We have a list like Carlton & Melbourne now... in 2021. We didn't have the same kind of list in 2017.
You seem to be conflating 3 or 4 different things, and coming to conclusions which make no sense at all.
Review Hamish 2021
- Thread starter mattymac
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You seem to be conflating 3 or 4 different things, and coming to conclusions which make no sense at all.
We were discussing how our list is so bad right now and his point was this started from the draft sanction where most expected us to be as poor as Carlton when they had their 2 year draft sanction and struggle for decades but I told him made finals and the Grand Final within 5 years of those 2 year draft sanction and the lower draft picks used in the 2 year draft sanction developed into gun players so the draft sanction had nothing to do with why our list is so poor right now.
The list is in the current state because of the CM which had more affect on the playing group then expected, Pyke was forced to play the senior players in 2018 and 2019 because he was still trying to make finals, then the independent review occurred and we did a huge list turnover in 2020 so there wasn't a smooth list transition. We should have been competing for the premiership those 2 years and be at the start of a smooth list transition right now.
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Ned actually reminds me of Dangerfield in his first few years.. just so hungry for the contest and sometimes bites off more than he can chew. also has the tendency to drop the odd wild brain fart in here and there.
Match report: Crows topple Cats in thrilling season opener
The underdogs claimed a 12-point win at Adelaide Ovalwww.afc.com.au
ADELAIDE 4.4 11.7 13.9 15.13 (103)
GEELONG 2.3 5.5 10.8 13.13 (91)
GOALS
Adelaide: Walker 5, Rowe 2, Frampton 2, McHenry 2, Lynch, Murphy, McAdam, Schoenberg
Geelong: Parfitt 2, Hawkins 2, Smith 2, Stanley, Rohan, Menegola, Blicavs, Guthrie, Dahlhaus, Miers
BEST
Adelaide: Walker, Laird, Sholl, McHenry, Rowe
Geelong: Dangerfield, Guthrie, Blicavs, Smith, Parfitt
INJURIES
Adelaide: Brown (sore achilles), Kelly (concussion), Hinge (shoulder)
Geelong: Menegola (shoulder)
SUBSTITUTES
Adelaide: Mitchell Hinge (replaced Luke Brown)
Geelong: Charlie Constable (replaced Sam Menegola)
that was Dangerfield in those early years.. certainly not saying hes the next paddy but just pointing out that even the best can take time to develop their game and have their footy brain mature..
Ned will get there.
Congratulations. Almost none of that is actually true, certainly not the CM stuff.
What's not true? We didn't play finals and a Grand Final with 5 years of the 2 year draft sanction. We didn't have a massive list turnover after the independent review because of the CM.
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Draft Sanctions aren't intended to hurt in the short term - but they're biting now, when the players we would have drafted would be hitting their prime. The sanctions had SFA impact on our ability to make the GF in 2017... but today they're a large part of the reason why we have a missing generation, with almost nobody in the 50-150 game bracket.
Our list turnover had very little, if anything, to do with CM.
Keep swinging, you're on two strikes so far. Care to make it 3?
What are you talking about? If we had those 4 draftee using our 1st and 2nd rounders would they be better players than Cameron, M.Crouch and Laird who had the opportunity to develop into gun players, very highly unlikely so we didn't miss any of those generation. If the independent review of the CM didn't occur Pyke would still be senior coach and push for finals in 2020 with Keath, Greenwood, Jacob, CEY, Betts, Jenkins and Douglas (who still wanted to play but was "forced" to retire) instead of the huge list turnover.
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Bump...
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Going by yesterday, that 2018 draft wasn't so bad was it.
Golumless
A bigger deal out west.
Eh?
Draft sanctions absolutely did impact our grand final run. It probably cost us a premiership, if not a dynasty. After all that's another 4 22-23 year olds and potentially one or two more jets seeing our record with 1st round picks at that point was impeccable. We made the GF in spite of draft sanctions.
They're still hurting now. After all that's another 4 players we've lost that could have either prevented a hard rebuild, assisted with this rebuild, or more draft picks to rebuild with.
Draft sanctions are designed to hurt from the 2nd year onwards and they string for over a decade.
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And our first two picks - Jones and Hately - could still come on.
He does improve almost each game he plays. Still got in trouble a few times yesterday but at least he's on an upward trajectory. Helps that he's stronger now.Bump...
