Hawks - Bubble Bursting or One Poor Night

[Leather Poisoning]

Re: See the Hawks fall

I concur. we have doen well but some of the other contenders have got some key personnel back recently, and you can see where their improvement might come from. On last night Its hard to see where our improvement might come from. Prthaps it will show. We do have 4 'home' games from 6 - 2 in tassie.

I do agree we wont slip that far - even last night we salvaged our percentage advantage despite losing - and 2001 underlined we can be a ferocious finals team.

Well I'm really hoping that Williams' return makes our forward thrusts a lot less predictable and more effective.

Bombing the ball into the box only works when we are on top of a team and really have some momentum. When the game is in the balance our honouring of leads is what gets us in front. I think We've got the personnel and ability to win games like last night and it frustrates me that we lose. St Kilda were good, but they cashed in on our predictability!

We do have room for improvement and it's in our entries into 50. If we can correct that we will definitely be top 4 possibly win a final or two. If that doesn't happen who knows where we'll end up?

 

[Leather Poisoning]

Tell me, what happened to your 'pact' not to troll Hawthorn after losing in miserable fashion to the club?

Short-lived.

In other news, seeing as how we are the only team in the competition not to lose two games in a row, I think we're in good stead.

We'll need to make the Top 4, but even if we lose our first final, the mentality that Clarkson has brought to the club should see us at least make it to the Prelims.

At least 3 more wins for the season then, that's good news!

But yes, we have played well in the games that followed a loss. Not like previous years where a loss would turn into a 3-4 game losing streak.

 

[CF]

Desite having a good year, you have to wonder about the hawks consistency recently. Maybe it's just that time of year when you get a few upsets from the bottom teams? Maybe it is just injury or the grind of the season taking its toll on the players? The Hawks will make the 8 and probably top 4, so you can't really fault them overall for a great year.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

Desite having a good year, you have to wonder about the hawks consistency recently. Maybe it's just that time of year when you get a few upsets from the bottom teams? Maybe it is just injury or the grind of the season taking its toll on the players? The Hawks will make the 8 and probably top 4, so you can't really fault them overall for a great year.

Since the mid-season break we haven't seemed the same side. (50% winning return since then, 75% winning return before the break)

Yes, there has been a huge improvement this year, here is where it's gone wrong recently:

-Boyle's injury hurt us up forward and Jacobs' injury hurt us down back. Osbourne's injury has been understated in the effect it's had on our team.
-Other teams are getting players back from injury and playing better footy at the right end of the season. (St Kilda best example of this, Adelaide as well)
-We need a second gameplan for when the box doesn't work.

If we fix the plan B issue we'll win games like last night and take the next step I believe.

 

[mulhollanddrive]

We've been off our game for most of the past month.

- Young side, bodies not use to playing full seasons. 35%
- Gameplan has been found out, no plan B, Our running midfielders have been shut down in more games lately. 25%
- Lack of versatility in the forward 50, also lack of crumbing and pressure. 20%
- Devliery inside 50 has been quite average 10%
- The odd injury, but i dont think this is a major factor. 10%

 

[Bazzar]

Blah, blah, blah, blah.... Here come all the pathetic excusess. One minute they are telling us they are the greatest thing since sliced bread now they realise they are overated, out come the pathetic excusses. Sad

 

[Bollox]

Hawthorn fans should be stoked to be where they are...way ahead of most estimations and optimistic schedules. Be ecstatic if they can hang on to a top 6 slot after 22.

What u came up against was a finals hardened team of mature bodies that cant afford to lose a game...still nowhere near the intensity of finals footy but a sign of what u can expect.

They might sit in 11th but they are there because of injuries earlier in the season...no surprise that as soon as they got much of their list back they came good again.

Dont read too much into it...but they always looked too strong in that game and still havent hit form yet.

 

[jazz]

Blah, blah, blah, blah.... Here come all the pathetic excusess. One minute they are telling us they are the greatest thing since sliced bread now they realise they are overated, out come the pathetic excusses. Sad

Leave the discussion to supporters of teams that can actually win a game of football.

 

[jazz]

Hawthorn fans should be stoked to be where they are...way ahead of most estimations and optimistic schedules. Be ecstatic if they can hang on to a top 6 slot after 22.

What u came up against was a finals hardened team of mature bodies that cant afford to lose a game...still nowhere near the intensity of finals footy but a sign of what u can expect.

They might sit in 11th but they are there because of injuries earlier in the season...no surprise that as soon as they got much of their list back they came good again.

Dont read too much into it...but they always looked too strong in that game and still havent hit form yet.

I was worried about the desperate Saints and we wasted a lot of opportunities with poor kicking and dumb mistakes. It looked a bit like we thought it would be easier than it actually was.

Playing Richmond the week before will do that to you!

We have backed up well after losses this year - the game against the Kangaroos will tell us a lot.

 

[Bazzar]

Leave the discussion to supporters of teams that can actually win a game of football.

