you done him? The club gets around him - has Cotchin mentor him and he's escaped the controversy and become an absolute beast of a player with 3 Norm Smith's to his name.

A high profile footballer in the age of social media means they are a role model/influencer.

Clubs need to invoke a NDP clause to filter out these dregs


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Ned Ryerson]

A high profile footballer in the age of social media means they are a role model/influencer.

Clubs need to invoke a NDP clause to filter out these dregs


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well that's genuinely up to families to stop kids from idolising actors, influencers, musicians and sports people. There's a good number of the upper echelon of sports starts who are absolutely cooked units who you probably wouldn't be telling people to emulate. I don't think athletes should have to wear that responsibility that others have put on them.

If they act in a criminal manner (Patton last year as an example) then yes that's absolutely not something I want at my club. If JDG was found to have groped this woman then I wouldn't be as open minded about his hypothetical recruitment. If his only failing is being a bit of a pisshead - I honestly think clubs can work with that as they probably have a decent contingent of players fitting that bill anyway. The stories I have heard about Buddy from his time at the club make him sound like an absolutely deplorable person in his younger days - but the club kept a lid on it and over time he has mostly kept his proverbial together and now has a wife and kid. Writing someone off so instantly in their mid-20s when they potentially haven't committed any kind of criminal offence seems a bit much for me - and as the Dusty situation has now shown, you are crazy to just cast a player aside when there's a huge upside to be had. Put simply - Richmond ditch Dusty in 2013 or 2015 and they are presently in their 41st year of a title drought.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

If you have a big profile people will consider you a role model. You don't get to choose it, but it's a power that you're responsible for.

If they get on the sauce, post it on insta and the club still hires them it says "look - you can have it all! The drugs, the high paying job, the superstar physique".

Personally - in the workplace I'm really into the idea that unless it interferes with your job, it's all good. Even in the case of politicians cheating on their wives - if they're still writing good public policy that improves the lives of everyone in the country then go for it old mate. I'll judge you as a cheating prick that's a good politician.

But that's me. It ignores the fact that many people follow the lead of public figures. I don't think society treats them like gods anymore, but they still follow their lead. You can say "that's the fault of the people that follow". But if you filmed yourself snorting coke and knew a bunch (literally hundreds or thousands) of teenagers would see it, think it's wild and funny and then tell themselves that they can get away with a few midweek bags because all the elite sport stars, lawyers and advertising industry all do it - would you still film and post that?

With great power comes great responsibility.

 

[Bugs1977]

If you have a big profile people will consider you a role model. You don't get to choose it, but it's a power that you're responsible for.

If they get on the sauce, post it on insta and the club still hires them it says "look - you can have it all! The drugs, the high paying job, the superstar physique".

Personally - in the workplace I'm really into the idea that unless it interferes with your job, it's all good. Even in the case of politicians cheating on their wives - if they're still writing good public policy that improves the lives of everyone in the country then go for it old mate. I'll judge you as a cheating prick that's a good politician.

But that's me. It ignores the fact that many people follow the lead of public figures. I don't think society treats them like gods anymore, but they still follow their lead. You can say "that's the fault of the people that follow". But if you filmed yourself snorting coke and knew a bunch (literally hundreds or thousands) of teenagers would see it, think it's wild and funny and then tell themselves that they can get away with a few midweek bags because all the elite sport stars, lawyers and advertising industry all do it - would you still film and post that?

With great power comes great responsibility.

Agreed. A lot of time when you're sifting through other peoples trash (ie DeGoey) that is exactly what you end up with … trash. When you take a look back at all the douchebags that have done similar stuff to him then they are either out of league or soon will be. Even if we had the chance to sign him it would be a hard pass for me. I have 3 young kids (2 daughters and son) that follow the club and as parents wether we like it or not they still look up to these players no matter what we tell them. Sorry Ned Ryerson but DeGoey doesn't deserve to ever don a HFC guernsey.

 

[Brishawk]

Obviously players are influential for kids, hence they are role models. But they are also brand ambassadors and players can be harmful enough to damage the brand of a club. This can make a club less appealing to members and sponsors alike. That hurts the bank balance directly and that is always very motivating for clubs, especially difficult times such as these.

 

[daniel23]

Behind the Bombers | The Essendon initiation

Go behind the scenes as the Bombers' draftees and other newcomers learn 'The Essendon Way' during their induction to the club.

www.essendonfc.com.au

I know it's the scum but it would be great if we got content like this from the club.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Dusty is someone that does a whole lot of work behind the scenes and away from the cameras. This stuff goes unpublished, mostly because that's the way he would like it to be. He's usually hanging around late to talk to kids.

From what I understand he is very different off-field compared to what people/average BigFooty posters believe him to be.

 

[TheFourPillars]

Dusty is someone that does a whole lot of work behind the scenes and away from the cameras. This stuff goes unpublished, mostly because that's the way he would like it to be. He's usually hanging around late to talk to kids.

From what I understand he is very different off-field compared to what people/average BigFooty posters believe him to be.

