Rumour GFC 2024 Player Trading, Drafting FA, Rumours and Wish lists Pt 3

[cats_09]

Here's 2024 Provisional AFL Draft Order

Cheers to Lore for their hard work in setting this up, and making it available for all users on BF to use and keep track of the picks ahead of the upcoming draft - and please practice patience grasshoppers if it's not updated in the immediate aftermath of completed trade





I'll also sticky this post to ensure it's easily accessible for discussion of our hypothetical trader


Also,

2024 Free Agency Period​

The AFL introduced free agency at the end of the 2012 season, giving players another vehicle where they can transfer from one club to another. Free agency is a common form of player movement in major football and sporting codes around the world.

Free Agency Opens: Friday October 4 at 9.00am
Free Agency Closes: Friday October 11 at 5.00pm

Continental Tyres AFL Trade Period​

Trade Period Opens: Monday October 7 at 9.00am
Trade Period Closes: Wednesday October 16 at 7.30pm

 

[SkittleCats]

The Doggies have every write not to make a trade and have Smith need to go into the draft if they choose to lose him for nothing.

That’s the rules and they don’t have to trade him to us.

Sure… they’d get zero for him and it would be ridiculous, but they can do it if they want.

Going the AFLPA route is like calling out to your mum when someone rightfully hangs shit in you.

The Dogs dont have any right to send him to the draft, they dont have any rights over an uncontracted player. But for some reason, we require that even an uncontracted player has to be traded to another club. That contradiction is a hold over from the amateur days of this sport. If the Dogs had any right over the player then he wouldnt go to the draft in the first place in the absence of a trade being found. The reason we send players to the draft is precisely because the Dogs have lost any "rights" to that player.

It also isnt "running to mum" and im not sure why you would say that? it's a fairly dumb take, this isnt the school yard, despite what you hear on SEN. We wouldnt be going to anybody, it would be the AFL/AFLPA stepping in to prevent a much more embarrassing situation to develop if a club does choose to roll the dice. In the professional era of salary caps, free agency and player movement the game cant have a player who does not have a contract be forced into a situation where he either is a) redrafted to the club he has elected to leave or b) gets drafted to a club he has no desire to be at. At which point he is either forced to a) accept a worse/less valuable contract to keep playing or b) he has to basically sit out a year because he cant/wont agree to a new but worse contract, only to then go through the whole situation again the following year. That situation alones makes a complete mockery of the salary cap if nothing else.

Smith is uncontracted and has a 6 year deal infront of him at Geelong which he has said he wants to sign. In any other professional sport around the world that would be enough for the move to happen, as Smith, if he was playing in those sports, would be a Free Agent the second his contract was allowed to expire. The notion that we need to trade for him at this stage is ridiculous, and if the Dogs push it as far as the draft then i really do think the AFL would step in.

If the Dogs pushed it to sending him to the draft without there being a certain outcome anyway, and he gets drafted by a club other than us, it creates an untenable situation for the AFL, as it totally exposes a huge flaw in our contract and free agency rules. It may even open the AFL up to litigation from Smith and his management and/or the AFLPA (not a legal expert though). A situation they will want to avoid at all costs.

In a more mature AFL, this rule would be eliminated, and Smith would be a Free Agent now. As in a more mature system, youd either extend him or trade him while he still has time to run on his old deal. You wouldnt "hold players to contracts" simply because you can trade them anyway once those contracts expire. From a player welfare perspective alone that situation should not be allowed to happen.

 

[Gazza Greatness]

The Dogs dont have any right to send him to the draft, they dont have any rights over an uncontracted player. But for some reason, we require that even an uncontracted player has to be traded to another club. That contradiction is a hold over from the amateur days of this sport. If the Dogs had any right over the player then he wouldnt go to the draft in the first place in the absence of a trade being found. The reason we send players to the draft is precisely because the Dogs have lost any "rights" to that player.

It also isnt "running to mum" and im not sure why you would say that? it's a fairly dumb take, this isnt the school yard, despite what you hear on SEN. We wouldnt be going to anybody, it would be the AFL/AFLPA stepping in to prevent a much more embarrassing situation to develop if a club does choose to roll the dice. In the professional era of salary caps, free agency and player movement the game cant have a player who does not have a contract be forced into a situation where he either is a) redrafted to the club he has elected to leave or b) gets drafted to a club he has no desire to be at. At which point he is either forced to a) accept a worse/less valuable contract to keep playing or b) he has to basically sit out a year because he cant/wont agree to a new but worse contract, only to then go through the whole situation again the following year. That situation alones makes a complete mockery of the salary cap if nothing else.

