General Trade Talk

[Obeanie1]

Re: Trades youd like to see your team make

LOL.

Well, I guess it is the 'trades you'd like to see your team make' thread ...

Surjan has been injured and has had serious issues with Motlop which has ended in court. Who knows which other players have taken sides / become involved. Surjan wanting a move back west with a new fresh start isn't unreasonable is it?

Pearce is the type of player the Eagles want, they believe a quick skillfull outside mid is the final piece of the puzzle in their midfield balance they don't have.

Both Surjan and Pearce are older than Ebert. Pearce is inconsistant, Surjan has injury concerns. Both lower your trade value.

SA fans have this romantic thing with the Ebert name, same as the Eagles with Matera playing for the Suns. What this means to his trade value who knows.

If Ebert improves his efficiency this season by 10 > 15% Port would swap for either of those two without even thinking.

 

[Powerade 08]

Re: Trades youd like to see your team make

Surjan is an AA standard defender who has only missed about 10 games in 4 years.

Pearce is as good as any small mid in the game. His inconsistency comes from not having the bigger bodied mids around to protect him.

Surjan and Pearce are in our top 5 players.

Ebert is borderline best 22 at West Coast and is everything wrong with the Port midfield bundled into one player. Don't want him here, ever. Enough said.

 

[Obeanie1]

Re: Trades youd like to see your team make

]You are totally deluded.[/B] The most you could get for that spud is a Thomas/Logan/Salter type, no matter who his uncle played for. Surjan and Pearce wouldn't even be considered.

Well that's the only way it would ever happen.

I'm deluded in thinking Surjan would seriously consider a change of clubs due to whats gone on?

If a player wants to be traded its not up to a club to "not consider it" its up to them to make the best out of the situation.

Anyway it won't take long to reassess who's decent and who isn't, round 2 I believe.

 

[philthy05]

Re: Trades youd like to see your team make

nothing to suggest surjan wanting to leave, just hopeful on your part and why not, he is excellent at that bp position and moving into the prime of his career.

has been reported an incident involving mots and surj, or to be more precise their partners. almost nothing else has been reported or said because it has been a non-issue. obviously both parties have been able to concentrate on their footy. yeah so nothing there to suggest surj will want out, especially if given there was tension im sure mots would be moved on 1st.

as for ebert he is a decent young player, not bad, can find a bit of the ball by covering space. i havent seem alot of him but can he win the ball in packs?? cause ball use isnt his strong point so will need something else in his game.

i guess if cassisi,boak, pearce, hartlett, gray, salopek, rodan, k.cornes need a spell he could be able to compete with jacobs, broadbent, pittard, irons, banner , thomas and logan for a chance to rotate into that midfield spot??

 

[SouthSwans]

Re: Trades youd like to see your team make

Lake for Mattner
Sandilands for Seaby
Ablett for Bevan
Swan for Moore
Franklin for 5th rounder

 

[Team DJ]

Re: Trades youd like to see your team make

The way Texas and Smack are looking. I wouldnt mind a half eaten pack of noodles for Tippett.
Hes now the weak link up there, and crowds it to much for the others.

 

[pazza]

Re: Trades youd like to see your team make

Dempsey and Dyson to GWS for Scully (who will go there) and a pick.

 

[dlanod]

Re: Trades youd like to see your team make

The way Texas and Smack are looking. I wouldnt mind a half eaten pack of noodles for Tippett.
Hes now the weak link up there, and crowds it to much for the others.

Walker's heading to GWS, so you might be lucky and get a half-eaten felafal.

</troll>

 

[TigerTime88]

Re: Trades youd like to see your team make

Surjan is an AA standard defender who has only missed about 10 games in 4 years.

Pearce is as good as any small mid in the game. His inconsistency comes from not having the bigger bodied mids around to protect him.

Surjan and Pearce are in our top 5 players.

Ebert is borderline best 22 at West Coast and is everything wrong with the Port midfield bundled into one player. Don't want him here, ever. Enough said.

In what universe?