Havnt you had a close look at the ladder yet

 

[_RT_]

Tell me, what happened to your 'pact' not to troll Hawthorn after losing in miserable fashion to the club?

Short-lived.

In other news, seeing as how we are the only team in the competition not to lose two games in a row, I think we're in good stead.

We'll need to make the Top 4, but even if we lose our first final, the mentality that Clarkson has brought to the club should see us at least make it to the Prelims.

Not at all, firstly this is a pre exsisting thread to which I have added. Secondly I said I would not start anymore threads about the Hawks which I haven't nor have I responded to any new threads since that game. Finally this is not trolling it is asking legitimate questions.

You support a team that is in the race for the top 4 surely asking if they are feeling the pressure is a legitimate question to ask.

 

[SA HAWK]

Not at all, firstly this is a pre exsisting thread to which I have added. Secondly I said I would not start anymore threads about the Hawks which I haven't nor have I responded to any new threads since that game. Finally this is not trolling it is asking legitimate questions.

You support a team that is in the race for the top 4 surely asking if they are feeling the pressure is a legitimate question to ask.

We won't make top 4. Might make the 8. Happy?

 

[Rik E Boy]

It don't mean a thing if you aint got that Ling

The Hawks don't seem to have a lockdown player. It don't mean a thing if you don't have that Ling. Example: Dal Santo almost dies of leather poisoning against Hawthorn but against the Cats he isn't a factor in the game. Not the sole reason for the respective results of course but it's hardly secret squirrel that Dal Santo struggles with the tag.

Apologies sports fans for I didn't get the opportunity to watch the Hawks v St Kilda match (darn double up programming!)...did the Hawks have a run with player on Dal Santo (or Montanga would have been an idea) and do the Hawks actually have one?

Another interesting note is how much joy the odd Hawk slip up is creating for Richmond fans. Not selecting Roughead or Franklin is creating even more bitterness than the Ottens trade it would appear.

regards,

REB

 

[_RT_]

We won't make top 4. Might make the 8. Happy?

Not at all, would like to see the Hawks give it a shake, just asking if it is starting to get a bit much for them thats all.

 

[SA HAWK]

Not at all, would like to see the Hawks give it a shake, just asking if it is starting to get a bit much for them thats all.

Next 3 games will tell the story i think. We need to win 2 of those or i think we may miss the 8.

 

[Falchoon]

Re: See the Hawks fall

That would describe 15 other teams atm - even geelong - theyve got bartel, ablett and....

you could describe players like Kelly as classy, Johnson definitely, but where the Cats are doing well is depth, the Hawks/Saints etc 18th/19th player is nowhere near that of the Cats.

5 or so quality father/son selections is making a huge difference for them in terms of list depth, much like the Lions. All is equal in draft land....

 

[lions_den]

second most overrated team behind the kangas

 

[SA HAWK]

second most overrated team behind the kangas

And why do you think we are overrated? We have beaten geelong,collingwood, west coast, kangaroos and port(away). Thats a pretty good effort against the top sides in the comp.

 

[Palmer Stoat]

And why do you think we are overrated? We have beaten geelong,collingwood, west coast, kangaroos and port(away). Thats a pretty good effort against the top sides in the comp.

Yep, I agree. Their record against the top teams means you've gotta take them seriously as a top four chance, and therefore a flag contender. The fact that they're having a mini-slump isn't that surprising. Most teams' form will ebb and flow during a 22-game season. Just last year, WC went through a terrible patch in the last third of the season and still managed to come away with the flag. Hawthorn's just have to make sure they do enough to stay top four. If they do this, they can have a real crack come finals time.

 

[SA HAWK]

Yep, I agree. Their record against the top teams means you've gotta take them seriously as a top four chance, and therefore a flag contender. The fact that they're having a mini-slump isn't that surprising. Most teams' form will ebb and flow during a 22-game season. Just last year, WC went through a terrible patch in the last third of the season and still managed to come away with the flag. Hawthorn's just have to make sure they do enough to stay top four. If they do this, they can have a real crack come finals time.

I don't think we are a flag contender but we have earned our current spot on the ladder by beating 5 out of the 7 teams we have played that are currently in the 8. We have a pretty tough draw playing teams that are either in the 8 or just out and desperate to win. Unlike collingwood and port power who both play carlton, melbourne and richmond twice making it a lot easier for those sides to make top 4.

Port have only beaten 3 teams currently in the 8 and only 1 of them since round 4 and that was a badly out of form and injury depleted west coast. Not convinced about them yet.

 

[Palmer Stoat]

I don't think we are a flag contender but we have earned our current spot on the ladder by beating 5 out of the 7 teams we have played that are currently in the 8. We have a pretty tough draw playing teams that are either in the 8 or just out and desperate to win. Unlike collingwood and port power who both play carlton, melbourne and richmond twice making it a lot easier for those sides to make top 4.

Port have only beaten 3 teams currently in the 8 and only 1 of them since round 4 and that was a badly out of form and injury depleted west coast. Not convinced about them yet.

