Rumour GFC 2020 Player Trading, Drafting FA, Rumours and Wish lists Pt2

[cats_09]

WARNING TO ALL VISITORS TO THE GEELONG BOARD. You are - for the most part - welcome to discuss the current list management & trading situation at Geelong. However, this is our board, so be respectful of the home board posters & don't inflame arguments (make your points succinctly and move on). And if you're just here to troll, then don't bother or you will be enjoying a holiday

 

[BigCat1]

He's contracted so we don't get a say where he goes, Brisbane will take the best deal possible as long as Witherden agrees which he obviously does.

??? A) you don’t actually believe that this isn’t a player driven period B) Brisbane are reported trading him for pick 60. What a hard bargain they have driven. They are actually only using two picks so he’s basically a delisting or part salary dump.

 

[00VicWard001]

The real bad news is everyone was surprised we selected Thurlow, Grundy was still available. That worked out well. Teams that dont have a ruck like us and bulldogs isn't by accident, they just don't value ruckmen enough to put in the effort to get a good one.

This is not the case at all. There are three developed top tier ruckman (Natanui, Gawn and Grundy) running around at the moment that have not won a premiership.

There are recycled/part-time ruckman that have won premierships. Vardy, Nankervis, Grigg, Hale, McEvoy and I can't even remember who the ruckman for the Bulldogs was.

I think most teams are quote content to let other teams develop ruckman and if they can, they will try and poach them. If they can't, then they can get a second or third tier ruckman and still win premierships. We had an good/above average ruckman for 2020 and a part-time very average ruckman pinch-hitting and we were dominant for clearances and ended up in a grand final.

Also - the Grundy story is just not true. Every other club passed on him too. Likewise every other club passed on Darling. I think there was some sort of draft tampering going on with the stories/way that they behaved that made recruiters shy away from them and magically, they both landed at their preferred clubs...

 

[Drunkcat]

Geelong fans rate Narlke yet no club wants him i want him gone. come must be some dopey club that wants him

 

[Grimoz]

??? A) you don’t actually believe that this isn’t a player driven period B) Brisbane are reported trading him for pick 60. What a hard bargain they have driven. They are actually only using two picks so he’s basically a delisting or part salary dump.

Exactly and how do you know he hasnt said to them "i want to go to the Eagles", not every ****ing Geelong kid wants to come home to play for us ffs everyone needs to get that out of their heads.

 

[catman2006]

Geelong fans rate Narlke yet no club wants him i want him gone. come must be some dopey club that wants him

List sizes probably putting clubs off at the moment

 

[Larry Donohue]

This is not the case at all. There are three developed top tier ruckman (Natanui, Gawn and Grundy) running around at the moment that have not won a premiership.

There are recycled/part-time ruckman that have won premierships. Vardy, Nankervis, Grigg, Hale, McEvoy and I can't even remember who the ruckman for the Bulldogs was.

I think most teams are quote content to let other teams develop ruckman and if they can, they will try and poach them. If they can't, then they can get a second or third tier ruckman and still win premierships. We had an good/above average ruckman for 2020 and a part-time very average ruckman pinch-hitting and we were dominant for clearances and ended up in a grand final.

Also - the Grundy story is just not true. Every other club passed on him too. Likewise every other club passed on Darling. I think there was some sort of draft tampering going on with the stories/way that they behaved that made recruiters shy away from them and magically, they both landed at their preferred clubs...

tom boyd was bulldogs ruck. i reckon he may have ended up a champ if not for mental health constraints

 

[Drunkcat]

List sizes probably putting clubs off at the moment

or he is not that good maybe

 

[tielgaz]

How about this for a scenario, apologies if i have missed something.

Geelong Out: Pick 13, Pick 20, 38, FR2 Geelong In: Cameron, Higgins, Pick 28
Essendon Out: Pick 7, Saad Essendon In: Caldwell, Pick 30, Pick 8
GWS Out: Cameron, Caldwell GWS In: Pick 7, Pick 13
Carlton Out: Pick 8, Pick 30 Carlton In: Saad, Pick Geelong FR2
North Out: Higgins, Pick 28 North In: Pick 20, 38

Would leave us with Pick 15, 28 plus any others we pick up for trades from Cocky, Narkle, Fog etc.

Sounds like a lots has to go right for this to work!

 

[Grimoz]

Sounds like a lots has to go right for this to work!