 

[wapower]

Re: Trades youd like to see your team make

In what universe?

You haven't watched many Port Adelaide games have you?

 

[Powerade 08]

Re: Trades youd like to see your team make

In what universe?

Yea, you'll need a better argument than "lol he plays 4 Port, neva herd of him"

 

[Patron]

Re: Trades youd like to see your team make

The way Texas and Smack are looking. I wouldnt mind a half eaten pack of noodles for Tippett.
Hes now the weak link up there, and crowds it to much for the others.

Ebert home to adelaide=deal.

 

[TigerTime88]

Re: Trades youd like to see your team make

If he is such a AA standard defender where was he in the team or squad?? In Victoria we have this thing called foxtel so I see plenty of Port games.

 

[philthy05]

Re: Trades youd like to see your team make

If he is such a AA standard defender where was he in the team or squad?? In Victoria we have this thing called foxtel so I see plenty of Port games.

lol, he said AA standard defender.

you are reading it as in selected in the AA team.

he was precise in his words so people would understand what he is saying...

not to mention the fact that the AA often selects either mids (part-time defenders) into the backline or stacks the team with whichever backline just won the premiership your lucky if 1 or 2 actual real small defenders get chosen. as much as i love corey enright if he played for fremantle he would have 0 AA selections.

anyway.. are you disputing only the fact he was chosen to AA , which was never said just a mistake on your part or are you disputing that he is an AA standard defender??

 

[ringo200]

Re: Trades youd like to see your team make

Surjan's 09 was pretty close to AA standard.

You'd be struggling to make that argument for any of his other seasons though.

 

[Hipster Doofus]

Re: Trades youd like to see your team make

You're a Richmond supporter, so you saw the one game where Surjan's opponent has beaten him in the last two years. I'd say his 35 wins and 1 loss record against his direct opponent is pretty ****ing good.

This is the worst argument i have ever heard

*You didn't see it cos he didn't play well against you*

Mate, we have a seriuos lack of class in small forwards, if Surjan couldn't shut down Nahas, White or Hicks then he is no AA

Case Closed

 

[wapower]

Re: Trades youd like to see your team make

This is the worst argument i have ever heard

*You didn't see it cos he didn't play well against you*

Mate, we have a seriuos lack of class in small forwards, if Surjan couldn't shut down Nahas, White or Hicks then he is no AA

Case Closed

What's your thoughts on the following opponents who have been destroyed by Surjan in the past 2 seasons alone;

Mark Le Cras, Stephen Milne, Adam Schneider, Jason Porplyzia, Shaun Higgins, Jason Akermanis, Cyril Rioli, Leon Davis, Eddie Betts, Alwyn Davey, Lindsay Thomas, Tarkyn Lockyer & Mark Williams just to name a few. These were the ones who stood out most in my memory but rest assured there's plenty of others.

Surj is scarily good as a one on one defender. He could probably use with a little more rebound to his game but it seems the instruction is to patrol the defensive 50 and take away the small forward's tricky runs and general goal sense then run to create as a secondary duty. We also rotate him onto the most dangerous small forward of the time meaning he shuts down his opponent then is switched to the one who may be getting away from us.

Try watching a few more Port Adelaide games before making an unsolicited remark next time. We've got some pretty good players in our side. Whether or not they take it to another level is yet to be determined.

 

[DivideandMultiply]

Re: Trades youd like to see your team make

What's your thoughts on the following opponents who have been destroyed by Surjan in the past 2 seasons alone;

Mark Le Cras, Stephen Milne, Adam Schneider, Jason Porplyzia, Shaun Higgins, Jason Akermanis, Cyril Rioli, Leon Davis, Eddie Betts, Alwyn Davey, Lindsay Thomas, Tarkyn Lockyer & Mark Williams just to name a few. These were the ones who stood out most in my memory but rest assured there's plenty of others.