Smith is uncontracted and has a 6 year deal infront of him at Geelong which he has said he wants to sign. In any other professional sport around the world that would be enough for the move to happen, as Smith, if he was playing in those sports, would be a Free Agent the second his contract was allowed to expire. The notion that we need to trade for him at this stage is ridiculous, and if the Dogs push it as far as the draft then i really do think the AFL would step in.

If the Dogs pushed it to sending him to the draft without there being a certain outcome anyway, and he gets drafted by a club other than us, it creates an untenable situation for the AFL, as it totally exposes a huge flaw in our contract and free agency rules. It may even open the AFL up to litigation from Smith and his management and/or the AFLPA (not a legal expert though). A situation they will want to avoid at all costs.

In a more mature AFL, this rule would be eliminated, and Smith would be a Free Agent now. As in a more mature system, youd either extend him or trade him while he still has time to run on his old deal. You wouldnt "hold players to contracts" simply because you can trade them anyway once those contracts expire. From a player welfare perspective alone that situation should not be allowed to happen.

It's so unfortunate we have all this ballyhoo nonsense going on, even by the clubs themselves. Bailey Smith by trade completion with be a Geelong player and everyone who has 'half a brain' knows that, it just comes down to what picks, nothing more, nothing less and that's up to Geelong and Western Bulldogs to sort out.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

I truly do laugh at some of the commentary from fans, bulldogs or other clubs. The notion that we're stupid to play chicken with this trade with the backdrop of entering one of the two drafts.

If that's the case we miss out on a player that'd help us, but are no worse off than we were when we played our last match.
WB on the other hand lose a player for nothing. We hold the upper hand here, everyone knows it. Trying to highlight Kelly and Ratugolea is irrelevant. No question both clubs overpaid for what they received. Doesn't mean we have to choose to the same.

Also many struggling with the concepts of our recent trading. The notion that we should be fair.
Fair is a rolling scale and in recent seasons we have taken a more hardline approach. I dare say Mackie and co don't apologise for driving hard bargains both with incoming and outgoing players.

 

[dudusmaximus]

I can't blame him, things are so going slow that I was thinking of starting a new series "Highlights of our list cloggers 2010-2019" but then I remembered that I had to work a real job to go to so I don't really have the energy.

On the flip side, they will be short vids ..

 

[Two Planks]

The only certainty if Smith goes to the draft is the bulldogs don't have a first round pick in a strong draft and get zero for a good player. The deal will get done.

 

[Bald]

It's commitment to the cause for sure.

Both Bald and yourself prove that if we all just act like adults everyone gets along fine.

Unfortunately, there's a few on both sides in that thread who never got that memo, and just go full BigFooty list manager.

Everyone knows you never go full BigFooty list manager.

The way I deal with slightly less than favourable people on this website (and I'm no saint, I'm sure somebody could pull up logs of mine over the 8 years I've been on the website that I'm not proud of):

When you walk through the shopping centre and you walk past somebody that just isn't all there, whether that's due to their own choices or unfortunate natural selection - just know these people can buy a phone.

 

[fpm84]

The only certainty if Smith goes to the draft is the bulldogs don't have a first round pick in a strong draft and get zero for a good player. The deal will get done.

It's highly likely that the bulk of the deal has already been agreed on by the two clubs but we won't know for another week - 'trade period' is an entertainment event with the final hours broadcast live on TV, I have no doubt the deal won't be signed off on until that period.

 

[iameviljez]

Gee the Bulldogs board trading thread is a train wreck. Posters wanting Smith to be sent to the draft, some saying delist then re-draft him so he'll receive low wages, even dickhead Port fans saying they hope he gets sent to the PSD like they did with Nick Stevens.

Like a jilted ex-lover, the lot of them, but with a lot of deep-seated Geelong scarring.

It’s normal, we had plenty of melts when Kelly wanted out

 

[Zouz Kitty]

He'll fall in the shitter in 2025, and be a salary dump next season.

When that happens, does Geelong still offer a much lower trade? Hypothetically, how does Geelong acquire Butters + TDK? I’m leaving Reid until 2026.

I’m on the ‘get TDK to Geelong’ bandwagon

 

[#6 Thorp #7 Selwood LOL]

It's highly likely that the bulk of the deal has already been agreed on by the two clubs but we won't know for another week - 'trade period' is an entertainment event with the final hours broadcast live on TV, I have no doubt the deal won't be signed off on until that period.

I do think another factor is that the Dogs might as well wait and see what shakes out over the next week or so. Perhaps our 2nd rounder gets upgraded while we are facilitiating a different deal, and then they can ask for that pick. Could also go the other way, but can't blame them for waiting it out.

 

[Zouz Kitty]

When was Oliver busted for drugs or is that just rumour? Not fair to throw that around if it’s just speculation.

Article states Oliver had an episode due to ADHD tablets Really feel for him, has so much to deal with.