We're hurting now, when those players would have been in their prime, and your comments about the rebuild exactly mirror my own.
2017... not so much.
And would those 4 early picks developed into better players as M.Crouch, Cameron and Laird who were all late picks and had the opportunity to develop because these early picks weren't available, history shows it's very rare you get more than 4 gun players in both years due to the opportunity and list turnovers.
- Thread starter
- #115
Was great to see.Match report: Crows topple Cats in thrilling season opener
The underdogs claimed a 12-point win at Adelaide Oval
ADELAIDE 4.4 11.7 13.9 15.13 (103)
GEELONG 2.3 5.5 10.8 13.13 (91)
GOALS
Adelaide: Walker 5, Rowe 2, Frampton 2, McHenry 2, Lynch, Murphy, McAdam, Schoenberg
Geelong: Parfitt 2, Hawkins 2, Smith 2, Stanley, Rohan, Menegola, Blicavs, Guthrie, Dahlhaus, Miers
BEST
Adelaide: Walker, Laird, Sholl, McHenry, Rowe
Geelong: Dangerfield, Guthrie, Blicavs, Smith, Parfitt
INJURIES
Adelaide: Brown (sore achilles), Kelly (concussion), Hinge (shoulder)
Geelong: Menegola (shoulder)
SUBSTITUTES
Adelaide: Mitchell Hinge (replaced Luke Brown)
Geelong: Charlie Constable (replaced Sam Menegola)
You know what? Having watched most of this round, I think the rules changes will really help McHenry. It's no longer so congested. So he won't have so many blokes tight around him and can't run himself into trouble as much as we've seen previously.
I'm even hopeful the new opened up game might benefit Jones as well
The review wasn't of CM, it was of the football dept as a whole.
- Thread starter
- #117
My main issue with him was his thought process in tight. Regularly tried to do too much and ran himself into trouble.
The game is no longer so tight and contested with these rules changes. They've opened it up immensely.
It's almost like a new game. Roll around, slice and dice. Team defence and congested contested footy are going to take a back seat to more man on man fast flowing footy.
Look at the scores. The quick bursts of scoring. The low tackle counts. The game has changed.
jackster83
The Ratpack!
He made a few mistakes early on Saturday, but that first goal really seemed to get him going. Was good presence of mind to play on quickly too.
Anyone keeping a small eye on Logan McDonald also?
- Aug 9, 2019
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No doubt, but only the Thilthorpe naysayers I'd think.
That’s what happens when your in premiership mode. You try and get top players in to win a flag. I was on record to say I hated the Gibbs trade, the price was too high but not the decision. Pyke wanted a flag and if we fell straight after it’s still a success.
young players don’t get many opportunities if you are near the top. We are now in a position where Nicks can play the youngsters without fear of his job. I happy to say that he is and giving them some responsibility as well. We also had a stale coaching panel that didn’t change much for a few years.
Hamish’s time to shine is now, the young players will get games and there will be no more excuses. He is not to blame for all of this shit we are in.
If CM didn't occurred which caused "further" disharmony between the coach and playing group there is no way a review would have happened.
- Thread starter
- #123
Sure, but history is full of examples of kids good at NAB or SANFL level not being able to go on with it at AFL level.
And let's be honest, McHenry had shown nothing in his 8 AFL games. Not even glimpses other than effort.
Playing as a forward, zero goals, even zero goal assists.
Let's be careful about calling him an AFL player just yet. But the signs are good that these new rules might benefit players like him. He struggled having two or three blokes closing him down immediately in the previous team defence dominated game.
Even Tex kicked 5 without 2 or 3 getting back and hanging off him. He seemed 5 years younger. Let's hope it's real and the rule changes continue to open the game up.
As I said before I reckon Jones could also benefit hugely from the more open game this year.
- Thread starter
- #124
Ok sure. The new open free flowing game had no effect. 8 games of experience was the game changer.
Playing his best game after not playing AFL for 6 months is further evidence that AFL experience is all he needed. Got it.
- Aug 9, 2019
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The game changer is he finally has his body right after experiencing severe back spasms after his car accident, hence the fact he has mentioned several times the fitness/conditioning department have been able to work on strengthening him through the core. Then Covid struck last year, hardly the time for a developing player playing in a team getting flogged for most of the season. The proof of the pudding will be in the eating.