Surj is scarily good as a one on one defender. He could probably use with a little more rebound to his game but it seems the instruction is to patrol the defensive 50 and take away the small forward's tricky runs and general goal sense then run to create as a secondary duty. We also rotate him onto the most dangerous small forward of the time meaning he shuts down his opponent then is switched to the one who may be getting away from us.

Try watching a few more Port Adelaide games before making an unsolicited remark next time. We've got some pretty good players in our side. Whether or not they take it to another level is yet to be determined.

Really???

LeCras did not play round 2 last year, Surjan didn't play round 20.

In rd 2 2009, both had quiet games (Surjan had 9 disposals) yet LeCras still had 4 goal contributions (3 goals and 1 GA).

The only game you can make a case for him for him outplaying LeCras in a match was in rd16 2009. Firstly we were soundly beaten across the board and the ball barely went into the f50 for parts of the match. In fact I don't think Surjan was LeCras direct opponent for much of it and he still chimed in with a couple of goals and a goal assist.

So not much of a case to be made that he has "destroyed" LeCras in the last 2 seasons.

 

[wapower]

Re: Trades youd like to see your team make

Really???

LeCras did not play round 2 last year, Surjan didn't play round 20.

In rd 2 2009, both had quiet games (Surjan had 9 disposals) yet LeCras still had 4 goal contributions (3 goals and 1 GA).

The only game you can make a case for him for him outplaying LeCras in a match was in rd16 2009. Firstly we were soundly beaten across the board and the ball barely went into the f50 for parts of the match. In fact I don't think Surjan was LeCras direct opponent for much of it and he still chimed in with a couple of goals and a goal assist.

So not much of a case to be made that he has "destroyed" LeCras in the last 2 seasons.

Are you suggesting that a defender whose primary role is to minimize the influence of a forward should be rated by the amount of possessions he obtains? Interesting rationale.

2007 Round 15 - Minimal impact by Le Cras + Surjan contributed offensively (which is a very rare thing). Port win Surj win.

2007 Qualifying Final when Surj was on him he smacked him. Especially if memory serves when West Coast started running Le Cras up the field to try and find possessions his job was done. Port win Surj win.

2009 - Round 2. Le Cras played a very smart game in the first half. He got in behind our zone and kicked 3 until half time. Choco changed the zone and let Surjan go one on one in defence for the second half. Le Cras touches the ball once in the half, in the final 10 seconds. Port win. Maybe even but Surj took the match winner completely out of the game when needed. Port win possible tie borderline more Surj win.

2009 - Round 16 Le Cras 7 possession 2 goals. The second goal was a broken zone play that Surj wasn't responsible for from memory. I think it may have come from a kick out. Either way this game was a true demonstration of Surj's defensive capabilities. West Coast directed a ridiculous amount of ball at Le Cras during this game (and he was white hot coming into it). Port win massive Surj win.

Le Cras is a quality player. There's no doubt about that but when Surjan stands him one of two things happens. He's kept to below career averages in disposals or goals kicked and his influence on affecting the outcome favourably for West Coast is marginalized. I'm not suggesting that one person is capable of affecting the outcome of a game so single handedly that this match up determines the Port-West Coast games, but there's a definitive theme that Le Cras is just OK against Port Adelaide.

 

[DivideandMultiply]

Re: Trades youd like to see your team make

Are you suggesting that a defender whose primary role is to minimize the influence of a forward should be rated by the amount of possessions he obtains? Interesting rationale.

2007 Round 15 - Minimal impact by Le Cras + Surjan contributed offensively (which is a very rare thing). Port win Surj win.

2007 Qualifying Final when Surj was on him he smacked him. Especially if memory serves when West Coast started running Le Cras up the field to try and find possessions his job was done. Port win Surj win.

2009 - Round 2. Le Cras played a very smart game in the first half. He got in behind our zone and kicked 3 until half time. Choco changed the zone and let Surjan go one on one in defence for the second half. Le Cras touches the ball once in the half, in the final 10 seconds. Port win. Maybe even but Surj took the match winner completely out of the game when needed. Port win possible tie borderline more Surj win.