Just a couple of outcomes for each club not one giant trade, i also added a future 3rd rounder coming back to us from North.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Maybe Witherden doesn't care to return to Geelong - just because ones from this area doesn't mean they necessarily want to return

Exactly.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Just a couple of outcomes for each club not one giant trade, i also added a future 3rd rounder coming back to us from North.

We are doing well if thats the deal.

 

[Grimoz]

We are doing well if thats the deal.

Well considering they want the pick upgrade from 28 to 20 plus 38, they can have that, in reality the way North are the future 3rd round could end up being 41-45 which would be a decent pick also so i dont see us losing that trade that way, North get what they want and we get what we want.

Geelong: Higgins, Pick 28, FR3 (Possibly 41-45) (Pick Value if 45 - 1024)

North: Pick 20, Pick 38 (Pick Value 1377)

Would mean that we would essentially be giving pick 45 for Higgins (347 Points)

 

[00VicWard001]

It is exactly the same.

LF is another Lang/Smedts I'm afraid to say.

I agree. He works hard and is tenacious, but he doesn't scream top 20/round 1 to me.

Just a few thoughts on drafting - I may be proven wrong - but I can't see an average sized midfielder with average attributes becoming truly elite. They end up as role players.

Some average sized midfielders end up elite - Neale, Shuey, Adams, McGrath, Walsh and Rowell come to mind, but there are other variables that come into play such as the fact that some of them are top 10 picks, others get silver service from elite rucks, and Neale is just an outlier.

If anyone is looking to draft a midfielder and really put the time into them - then size and power seem to be the best attributes for a midfielder going forward. Guys like Viney, Selwood and Cotchin are a prototype for the previous generation.

I don't think Wells or any recruiter is really that focused on drafting like they used to be. Unless you get access to Matt Rowell

18

Matt Rowell

Age

23

Ht

180cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.4

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

0.8

1star

T

5.2

5star

CL

3.8

5star

D

17.4

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

0.8

1star

T

5.2

5star

CL

3.8

5star

D

17.4

5star

K

7.6

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

0.8

1star

T

5.2

5star

CL

3.8

5star

or Sam Walsh

18

Sam Walsh

Age

24

Ht

184cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

25.1

5star

K

13.5

5star

HB

11.6

5star

M

5.1

5star

T

3.2

5star

CL

3.4

5star

No current season stats available

D

26.2

5star

K

15.4

5star

HB

10.8

5star

M

6.0

5star

T

3.2

5star

CL

4.8

5star

or a key position prospect, then every pick is speculative at best. There are the obviously special players - there may be 5 at most, and then there is the rest (which includes the hindsight rough diamonds and those that really come on in an AFL environment).

Looking back at 2017, the only player in the top 10, that would truly belong there is Aaron Naughton

33

Aaron Naughton

Age

24

Ht

196cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.7

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

3.7

3star

M

4.9

5star

T

1.8

4star

G

0.8

4star

D

6.3

1star

K

4.0

1star

HB

2.3

2star

M

2.5

3star

T

0.8

1star

G

0.5

4star

D

12.8

4star

K

8.8

4star

HB

4.0

3star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.2

3star

G

0.0

1star

. Then you have Tim Kelly

11

Tim Kelly

Age

30

Ht

184cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.6

5star

K

13.5

5star

HB

10.1

5star

M

3.4

3star

T

4.0

5star

CL

4.9

5star

D

19.9

5star

K

12.3

5star

HB

7.6

4star

M

3.1

3star

T

4.7

5star

CL

3.6

4star

D

21.6

5star

K

10.4

4star

HB

11.2

5star

M

2.8

3star

T

3.8

5star

CL

3.8

5star

, Liam Ryan

1

Liam Ryan

Age

28

Ht

181cm

Wt

76kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.3

3star

K

8.6

3star

HB

2.7

2star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.0

4star

G

1.3

5star

D

9.9

3star

K

8.0

3star

HB

1.9

1star

M

3.3

3star

T

1.6

3star

G

1.3

5star

D

11.4

3star

K

9.0

4star

HB

2.4

3star

M

3.8

4star

T

1.8

4star

G

1.6

5star

, Noah Balta

21

Noah Balta

Age

24

Ht

194cm

Wt

105kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.8

2star

K

6.7

3star

HB

3.1

3star

M

2.7

3star

T

1.9

4star

MG

236.3

4star

D

12.0

3star

K

6.7

3star

HB

5.3

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

0.3

1star

MG

233.0

4star

D

7.0

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

2.0

2star

M

1.8

2star

T

1.8

4star

MG

217.4

4star

...

