No Oppo Supporters General AFL and other clubs discussion thread. **Opposition fans not welcome** Part 7

[cryptor]

The constant perception here that we have a list full of choirboys is amusing. There's a reason you should tell your kids the only emulation of athletes they should follow is on the field - because off the field they are human as anyone else, and highly paid, young humans with far more temptations than us mere mortals have at that.

I'm under no illusions that a lot, if not most AFL players aren't "choirboys". And I'm not a parent so the whole role models thing don't really resonate with me.

My stance is I want this club to be successful on and off field and I want our club leadership to take calculated risks to achieve that outcome.

If Buddy Franklin is kicking big bags of goals to help us win games and flags and then going out every night of the week to play the STD lotto and whatever else and the club needs to employ a minder to ensure it doesn't hit headlines then it's worth it. But if it started regularly hitting headlines and becoming a distraction that impacted the performance of the team, or worse yet he stopped performing himself then things would have shifted too far on the risk/reward scale.

All clubs run the same model. This is why the super star players always seem to get whacked with a feather while it's the lesser known names that happen to be made examples of for the same or lesser indiscretions.

So when it comes to JDG and the question: "If he becomes available at a discount, do we take the chance?"
My opinion sits on the foundation that I don't see any realistic scenario where he becomes available at a discount where he hasn't been found guilty of something serious in relation to this incident or some other incident before next trade period. Collingwood won't dump for cheap unless that happens, and every other club won't be put off him unless that happens. In that instance I don't believe the risk/reward is worth it at any price. The reward being the chance he might have a Dusty-style awakening. The risk being that he comes into the club, doesn't change, negatively influences teammates/culture, is a distraction, hurts the club brand costing us money in membership and sponsorships. And I feel like the consequences of that risk are significantly more likely to eventuate than the payoff of that reward.

But that's just my risk assessment. It doesn't mean I don't believe JDG isn't capable of becoming like Dusty, or that I believe none our current players get into any trouble. And you and others might see the same risk/reward as I do but attribute better odds to the reward, which then in your eyes might make it seem worth it.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Dusty went from threatening a woman at a restaurant in December 2015 to playing one of the most dominant seasons on record and winning every major player accolade in 2017. All of this in about the same age bracket as De Goey is in now. I would obviously be wanting to the club to proceed with caution - but I think it is potentially premature to just completely write off JDGs redemption story should his NYC dramas be as stated and instigated by other parties.

It’s amazing what can go away when a bunch of Bikers turn up on your doorstep and tell you that you need to forget anything ever happened.

 

[TheFourPillars]

Google Image Result for https://content.api.news/v3/images/bin/2deb096e6e0ed5a6066d353447031d20

 

[TheFourPillars]

Google Image Result for https://content.api.news/v3/images/bin/2deb096e6e0ed5a6066d353447031d20

This bloke

 

[Hawkas1988]

Some of the Buddy shenanigans were suppressed. I can tell you how, he got up to a lot worse than what Dusty was reported as doing. No comparison.

One of my friends (lady) had a small interaction with him when he was quite younger and only a few years into his career.

She is a mad hawks fan. Let's just say she wasn't impressed with him or his behaviour.

Sent from my SM-G977B using Tapatalk

 

[theiaofseed]

Some of the Buddy shenanigans were suppressed. I can tell you how, he got up to a lot worse than what Dusty was reported as doing. No comparison.

What about the thing not reported about Dusty, there's enough to write a novel.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

It’s amazing what can go away when a bunch of Bikers turn up on your doorstep and tell you that you need to forget anything ever happened.

 

[TooOldTooSlowTooGood]

View attachment 1298649

Lol. I really hope you photoshopped that!

 

[Rhayader]

Browne confirmed as president as ticket gets up at Collingwood

Jeff Browne’s four-person ticket has swept to power at Collingwood with the former head of Nine announced as the new president of the Magpies on Friday.

www.theage.com.au

 

[Brishawk]

Buddy’s shenanigans were never in the media. Jdg has been in the media many times and had law enforcement involved. Ben cousins had terrible off field behaviour that didn’t make headlines. But when it did it cost him his captaincy and then eventually his career at west coast. Clarko be care about players welfare and them acting appropriately but they care a hell of a lot more about their brand. That is what motivates them to sanction player more than anything else.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Buddy’s shenanigans were never in the media. Jdg has been in the media many times and had law enforcement involved.

'I'm a bloody idiot': Franklin

Buddy Franklin will face the Hawks' leadership group after his driver's licence was suspended

www.afl.com.au

Franklin off course at grand prix

Incoherent and out-of-sorts Lance Franklin stumbled into corporate suite at Melbourne GP.

amp.theage.com.au

 

[Brishawk]

'I'm a bloody idiot': Franklin

Buddy Franklin will face the Hawks' leadership group after his driver's licence was suspended

www.afl.com.au

Franklin off course at grand prix

Incoherent and out-of-sorts Lance Franklin stumbled into corporate suite at Melbourne GP.

amp.theage.com.au

Honestly? What are you even arguing?

