Review Hamish 2021

[Golumless]

I’ve been Hamish-skeptical for some time.

But after the last couple of drafts I’m open to the possibility that I was wrong and should instead have been Pyke-skeptical.

We know Pyke was certainly intimately involved in the process from the discussion around Gallucci / English. He likely gave Hamish parameters for running power and athleticism. Perhaps that would have excluded footballers like Schoenberg and Berry, instead focusing on athletes like Gallucci and Jones.

Pyke-skeptical is probably also barking up the wrong tree with our issues. Every coach is going to be intimately involved in the process, they need to be as the draft is the way they shape their football side. Ultimately, Hamish picked Gallucci and if he thought someone was better, he would have picked them.

Mainly its how disgustingly cheap, bare boned and toxic our off-field staff ended up being. It's a damn hard gig to be a even remotely successful recruiter if everyone you are picking gets handed to Burton, Hass, Campo, Hart and co to butcher.

 

[Sanders]

Last years of Rendell so Hamish might have played a role?? Who knows but either way still nearly 33% of the players were select by Hamish and I forgot Atkins....

 

[Redline]

Oglivie was still with us when Rendell was head of recruiting wasn't he? Other than having final say on who we take, how much can you actually attribute to the head of recruiting?

It seems often with recruiting when the player turns out to be a good pick everyone wanted him. When the pick turns out to be a dud it's always someone else's fault. That seems consist across the industry.

I think the Recruiting Manager has to own it. I think they are given a framework to work within but then have the final say.

 

[jackster83]

Pyke-skeptical is probably also barking up the wrong tree with our issues. Every coach is going to be intimately involved in the process, they need to be as the draft is the way they shape their football side. Ultimately, Hamish picked Gallucci and if he thought someone was better, he would have picked them.

Mainly its how disgustingly cheap, bare boned and toxic our off-field staff ended up being. It's a damn hard gig to be a even remotely successful recruiter if everyone you are picking gets handed to Burton, Hass, Campo, Hart and co to butcher.

Literally.

Poor Chayce never stood a chance.

 

[Mego Red]

I thought it was commonly known that Hamish headed the scouting on all Victorian players during Rendell's time.

It's hard to know what influence Hamish had on picks made during Rendell's period - but the fact that Rendell has proven to be an absolute fruitloop makes me suspicious that a few hands maybe needed to be on the wheel during those years.

 

[craig crowing]

It seemed that from lack of commitment from the Edwards family before the draft that we wasn't going to puck Luke but to me the unknown was that from the Edwards not wanting him to go to Crows or our lack of interest in mainly.
To me mainly from Bicks etc feedback that Luke wasn't a need and would be a serviceable aFL player at best.
Time will reveal all.
I am not a Hamish fan but more positive about this years selection although Rowe at 38 still has me wondering and think was wanted as need immediate.

 

[Golumless]

It seemed that from lack of commitment from the Edwards family before the draft that we wasn't going to puck Luke but to me the unknown was that from the Edwards not wanting him to go to Crows or our lack of interest in mainly.
To me mainly from Bicks etc feedback that Luke wasn't a need and would be a serviceable aFL player at best.
Time will reveal all.
I am not a Hamish fan but more positive about this years selection although Rowe at 38 still has me wondering and think was wanted as need immediate.

It's 100% that we saw Rowe as a more important piece to our future then Edwards. Considering he's currently a best 22 player, it's a solid call at the moment, though there is a lot of water to go under the bridge for Jimmy.

 

[Sanders]

I thought it was commonly known that Hamish headed the scouting on all Victorian players during Rendell's time.

That’s new.

It's hard to know what influence Hamish had on picks made during Rendell's period - but the fact that Rendell has proven to be an absolute fruitloop makes me suspicious that a few hands maybe needed to be on the wheel during those years.

And yet there is light and day in results

The buck never, ever, ever, ever, stops in the middle

 

[BunjiMac]

I thought it was commonly known that Hamish headed the scouting on all Victorian players during Rendell's time.

It's hard to know what influence Hamish had on picks made during Rendell's period - but the fact that Rendell has proven to be an absolute fruitloop makes me suspicious that a few hands maybe needed to be on the wheel during those years.

I think you need that contrasting opinion in a recruitment team and that's why they worked well together as opposed to the group think that dominates the recruitment team now.

Hamish appears to be a numbers guy and good at evaluating exposed form. He seems to be poor at the non-tangeables, which is where Rendell seemed to excel. Rendell seems to be able to see things in players that exposed form sometimes doesn't show so clearly.

Together they made a good pairing.

 

[Betts are off]

It seemed that from lack of commitment from the Edwards family before the draft that we wasn't going to puck Luke but to me the unknown was that from the Edwards not wanting him to go to Crows or our lack of interest in mainly.
To me mainly from Bicks etc feedback that Luke wasn't a need and would be a serviceable aFL player at best.
Time will reveal all.
I am not a Hamish fan but more positive about this years selection although Rowe at 38 still has me wondering and think was wanted as need immediate.