This is probably why Wells and co scour local leagues or overseas to find players who are special, tested and mature and hidden. It's also why they spend the time and effort to convince players from other clubs, who are also tested and mature to come play for us.

 

[MelbCat]

He's contracted so we don't get a say where he goes, Brisbane will take the best deal possible as long as Witherden agrees which he obviously does.

Hopefully we jump in with a late bid with a swap or Cocky. Same age profile, just one plays the other keeps the medical team occupied

 

[FishyJ]

BLUES RAMP UP PURSUIT OF A YOUNG CAT
The interest from Carlton in young Geelong small forward Lachie Fogarty is growing, says AFL.com.au's Mitch Cleary.

Speaking on Trade Radio, Cleary said the Blues were keen to continue adding speed to their list after luring free agent Zac Williams and chasing Essendon's Adam Saad

42

Adam Saad

Age

30

Ht

178cm

Wt

79kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.5

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

7.5

5star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.7

4star

MG

349.1

5star

D

20.7

5star

K

12.0

5star

HB

8.7

4star

M

3.3

3star

T

2.4

3star

MG

388.3

5star

D

17.6

5star

K

10.4

4star

HB

7.2

5star

M

4.2

4star

T

1.2

3star

.

"Over the weekend I've learnt it's (interest) pretty strong from Carlton," Cleary said.

"He just hasn't got his body right and the Blues think they can do that.

"I think Lachie's pretty keen to explore it."

Fogarty, 21, has played 23 games in three seasons and has one year remaining on his contract.

Update on Fogarty situation from AFL.com.au.

Looking like it's pretty solid now. Disappointing.

 

[Grimoz]

Update on Fogarty situation from AFL.com.au.

Looking like it's pretty solid now. Disappointing.

Im not too sad about it, the kid is a solid contributor but I dont believe he will be anything more, would be a good fit for the Blues working alongside the beast Cripps.

 

[00VicWard001]

How about this for a scenario, apologies if i have missed something.

Geelong Out: Pick 13, Pick 20, 38, FR2 Geelong In: Cameron, Higgins, Pick 28, Pick North FR3
Essendon Out: Pick 7, Saad Essendon In: Caldwell, Pick 30, Pick 8
GWS Out: Cameron, Caldwell GWS In: Pick 7, Pick 13
Carlton Out: Pick 8, Pick 30 Carlton In: Saad, Pick Geelong FR2
North Out: Higgins, Pick 28, FR3 North In: Pick 20, 38

Would leave us with Pick 15, 28 plus any others we pick up for trades from Cocky, Narkle, Fog etc.

This looks good. As I mentioned recently, not sure our future is truly dependent on pick 13 or pick 20. Drafting is exciting and all, but really, you just don't know what you're getting.

They could just as likely be another Smedts/Lang, whereas pick 28 and the FR3 could just as well end up as Tom Stewart or Jack Henry

38

Jack Henry

Age

26

Ht

192cm

Wt

96kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.3

3star

K

7.3

3star

HB

2.9

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.2

4star

MG

142.6

2star

D

8.6

2star

K

6.7

3star

HB

1.9

1star

M

3.9

4star

T

2.1

3star

MG

142.6

3star

D

9.6

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

2.6

3star

M

3.6

4star

T

2.0

4star

or Mark O'Conner or Mark Blicavs

46

Mark Blicavs

Age

33

Ht

198cm

Wt

101kg

Pos.

M/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.5

4star

K

6.6

3star

HB

7.9

5star

M

4.1

4star

T

4.2

5star

CL

1.7

4star

D

11.1

3star

K

7.1

3star

HB

4.0

3star

M

3.9

4star

T

1.9

3star

CL

0.1

2star

D

8.6

3star

K

2.0

1star

HB

6.6

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

1.6

4star

CL

2.0

4star

. I would much rather Higgins and Smith and Cameron.

 

[00VicWard001]

Yeah that's wild. I know we have a lot of defenders but Witherden has real quality. At that price we could have swapped him with Cockatoo which would have been a good result

Witherdon will replace Hurn. At Geelong, he is going have to have to fight his way in. Its a no-brainer, he wants an AFL career, not to be a backup.

 

[strauchnyy]

Would be diabolical if the net change was in Higgins out fogarty

Would only entertain a fogarty trade if it helped land Cameron

 

[Grimoz]

Would be diabolical if the net change was in Higgins out fogarty

Would only entertain a fogarty trade if it helped land Cameron

Unfortunately I think he is pretty much set to go to Carlton, just too much noise about, if we can land a 2nd rounder for him and throw that into the Cameron trade it might be handy though.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Well considering they want the pick upgrade from 28 to 20 plus 38, they can have that, in reality the way North are the future 3rd round could end up being 41-45 which would be a decent pick also so i dont see us losing that trade that way, North get what they want and we get what we want.