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Honestly? What are you even arguing?

You said Buddy’s shenanigans were never in the media - just demonstrating that wasn’t the case. He also had law enforcement involved because he was doing 90 in a 50 zone which is wreckless and potentially deadly behaviour.

If De Goey’s completely exonerated for the NY incident (noting the sexualised charges are already dropped) then I don’t see that much difference between his antics and Franklin’s.

 

[wahawk]

'I'm a bloody idiot': Franklin

Buddy Franklin will face the Hawks' leadership group after his driver's licence was suspended

www.afl.com.au

Franklin off course at grand prix

Incoherent and out-of-sorts Lance Franklin stumbled into corporate suite at Melbourne GP.

amp.theage.com.au

Some made the headlines, some didn’t.
I used to post on HHQ. I had very very reliable intel on Buddy that I posted on there but many others didn’t want to believe it.
I copped a massive amount of abuse to the point I stopped posting.

The main culprick is a bigfooty member but doesn’t post too often

I never really heard of ‘chopstick’ type incidents but not much of what I was told ever made it to the rumour stage let alone media.
It was more Cousins type stuff.
I have a mate that’s a former detective & another who’s still a detective, Eagles had very good friends in the force
Again, so much of what he did was never in the media. Some disappeared over night without the former detective even knowing, even though he was involved

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Some made the headlines, some didn’t.
I used to post on HHQ. I had very very reliable intel on Buddy that I posted on there but many others didn’t want to believe it.
I copped a massive amount of abuse to the point I stopped posting.

The main culprick is a bigfooty member but doesn’t post too often

I never really heard of ‘chopstick’ type incidents but not much of what I was told ever made it to the rumour stage let alone media.
It was more Cousins type stuff.
I have a mate that’s a former detective & another who’s still a detective, Eagles had very good friends in the force
Again, so much of what he did was never in the media. Some disappeared over night without the former detective even knowing, even though he was involved

People never want to hear it about players at their club. I’m realistic enough to know there’d be an element at every single club that would be the kinds of blokes I wouldn’t want to run into in a bar - and on the flip side there’s probably just as many who are decent blokes regardless of if they’re on the turps or doing some lines.

All I’d want from my club is that they’re educating players to be savvy, organising help and counselling for players if they need it and ensuring that blokes don’t have things get out of hand. It’s just the purest of naivety to pretend we wouldn’t have players who get up to the odd bit of mischief.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Some made the headlines, some didn’t.
I used to post on HHQ. I had very very reliable intel on Buddy that I posted on there but many others didn’t want to believe it.
I copped a massive amount of abuse to the point I stopped posting.

The main culprick is a bigfooty member but doesn’t post too often

I never really heard of ‘chopstick’ type incidents but not much of what I was told ever made it to the rumour stage let alone media.
It was more Cousins type stuff.
I have a mate that’s a former detective & another who’s still a detective, Eagles had very good friends in the force
Again, so much of what he did was never in the media. Some disappeared over night without the former detective even knowing, even though he was involved

I too know of something that happened, coincidentally, just prior to him having his time off for mental health reasons. Potentially the same thing you're referring to.

 

[Brishawk]

If De Goey’s completely exonerated for the NY incident (noting the sexualised charges are already dropped) then I don’t see that much difference between his antics and Franklin’s.

Either engage with what I posted or don’t reply.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Either engage with what I posted or don’t reply.

I did. You inaccurately stated Buddy’s indiscretions did not make the media - I’ve given you two examples from his time at Hawthorn when they did. You’ve then gone on a tangent about Cousins which has nothing to do with this argument because I don’t think at any stage people have suggested that De Goey has a meth addiction.

Buddy and De Goey are similar - both acting like flogs on the turps, but running afoul of the law (DUI vs instant license suspension excessive speeding). If De Goey is exonerated in NYC then I fail to see much difference between the two outside Buddy being a better player while both are still in the top echelon at their age.

 

[Brishawk]

Recall how yourself and J2S (and others) were posting about how bad buddy was but it was ‘rumours’ or ‘suppressed’? Please stop arguing that buddy’s behaviour was well and truly in the public spotlight when clearly most of what he did never made the media.

We sold plenty of Buddy merchandise and 23 guernseys to kids and I can assure you he wasn’t remotely close to being an off-field role model for the majority of his time at our club. We were always happy to overlook the stories and rumours because he was donning our guernsey and playing freakishly.