He may have changed as he has matured but there was a reason why Richmond wanted to offload dusty all those seasons ago.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Obviously players are influential for kids, hence they are role models. But they are also brand ambassadors and players can be harmful enough to damage the brand of a club. This can make a club less appealing to members and sponsors alike. That hurts the bank balance directly and that is always very motivating for clubs, especially difficult times such as these.

How do you think Richmond’s membership totals and bank balance would be faring if they hadn’t won 3 premierships recently? They wouldn’t have done that had they discarded Dusty.

We sold plenty of Buddy merchandise and 23 guernseys to kids and I can assure you he wasn’t remotely close to being an off-field role model for the majority of his time at our club. We were always happy to overlook the stories and rumours because he was donning our guernsey and playing freakishly.

 

[kirbatron]

Look at the draftees & what traits they have.. i just dont see JDG as someone that thry would be interested in getting

 

[Brishawk]

How do you think Richmond’s membership totals and bank balance would be faring if they hadn’t won 3 premierships recently? They wouldn’t have done that had they discarded Dusty.

We sold plenty of Buddy merchandise and 23 guernseys to kids and I can assure you he wasn’t remotely close to being an off-field role model for the majority of his time at our club. We were always happy to overlook the stories and rumours because he was donning our guernsey and playing freakishly.

Whatever buddy did, it didn’t make the media so had zero impact on the brand.

For some reason you are suggesting a role model has to be a good role model. They don’t. Anyone a child looks to and identifies with is functionally a role model wether or not you want them to be.

how about looking at all the times clubs did sack players to counter balance your ‘but dusty..’ argument? Fevola was nothing but a distraction for the lions but cut by Carlton because he was bad for their brand and a bad influence on the list. Sylvia never reached goat status while quite talented but problematic for the dees. Dees could probably should have cut him long before he left. Patton…. Garlett didn’t even make it through one year at hawthorn. I could go on…

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Whatever buddy did, it didn’t make the media so had zero impact on the brand.

For some reason you are suggesting a role model has to be a good role model. They don’t. Anyone a child looks to and identifies with is functionally a role model wether or not you want them to be.

how about looking at all the times clubs did sack players to counter balance your ‘but dusty..’ argument? Fevola was nothing but a distraction for the lions but cut by Carlton because he was bad for their brand and a bad influence on the list. Sylvia never reached goat status while quite talented but problematic for the dees. Dees could probably should have cut him long before he left. Patton…. Garlett didn’t even make it through one year at hawthorn. I could go on…

I’ve never said it was a risk free play or that we should just sign JDG if available. I’ve said I would hope the club considers it and does its due diligence. Yes there’s bad examples of prodigious talent not redeeming itself - but the Dusty case - and those who instantly dismissed him here (myself included for the reasons others are stating) should serve as a cautionary tale that you don’t just take an instant pass because a player has been a bit of a ratbag in their early career.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

No club wanted him …… amazing how Tigers supporters never bring this up!

Not really true.
North offered up big bucks. Martin accepted the terms, but it fell over due to Richmond wanting more in return.
They lucked out in the end

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Not really true.
North offered up big bucks. Martin accepted the terms, but it fell over due to Richmond wanting more in return.
They lucked out in the end

North went for him before the 2016 crazy offers? I never knew that.

 

[Argy]

Dusty went from threatening a woman at a restaurant in December 2015 to playing one of the most dominant seasons on record and winning every major player accolade in 2017. All of this in about the same age bracket as De Goey is in now. I would obviously be wanting to the club to proceed with caution - but I think it is potentially premature to just completely write off JDGs redemption story should his NYC dramas be as stated and instigated by other parties.

The reason Dusty's resurrection is noteworthy is because that sort of thing is so rare. There is no reason to think that "just because Dusty did it" De Geoy will too.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

The reason Dusty's resurrection is noteworthy is because that sort of thing is so rare. There is no reason to think that "just because Dusty did it" De Geoy will too.

Professional sports is absolutely littered with similar redemption arcs. Yes it’s also full of cautionary tales. It’s not a black and white thing - as I’ve said I’m not endorsing signing him carte blanche, just if the circumstances and price were both right then I’d be fine with the club looking into it.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Some of the Buddy shenanigans were suppressed. I can tell you how, he got up to a lot worse than what Dusty was reported as doing. No comparison.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

How do we all feel about Hodgey after his public drink driving indiscretion?

 

[TazHawk15]

How do we all feel about Hodgey after his public drunk driving indiscretion?

Just shitty Brissie Lions culture.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Some of the Buddy shenanigans were suppressed. I can tell you how he got up to a lot worse than what Dusty was reported as doing. No comparison.

The constant perception here that we have a list full of choirboys is amusing. There's a reason you should tell your kids the only emulation of athletes they should follow is on the field - because off the field they are human as anyone else, and highly paid, young humans with far more temptations than us mere mortals have at that.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

The constant perception here that we have a list full of choirboys is amusing. There's a reason you should tell your kids the only emulation of athletes they should follow is on the field - because off the field they are human as anyone else, and highly paid, young humans with far more temptations than us mere mortals have at that.

Agree completely.

Another aside - Hodgey got himself into some mischief when he was 21. That didn't stop him becoming one of the greatest leaders to ever play this game.

If we'd binned him then, just prior to his breakout season, then the whole course of the club would have been changed.