2009 - Round 16 Le Cras 7 possession 2 goals. The second goal was a broken zone play that Surj wasn't responsible for from memory. I think it may have come from a kick out. Either way this game was a true demonstration of Surj's defensive capabilities. West Coast directed a ridiculous amount of ball at Le Cras during this game (and he was white hot coming into it). Port win massive Surj win.

Le Cras is a quality player. There's no doubt about that but when Surjan stands him one of two things happens. He's kept to below career averages in disposals or goals kicked and his influence on affecting the outcome favourably for West Coast is marginalized. I'm not suggesting that one person is capable of affecting the outcome of a game so single handedly that this match up determines the Port-West Coast games, but there's a definitive theme that Le Cras is just OK against Port Adelaide.

Where to start.

2007 was LeCras first full season. Most games he was still finding his feet. Round 15 in a game we got absolutely smashed, LeCras put in no better or worse a performance than most games that year. He was barely used as a leading target at that point and I think Staker was possibly our leading goal scorer. So claiming this was a "Surjan" win is preposterous.

The 2007 qualifying final was probably LeCras best game for the year. The move had nothing to do with Surjan, but was an attempt to inject some unpredictibility into our midfield where we were getting smashed. He nearly single handedly kept us in the game with a clutch goal, a couple of great f50 entries and some clever work in the forward line. Was the game many supporters stood up and said "gee this bloke could be a star".

You are also incorrect re 2009 rd16. We struggled to hit a target past HF that game and the ball coming into the f50 was shocking. As with many other times it was the failure of our midfielders not close checking defenders that lost it for us.

Fact is you nominated a 2 year period. Out of that they played on each other twice and not for the full duration of either game. Only once could you claim Surjan came away the victor, in a game where we were belted in the middle due to not being able to keep up with Port's quicker ball movement and lacking any semblence of defensive pressure in the midfield as well as any cohesion going forward.

 

[wapower]

Re: Trades youd like to see your team make

Where to start.

2007 was leCras first full season. most games he was still finding his feet. Round 15 in a game we got absolutely smashed, LeCras put in no better or worse a performance than most games that year. He was barely used as a leading target at that point and I think Staker was possibly our leading goal scorer. So claiming this was a "Surjan" win is preposterous.

The 2007 qualifying final was probably LeCras best game for the year. The move had nothing to do with Surjan, but was an attempt to inject some unpredictibility into our midfield where we were getting smashed. He nearly single handedly kept us in the game with a clutch goal, a couple of great f50 entries and some clever work in the forward line. Was the game many supporters stood up and said "gee this bloke could be a star".

You are also incorrect re 2009 rd16. We struggled to hit a target past HF that game and the ball coming into the f50 was shocking. As with many other times it was the failure of our midfielders not close checking defenders that lost it for us.

Fact is you nominated a 2 year period. Out of that they played on each other twice and not for the full duration of either game. Only once could you claim Surjan came away the victor, in a game where we were belted in the middle not being able to keep up with Port's quicker ball movement and lacking any semblence of defensive pressure in the midfield or cohesion going forward.

Seeing as though I have all the games on tape, most Port Adelaide games recorded and for my own enjoyment re-watch years of footage on a regular basis to keep tabs on Port Adelaide player progressions I'll just disagree with you now and reference what the videos clearly show.

 

[DivideandMultiply]

Re: Trades youd like to see your team make

Seeing as though I have all the games on tape, most Port Adelaide games recorded and for my own enjoyment re-watch years of footage on a regular basis to keep tabs on Port Adelaide player progressions I'll just disagree with you now and reference what the videos clearly show.

O rlly?

I regularly watch our old games on bigpond. I also hate Port because they have the mox on us and I remeber the 2007 thrashing well. Co-incidentally the 2007 Qualifying final is one of my favs (due to the glimpses LeCras showed).

Surjan is a gun defender, no doubt. LeCras strugles with guys who have similar to larger size but also very good lateral movement, or reading of the play.

It is why Tarrant always gives him a touch up. Knows where the ball is going, can stay with him and out body him.