“But Goodwin and Pert claimed Oliver’s issues and the Smith drug test were “isolated incidents” and that “we haven’t got a cultural problem”.”

Article is worth reading.

https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/c...ws-story/8544d3c00632f4db836486ec22360ee2?amp

 

[D BRIDGE]

How would it be a good result for the Bulldogs?

Losing a player & a first round pick doesn’t sound like a good result, no matter how their fans try to spin it

Sarcasm.

Doggies fans seem to be flexing potentially getting zero for there R1 asset.

 

[Tristan34]

Sarcasm.

Doggies fans seem to be flexing potentially getting zero for there R1 asset.

Imagine the insult if Smith went to the ND and Geelong traded out of the first round for two r2 picks and still got Smith plus an extra 2nd.

 

[Lana]

On the flip side, they will be short vids ..

I'm pretty sure that there is a 80 page Constable thread, there would be plenty to talk about

 

[sexyhunk]

Sarcasm.

Doggies fans seem to be flexing potentially getting zero for there R1 asset.

seem like a lot of hte narrative in sending players to the draft is to show strength and not show the club to be push overs for any future players that wants out. this is the biggest rubbish narrative of all as how many trades in the past have been done directly due to clubs been apparent push overs.

 

[Zouz Kitty]

FWIW I think the CO trade is dead and buried.

But it wouldn’t be that hard for MFC to come out and say “Look, Clayton and his team have come to us today and we have had some real in depth discussions about how he is feeling and where he is at. The end result is that he has asked for us to consider a trade to give him a fresh start and while this is t our preferred option, we will try to work with CO for an outcome that works for all of us.”

You’d really hope MFC would consider Oliver. It’s reasonable for him to think MFC has betrayed him in 2023 + this year their behaviour is worse.
Petracca + some other players want him gone. Vines + Lever were awkward when making their unconvincing statements at the Bluey awards.
Brad Green is interim president, how much sway does he have in the Oliver decision in the future?
Tim Lamb made a fool of himself + MFC.
Ultimately No Quarter, your scenario offers dignity + care towards Oliver. I believe MFC could be regarded a bit better if they did this for Oliver.
Their petulant foot stomping worsens their debacle.

 

[iameviljez]

You’d really hope MFC would consider Oliver. It’s reasonable for him to think MFC has betrayed him in 2023 + this year their behaviour is worse.
Petracca + some other players want him gone. Vines + Lever were awkward when making their unconvincing statements at the Bluey awards.

I disagree strongly with this. Oliver is a very well-paid, very senior player - he is expected to, at the very least, not be a dickhead. Not show up unfit to pre-season. Not kick holes in walls at house parties, not be strongly associated with the guy busted for supplying drugs, not bend people's windscreen wipers on the way home from training. Not be a dickhead at the Brownlow. This is the bare minimum for an 18yo, let alone one of the best-paid players in the league.

Melbourne's error is blinking every time they've approached the cliff edge.

 

[Gunf]

I disagree strongly with this. Oliver is a very well-paid, very senior player - he is expected to, at the very least, not be a dickhead. Not show up unfit to pre-season. Not kick holes in walls at house parties, not be strongly associated with the guy busted for supplying drugs, not bend people's windscreen wipers on the way home from training. Not be a dickhead at the Brownlow.

Melbourne's error is blinking every time they've approached the cliff edge.

It goes both ways for mine..

Obviously Oliver has done some things to piss off Melb and Melb has done things to piss off Oliver with it's shit culture.

 

[iameviljez]

It goes both ways for mine..

Obviously Oliver has done some things to piss off Melb and Melb has done things to piss off Oliver with it's shit culture.

Melbourne has even gone so far as to offer for Oliver to move in with the captain and his wife. Not much more than they can do than that.

It doesn't always take two to tango IMO. The major issue Melbourne has, IMO, is that it has not been tough enough when its players have stepped out of line - Steven May being a dickhead to a teammate who missed out on a flag got to keep the VC role, Oliver wasn't shown the door early enough, etc.

 

[Reg Hickey]

I disagree strongly with this. Oliver is a very well-paid, very senior player - he is expected to, at the very least, not be a dickhead. Not show up unfit to pre-season. Not kick holes in walls at house parties, not be strongly associated with the guy busted for supplying drugs, not bend people's windscreen wipers on the way home from training. Not be a dickhead at the Brownlow. This is the bare minimum for an 18yo, let alone one of the best-paid players in the league.

Melbourne's error is blinking every time they've approached the cliff edge.

Yes, that is the bare minimum expectation.

What's changed is how to manage the situation when those expectations aren't met. Way back when I was Clarry's age it would be "shape up or ship out", or maybe even a minor ass kicking to remind him that the expectations are there and expected to be adhered to.