When it comes to Luke Edwards the biggest unknown I want to uncover is why his form wavered so wildly from his underage year where he was projected to go in the first round, to his draft year where he almost went completely undrafted (6th to last pick after NGAs).

Considering 60% of the draft prospects didn't even play in 2020, that slide was dramatic..

 

[kulak]

Pyke-skeptical is probably also barking up the wrong tree with our issues. Every coach is going to be intimately involved in the process, they need to be as the draft is the way they shape their football side. Ultimately, Hamish picked Gallucci and if he thought someone was better, he would have picked them.

Mainly its how disgustingly cheap, bare boned and toxic our off-field staff ended up being. It's a damn hard gig to be a even remotely successful recruiter if everyone you are picking gets handed to Burton, Hass, Campo, Hart and co to butcher.

You say “Ultimately, Hamish picked Gallucci and if he thought someone was better, he would have picked them”,

But we know for a fact the recruiters wanted Tim English and Pyke overruled them. I and others heard it from a Phil Bunn interview. Jenny and Kristof posted here they heard it directly from Pyke at a club function.

So your statement is already wrong. Hamish did not get to choose the player he wanted due to Pyke’s guidelines.

The extension is speculation on my behalf as to why in many cases the players drafted before and after Pyke seem to be on a better path than the ones drafted during Pyke.

 

[Mutineer]

That’s new.




And yet there is light and day in results

The buck never, ever, ever, ever, stops in the middle

Shauno says hi...

 

[Mutineer]

When it comes to Luke Edwards the biggest unknown I want to uncover is why his form wavered so wildly from his underage year where he was projected to go in the first round, to his draft year where he almost went completely undrafted (6th to last pick after NGAs).

Considering 60% of the draft prospects didn't even play in 2020, that slide was dramatic..

His testing testing at both the pre-season and draft combine were very ordinary, his speed ,agility and endurance testing were reported to have been substandard. His form for the Bays U18's where he was expected to be dominant was just average playing a mix of half back and midfield and his only League game from memory he didn't do a lot until he received a concussion late in the game that saw him miss a big stretch of games.

I think his lack of athleticism was what he was marked down on because skills wise he was OK and his best assets no doubt are his composure and decision making. I think what was a major factor for us was the mixed messages the Edwards clan put out there, to me it seemed from their end they weren't all that enthusiastic about him going to the Crows so it came as no surprise to most that we passed him over.

 

[Betts are off]

His testing testing at both the pre-season and draft combine were very ordinary, his speed ,agility and endurance testing were reported to have been substandard. His form for the Bays U18's where he was expected to be dominant was just average playing a mix of half back and midfield and his only League game from memory he didn't do a lot until he received a concussion late in the game that saw him miss a big stretch of games.

I think his lack of athleticism was what he was marked down on because skills wise he was OK and his best assets no doubt are his composure and decision making. I think what was a major factor for us was the mixed messages the Edwards clan put out there, to me it seemed from their end they weren't all that enthusiastic about him going to the Crows so it came as no surprise to most that we passed him over.

With all that in mind I think playing for us would have a supremely high risk of creating a very toxic situation for all parties. If we selected him he would essentially have to become a champion of the club to avoid consistent backlash from the fans, and his own family. Probably would have torn him to pieces mentally.

At the end of the day Hamish did him and the Edwards family the biggest favour by letting him go elsewhere. And as much as watching him play well for another club will sting, he probably did the fans a favour by not souring us further on Tyson's club legacy. Because he was a champion and should be remembered that way!

 

[dude316]

2018 I think gets an unfair wrap as outside of Butters most other available picks are going about as well as Jones, or in many cases worse.

2018 was a fail for me, not so much for the draft itself, but for not doing enough beforehand to move up the draft order.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

You say “Ultimately, Hamish picked Gallucci and if he thought someone was better, he would have picked them”,

But we know for a fact the recruiters wanted Tim English and Pyke overruled them. I and others heard it from a Phil Bunn interview. Jenny and Kristof posted here they heard it directly from Pyke at a club function.

So your statement is already wrong. Hamish did not get to choose the player he wanted due to Pyke’s guidelines.

The extension is speculation on my behalf as to why in many cases the players drafted before and after Pyke seem to be on a better path than the ones drafted during Pyke.

If Jenny and Kristof are your sources, you should probably dial it back a bit. Head coaches don't "overrule" recruiters. They give input into the kinds of players they want but ultimately it's the head recruiter who makes the decision. They're the ones held accountable for recruitment. If Hamish gave too much weight to Pyke's opinions and it effected his drafting, that's on Hamish. Why would any recruiter work in a system where a person without a background in recruiting can just overrule them? How would you even determine how effective a recruiter is in a system like that?

 

[Betts are off]

2018 was a fail for me, not so much for the draft itself, but for not doing enough beforehand to move up the draft order.

2018 is only just getting into the zone where you can judge it IMO (3-5 years is generally when you know what you have), but having said that we did pick up probably 4 of the most physically underdeveloped players in that entire draft.

I can't find the photo, but I remember seeing a promo shot of Jones, McHenry, Hamill and Sholl the week they were drafted, and thinking "Wow, there is a lot of skin and bones in that photo, and not much else!"