Geelong: Higgins, Pick 28, FR3 (Possibly 41-45) (Pick Value if 45 - 1024)

North: Pick 20, Pick 38 (Pick Value 1377)

Would mean that we would essentially be giving pick 45 for Higgins (347 Points)

True although i think 13 + 20 is going to essendon for 6 or carlton for 8 (those picks will then be used in the caldwell/saad deals) which will help us get cameron done. So i cant see 20 ending up at north its more valuable to us elsewhere. I agree if we get higgins for pick 45ish thats fair value.

 

[00VicWard001]

Would be diabolical if the net change was in Higgins out fogarty

Would only entertain a fogarty trade if it helped land Cameron

Higgins may only play for us for 2 years, but his output would be far superior to Fogarty during that period. And by the time Fogarty hits his straps in 2 years, Cooper Stephens and some other young/traded mid or even Mark O'Connor

42

Mark O'connor

Age

27

Ht

189cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.2

3star

K

8.1

3star

HB

5.1

4star

M

4.4

4star

T

2.3

4star

MG

174.8

3star

D

12.4

3star

K

8.9

4star

HB

3.5

2star

M

4.5

4star

T

1.6

3star

MG

199.8

3star

D

10.4

3star

K

4.8

2star

HB

5.6

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.0

4star

MG

67.4

1star

in the midfield will have a greater output anyway.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Would be diabolical if the net change was in Higgins out fogarty

Would only entertain a fogarty trade if it helped land Cameron

We can get higgins without fogarty we might need to move fog for cameron though (especially if pick 8 from carlton is involved). I rate fog but we have depth in his position so if moving him helps us get cameron in thats a win imo.

 

[Grimoz]

Im really surprised that there has been no interest in Narkle, out of all the guys we could potentitally lose I think he has the most to offer, could be that clubs are scared off by his injury history.

 

[thecatattack]

Alex Witherden

23

Alex Witherden

Age

26

Ht

188cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

20.7

5star

K

15.2

5star

HB

5.5

4star

M

6.2

5star

T

1.8

4star

MG

386.5

5star

D

13.0

3star

K

10.0

4star

HB

3.0

2star

M

7.0

5star

T

0.0

1star

MG

201.0

3star

D

24.0

5star

K

15.4

5star

HB

8.6

5star

M

5.8

5star

T

2.2

4star

MG

380.2

5star

getting traded for a late 3rd or 4th round and salary paid to WCE

Can’t believe we are letting this Geelong kid get away. Wasn’t Wells all over him pre draft. Bizarre how things happen in trade week. Treloar all of a sudden is deplorable, Witherden a packet of chips yet Cameron is the greatest fwd seen in the last 25 years and average loose HBFers at bottom 4 teams like Saad are top 10 picks.

Some commenters re. Witherden on Reddit:

Have you seen Witherden play? Slow, unaccountable, bites off more than he can chew every time. If he wasn’t a supercoach hero in his first season years ago, I doubt anybody would rate him.

It's crazy to me that more people don't understand this. Even a lot of Lions supporters think he should be a lock for best 22. He just isn't. He's one of those guys who had some good moments when we were lacking quality and were forced to give a lot of our young guys a run. Since then, we've drafted and traded for guys to better gel in the backline. Our backline was much better this year than last.

He’s not terrible, he’s just not good at defending. A big reason why Brisbane improved this year and won a final and beat top teams is they built a strong defensive base and half moved on from relying on players like Witherden who might be able to rebound but loses one on one battles. I rate Answerth higher and he’s in the same boat in not being in the best side.

Exactly this. I mean I think he has potential as a player, but it seems everyone thinks he is a jet based of his fantasy several years ago.

Answerth and Starc are both much better defenders, and have more pace and strength. Witherden is probably the best kick, but he is slow and having a good kick isn't useful if your decision making isn't also good.

I think a lot of fans rate his talent based off his fantasy score.

But, he is a good user and can be a great player in the future, but I just think Answerth and Payne are ahead of him and given he is on decent money maybe the Lions are fine with freeing up cap space.

Tbh I would definitely rather lock down the likes of Berry, cluggs, Bailey and Rayner

The fact he's from here may have us fans overrating him as a few fans reckon he has noticeable deficiencies.