These days, it's completely different. This stuff is much more public, players have more options, and clubs are considered to have a duty of care around player welfare... so as a result there are loads more support mechanisms in place, and we have to look at causes not just symptoms.

 

[Gunf]

Melbourne has even gone so far as to offer for Oliver to move in with the captain and his wife.

It doesn't always take two to tango IMO. The major issue Melbourne has, IMO, is that it has not been tough enough when its players have stepped out of line - Steven May being a dickhead to a teammate who missed out on a flag got to keep the VC role, Oliver wasn't shown the door early enough, etc.

2 way street ... You can't as a club seriously expect your players to have a good culture when the rot starts at the top and bleeds down.

No one takes responsibility not the players not the coach not the board etc...
If Goodwin tried to chastise players they would probably laugh/scoff at him since he has his on problems he refuses to deal with/admit.

It isn't the first time this century that Melb has had a shit culture from top to bottom remember 186? and last time they only got out from that due to the AFL intervening.

 

[Commando]

When that happens, does Geelong still offer a much lower trade? Hypothetically, how does Geelong acquire Butters + TDK? I’m leaving Reid until 2026.

I’m on the ‘get TDK to Geelong’ bandwagon

I personally think we'll lose SDK before acquiring TDK. Can't see it happening

 

[Reg Hickey]

Melbourne has even gone so far as to offer for Oliver to move in with the captain and his wife. Not much more than they can do than that.

It doesn't always take two to tango IMO. The major issue Melbourne has, IMO, is that it has not been tough enough when its players have stepped out of line - Steven May being a dickhead to a teammate who missed out on a flag got to keep the VC role, Oliver wasn't shown the door early enough, etc.

I agree with this. Providing a player with support does not preclude being very strong when it comes to expectations and holding players accountable to them. Melbourne have clearly failed on both fronts.

 

[Reg Hickey]

The Dogs dont have any right to send him to the draft, they dont have any rights over an uncontracted player. But for some reason, we require that even an uncontracted player has to be traded to another club. That contradiction is a hold over from the amateur days of this sport. If the Dogs had any right over the player then he wouldnt go to the draft in the first place in the absence of a trade being found. The reason we send players to the draft is precisely because the Dogs have lost any "rights" to that player.

It also isnt "running to mum" and im not sure why you would say that? it's a fairly dumb take, this isnt the school yard, despite what you hear on SEN. We wouldnt be going to anybody, it would be the AFL/AFLPA stepping in to prevent a much more embarrassing situation to develop if a club does choose to roll the dice. In the professional era of salary caps, free agency and player movement the game cant have a player who does not have a contract be forced into a situation where he either is a) redrafted to the club he has elected to leave or b) gets drafted to a club he has no desire to be at. At which point he is either forced to a) accept a worse/less valuable contract to keep playing or b) he has to basically sit out a year because he cant/wont agree to a new but worse contract, only to then go through the whole situation again the following year. That situation alones makes a complete mockery of the salary cap if nothing else.

Smith is uncontracted and has a 6 year deal infront of him at Geelong which he has said he wants to sign. In any other professional sport around the world that would be enough for the move to happen, as Smith, if he was playing in those sports, would be a Free Agent the second his contract was allowed to expire. The notion that we need to trade for him at this stage is ridiculous, and if the Dogs push it as far as the draft then i really do think the AFL would step in.

If the Dogs pushed it to sending him to the draft without there being a certain outcome anyway, and he gets drafted by a club other than us, it creates an untenable situation for the AFL, as it totally exposes a huge flaw in our contract and free agency rules. It may even open the AFL up to litigation from Smith and his management and/or the AFLPA (not a legal expert though). A situation they will want to avoid at all costs.

In a more mature AFL, this rule would be eliminated, and Smith would be a Free Agent now. As in a more mature system, youd either extend him or trade him while he still has time to run on his old deal. You wouldnt "hold players to contracts" simply because you can trade them anyway once those contracts expire. From a player welfare perspective alone that situation should not be allowed to happen.

Great post. The AFL still has a ways to go before they get this right.

 

[Reg Hickey]

It's highly likely that the bulk of the deal has already been agreed on by the two clubs but we won't know for another week - 'trade period' is an entertainment event with the final hours broadcast live on TV, I have no doubt the deal won't be signed off on until that period.

Wouldn't surprise me if the deal is already done and dusted between Mackie and Power.

But then the AFL steps in and says "that's great fellas, good job, but would you mind holding off on lodging the paperwork and making it public until the last hour? Oh, and if you could do a bit of grandstanding and tough talking with the media in the meantime, we'd really appreciate it."

"Oh and Mack? Congrats on getting that Clarry deal done yesterday too. Yeah, if we could hold that one until the last minute too, that would be awesome. Fellas, this last hour next week is gonna be must-watch TV!"