He isn't the quickest bloke and I have seen Surjan match up well against him, but I would not say destroy.

Will be interesting to see whether they match up against each other this year, considering it is getting rarer and rarer to see small/medium defenders stick with one oponent in the forwardline/play a close checking game for most of a match.

 

[wapower]

Re: Trades youd like to see your team make

O rlly?

I regularly watch our old games on bigpond. I also hate Port because they have the mox on us and I remeber the 2007 thrashing well. Co-incidentally the 2007 Qualifying final is one of my favs (due to the glimpses LeCras showed).

Surjan is a gun defender, no doubt. LeCras strugles with guys who have similar to larger size but also very good lateral movement, or reading of the play.

It is why Tarrant always gives him a touch up. Knows where the ball is going, can stay with him and out body him.

He isn't the quickest bloke and I have seen Surjan match up well against him, but I would not say destroy.

Will be interesting to see whether they match up against each other this year, considering it is getting rarer and rarer to see small/medium defenders stick with one oponent in the forwardline/play a close checking game for most of a match.

That's your problem then DivideandMultiply. You need to get the VHS connected up to the big screen (or DVDR's for those technologically savvy kids of today) . Trust me I lambasted many of the Port Adelaide people who jeered when Cousins did his hami in the 2007 QF. Just classless actions in the face of injury that any football follower wouldn't have appreciated. I guess we see that game in different shades because Surj was clearly one of our best that made a game saving move winning the football and blasting it outside our defensive 50.

Le Cras is an absolute gun. There's no doubt about that. Every single team would be better with him playing for them and you're quite right in your description of his ability. Surj is incredibly quick and perhaps it's that closing speed that allows him to play him so closely by getting a fist in where other times it's a mark.

You're probably right in that destroy is a strong word but he's definitely dominated Le Cras in the past. Patches or not I fully expect their match up to dwindle if Lecca is moved into the midfield on a more regular basis. I think we can agree they are both quality players and our assessments of their head to head battles may differ.

I have a feeling that the substitute rule is going to affect the small forward/midfield rotation considerably moving forward.

 

[DivideandMultiply]

Re: Trades youd like to see your team make

You're probably right in that destroy is a strong word but he's definitely dominated Le Cras in the past. Patches or not I fully expect their match up to dwindle if Lecca is moved into the midfield on a more regular basis. I think we can agree they are both quality players and our assessments of their head to head battles may differ.

I have a feeling that the substitute rule is going to affect the small forward/midfield rotation considerably moving forward.

Agree with pretty much all of what you have said.

Also the look on Cuzzies face when he went down the races was devastating. I went from yelling at the screen to shock when I saw the rage and frustration on his face, just knew the match was done.

That and the Collingwood draw were tough matches to watch but I still love both. The guts shown by clearly undermanned eagles squads, the glimpses LeCras showed in the Port match and maybe the fact we never had to face Geelong make up for the dissapointment (and injuries to Cuzzy and LeCras the following week).

As for your last point, agreed also. LeCras has great stamina though which may help him in the forward line with decreased rotations (meaning the coaching staff will find plenty of reasons for him to stay put) but I think they have to start playing him more in the middle. He does have some quiet games playing as a specialist FP/undersized FF, which are masked by his ability to manufacture goals. A lot of that comes down to our disorganised forwardline and poor f50 entries.

The ball isn't often enough to his advantage and with his size and height it makes it hard for him to do arially what he does on the lead. Nor does he often get the chance to be one out and find space. To often he gets double/triple teamed by taller opponents because our forwards lead to the wrong places, or our midfielders kick high and long allowing defenders to zone off their direct opponents.

We have seen that he is capable of still kicking 2-3 goals a game, whilst spending time running through the middle (end of 09 season). Making this a regular occurance makes sense for so many reasons, not the least of which is the fact we have him kicking the ball into our forward line.

 

[dajesmac]

Re: Trades youd like to see your team make

I seriously want us to get Rich for the 2012 season.

I'd also love Conca in a few years time.