Some of the Buddy shenanigans were suppressed. I can tell you how, he got up to a lot worse than what Dusty was reported as doing. No comparison.

as for this…

Blah blah blah still missing the point.

my comment identified it is threat to brand which causes clubs to sack players. Jdg is clearly a threat to the Collingwood brand in a way buddy never was. You keep arguing that it is a moral judgment. It isn’t. That is not how clubs work. That is not the decision they make. You can have your own standard to judge him but clubs think differently about these things than you do.

Not being found guilty is not the same as being innocent and it certainly doesn’t fully offset the reputational damage that has already occurred.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Not being found guilty is not the same as being innocent and it certainly doesn’t fully offset the reputational damage that has already occurred.

I’ve said throughout this entire rolling debate that a hypothetical where I’d support the club looking at an available JDG would be on the basis of him being exonerated because the suggestion was the CCTV footage shows he did absolutely nothing wrong. If that’s the case - then yes it is the same as being innocent. Players shouldn’t be hung on the kangaroo court of the media otherwise we’d end up with a 2 team league with only one side able to field a full 22.

If he’s found guilty then I’m not at all keen. However - if the story about him not being involved is accurate then both times he’s been to court he’s had nothing to answer for. If that’s the case then his biggest sins are lying about a dog bite and a DUI - which puts him on a level with dozens of other V/AFL players.

You’re right about the commercial aspects - but plenty of clubs have given prodigious talents a second chance and not had sponsors run for the exits. For all the potential pearl clutchers - sponsors care more about their logo being on television and if we are winning games and have De Goey performing for us in prime time then nobody is going to be pulling their deal.

Richmond have stood by Dusty and recently stood by Sydney Stack and have never had it hurt their bottom line or membership tally - because nobody cares when you’re winning matches. Much like nobody cared that Buddy was a loose cannon because we were winning matches and he was kicking bags.

When there’s players running around in the NRL who’ve been convicted of sexual assault and domestic violence I won’t be perturbed if our club wants to take a look at the commitment of a bloke whose demeanours include hitting the drinks a bit too hard in their early-mid 20s.

 

[Bugs1977]

I did. You inaccurately stated Buddy’s indiscretions did not make the media - I’ve given you two examples from his time at Hawthorn when they did. You’ve then gone on a tangent about Cousins which has nothing to do with this argument because I don’t think at any stage people have suggested that De Goey has a meth addiction.

Buddy and De Goey are similar - both acting like flogs on the turps, but running afoul of the law (DUI vs instant license suspension excessive speeding). If De Goey is exonerated in NYC then I fail to see much difference between the two outside Buddy being a better player while both are still in the top echelon at their age.

The one huge difference I can see is that DeGoey is a Collingwood player that has known issues of being a douchebag whereas Buddy at the the time was a Hawthorn player and was our problem. Going out and obtaining a player that has shown an utter disregard for being a high profile professional AFL player will 99% of the time end in tears. As you’ve mentioned previously yes you do have the odd reclamation player like Dusty but is it worth the risk when it seems the player (DeGoey) has multiple upon multiple reoccurring offences.

FWIW we all heard the Buddy stories over the years and if DeGoey was doing a quarter of the stuff that he was doing then I think that any team that goes out and signs him will eventually be caught out chasing fools gold.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Going out and obtaining a player that has shown an utter disregard for being a high profile professional AFL player will 99% of the time end in tears. As you’ve mentioned previously yes you do have the odd reclamation player like Dusty but is it worth the risk when it seems the player (DeGoey) has multiple upon multiple reoccurring offences.

99% sounds like hyperbole to me.

And, again, if found to be completely faultless with the NYC incident - JDG's list of indiscretions stands at 2 - with the last of them being in 2018.

 

[Off The Couch]

I would like to see the club take up some sort of fundraiser for the Devonport families and community impacted by yesterday’s tragedy

 

[grumbleguts]

How do you think Richmond’s membership totals and bank balance would be faring if they hadn’t won 3 premierships recently? They wouldn’t have done that had they discarded Dusty.

We sold plenty of Buddy merchandise and 23 guernseys to kids and I can assure you he wasn’t remotely close to being an off-field role model for the majority of his time at our club. We were always happy to overlook the stories and rumours because he was donning our guernsey and playing freakishly.

My son was 6 in 2008, My mother bought him a guernsey and he asked for 15 on the back. We walked into a bait and tackle shop in tully, and the guy behind the counter was a massive hawks fan. He said "You got 23 on the back of that jumper?"
He wanted 15 because it had Hodge covered and te5 covered Mitchell as well. but the interaction made me ask why he chose Hodge or Mitchell over who everyone else was choosing. He said "He's not very bright."

99% sounds like hyperbole to me.

And, again, if found to be completely faultless with the NYC incident - JDG's list of indiscretions stands at 2 - with the last of them being in 2018.

Still has indiscretions though.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Still has indiscretions though.

So does Hodge, Matthews and Clarko. Wouldn't swap any of them.