 

[kulak]

If Jenny and Kristof are your sources, you should probably dial it back a bit. Head coaches don't "overrule" recruiters. They give input into the kinds of players they want but ultimately it's the head recruiter who makes the decision. They're the ones held accountable for recruitment. If Hamish gave too much weight to Pyke's opinions and it effected his drafting, that's on Hamish. Why would any recruiter work in a system where a person without a background in recruiting can just overrule them? How would you even determine how effective a recruiter is in a system like that?

No, a Phil Bunn interview was my source. But it was good to see it corroborated by others, they are both Brisbane based and it was a Brisbane based Crows function.

I agree with your last sentence.

 

[Vhaluus]

If Jenny and Kristof are your sources, you should probably dial it back a bit. Head coaches don't "overrule" recruiters. They give input into the kinds of players they want but ultimately it's the head recruiter who makes the decision. They're the ones held accountable for recruitment. If Hamish gave too much weight to Pyke's opinions and it effected his drafting, that's on Hamish. Why would any recruiter work in a system where a person without a background in recruiting can just overrule them? How would you even determine how effective a recruiter is in a system like that?

We've got a long history at he AFC of people having undue influence on things they shouldn't.

For example Fagan forcing our list management to "get it done" with Gibbs.

 

[dogs105]

For discussion purposes:

Matt Rendell:

ND -
Patrick Dangerfield
Andy Otten
Myke Cook
Tony Armstrong
Aaron Kite
Phil Davis
Shaun McKernan
Rory Sloane
Tom Lee
Will Young
Daniel Talia
Jack Gunston
Sam Shaw
James Craig
Brodie Smith
Jarryd Lyons
Sam Kerridge
Mitch Grigg
Nick Joyce
Cam Ellis-Yolmen

Rookie Draft:
James Moss
Jared Petrenko
Ed Curnow
Brodie Martin
Ricky Henderson
Chris Schmidt
Brian Donnelly
Luke Thompson
Matthew Wright
Matthew Jaensch
Tim Milera
Jake von Bertouch
Lachlan Roach
Ian Callinan
Sam Martyn
Rory Laird
Dylan Orval
Tim McIntyre
Will Young (again)

Expansion mini-draft:
Brad Crouch


Hamish Ogilvie:

ND-
Rory Atkins
Sam Siggins
Matt Crouch
Riley Knight
Jake Lever
Harrison Wigg
Mitch McGovern
Harry Dear
Wayne Milera
Tom Doedee
Jordan Gallucci
Myles Poholke
Elliott Himmelberg
Ben Davis
Darcy Fogarty
Andrew McPherson
Chayce Jones
Ned McHenry
Will Hamill
Lachlan Sholl
Fischer McAsey
Harry Schoenberg
Josh Worrell
Ronin O'Connor
Lachlan Gollant
Riley Thilthorpe
Luke Pedlar
Brayden Cook
Sam Berry
James Rowe

Rookie Draft:
Kyle Hartigan
Jack Osborn
Tim Klaosen
Charlie Cameron
James Battersby
Jake Kelly
Alex Spina
Reilly O'Brien
Keenan Ramsey
Anthony Wilson
Paul Hunter
Jonathon Beech
Hugh Greenwood
Alex Keath
Sam Shaw (again)
Ben Jarman
Patrick Wilson
Cam Ellis-Yolmen (again)
Lachlan Murphy
Jackson Edwards
Kieran Strachan
Paul Hunter (again)
Jordon Butts
Ben Keays
Ben Crocker
Bryce Gibbs (re-listed)
Tariek Newchurch
James Borlase

PSD:
Jackson Hately

Supplemental:
Nick Murray

Mid season rookie:
Patrick Parnell

 

[StonesThrow]

When it comes to Luke Edwards the biggest unknown I want to uncover is why his form wavered so wildly from his underage year where he was projected to go in the first round, to his draft year where he almost went completely undrafted (6th to last pick after NGAs).

Considering 60% of the draft prospects didn't even play in 2020, that slide was dramatic..

From what I saw, his form didn't slide so much as he didn't develop any stand out features. He was a solid and vanilla type player with no stand out athletic attributes, which can typically describe a player who will go onto be either an okay afl player or a good Sanfl player.

 

[dogs105]

Interesting point: Hamish Ogilvie has taken 30 picks in the national draft. 14 of them have been in the past 3 years.

 

[Ozzie]

Rendell was no better overall IMO, I think the loss of Stewart and the dwindling of our scouting stocks has put us back a bit.

I mean I wouldn't listen to Rendell these days, he's on the crocmedia gravy train.

Our recruiting team has been decimated over the last few years. This has impacted us severely

 

[Golumless]

2018 was a fail for me, not so much for the draft itself, but for not doing enough beforehand to move up the draft order.

It depends on what you end up with, not what moves you make.

The draft is a fail if we spent big on acquiring Rozee and he failed here, which considering the mess we were (and probably still are to a degree) in certainly isn't out of the question.

 

[Sanders]

Shauno says hi...

Shauno isn’t the only one high