I think Geelong are hot favourites for the flag, and I think WC are clearly the biggest threats to them. IMO there's a bit of a gap back to next best -- whoever that is. I certainly don't think sides like Hawthorn or Collingwood are the best chances to win the flag, but if they can get their best teams on the park and score top-four positions, I wouldn't write them off. I haven't seen enough of Port this year to know where they stand in the pecking order. I rate the Saints, but even if they scrape into the finals, they're gonna finish too far back to win the whole thing.

I'm still pretty confident that the Cats will break the drought.

 

[Chewy]

Re: See the Hawks fall

The Hawks have been playing well above themselves.

Tonight was a good reality check for the Hawks- they are not a contender in 2007.

It was a finals' intensity game tonight and the Hawks were lacking.

Expect tonight to be the start of the Hawks' fall.

Hawthorn has a come a long way in a short space of time. They've risen from 14th place in Round 17, 2006 to 2nd place in Round 15, 2007. They might've peaked on their run and find things tough from here on. You look at their draw and most of the remaining games are virtual knock-out finals. They'll be doing well to hold their place. (NM, Ess, Bris, Port, WB, Syd)

The bird brains will see this as a chance to gloat. Their memories only go back about 3 months and they've forgotten the giant strides the team has made. But most Hawk fans are pretty happy with 2007 and hope for a finals victory.

I don't think they've played "above themselves" in 2007. I think the team has played hard and has played well as a unit, but there is still plenty of improvement left. They are still one of the youngest teams in the comp. Without Boyle and Williams up forward, they are relying on a couple of 20 year olds to kick a score.

Every time Hawthorn has lost this year, the experts have labelled it as a "reality check"
If you think about it, when is a loss NOT a reality check?

They only reason that Hawthorn losses are described as a reality check is because they're young and they are not rated as contenders by most people. So it's just a lazy description. It doesn't really mean anything. The players have never gotten ahead of themselves. They haven't forgotten the pain of the previous three years and carried on like they were flag certainties in 2007.

The same "experts" who talk about reality checks are probably the same people who denigrated Geelong in 2006 and said they needed a clean out, said there was no speed, no flair, no leadership, no character, the coach was hopeless, etc, etc. Yep, those experts are now lining up to praise the Cats.

I disagree that the intensity was "finals-like" on Saturday night. I thought Hawthorn were fairly lacklustre and the full-strength St Kilda laboured the victory. It was hardly convincing stuff. The intensity was nowhere near the same level as the Collingwood game in Round 14. The young Hawks coped with Collingwood's intensity fairly well that night.

The Saints are a good side, more experienced and battle-hardened than Hawthorn. They are also running into some good form, so our three goal defeat isn't the end of the world. I'd still rather be in our shoes than in their shoes.

 

[sgbn77]

Well said Chewy.

I agree, the Hawks seemed flat on the weekend, and even the Saints who won, didn't demolish us. It was well won by the Saints, but they had most of their team back, and seemed to be "getting into a groove". Whether or not they'll roll into the finals remains to be seen, but they did what needed to be done.

Over the last few years I've noted that the media and many footy fans use the snowball approach to information. Someone comments that the Hawks don't like it "finals-like" and "in close", then its repeated ad nauseum for the remainder of the season. The catalyst for that comment was the Swans match...which ended up being decided by 9 points. Since then, we're written off constantly for not being able to match it with the big bodied players or under an intensive pace. I'd argue that we dispelled that against the Pies...hardly big bodied, but a very intensive match.

My concern is we've really not 'got going' again since the break. We were slaughtered by the Crows, and that wouldn't have changed if our form was a bit better, but in all other games, including loses, and even the wins again the Tigers and Pies, we just haven't been firing on all cylinders, in my opinion. We start matches very slowly, and we seem to use the interchange like a revolving door, assuming we'll run over sides in the second half. On saturday, a mark to a Hawks player was overturned when Hudgeton milked a free from Franklin, and later Roughie missed a sitter from in front. Saints goaled on both occasions and the result was virtually decided. The momentum was gone.

What I'm hoping is, win or lose, the Hawks hit games head on and play themselves back into form. We didn't get to 2nd by a fluke, we've beaten some quality sides...but I hope that we just lost form momentarily with the split round, rather than the young players dropping off, as history suggests they will in the second half of the season.

Time will tell. Roos look damn hard to beat.

 

[dan warna]

it was an exciting game.

I guess buddy kicked 5:5 didn't help.

but then we misssed sitters.

I would say st kilda still have room to improve which would worry many sides, and that wasn't our 'a' game and maguire, ball, max, x clarke amongst others have room to improve.

on the flip side the hawks had a fair few who have room to improve, roughhead was not really there, buddy was brilliant but missed shots he may have got on another day, mitchell didn't really turn the lights on till the 4th quarter...etc.

hawks have room to improve and need only 4 or 5 games to ensure a top 4 berth and 2 or 3 to guarantee finals. St kilda need to pretty much win everything to get into the finals.

both sides will have the opposition worried.

 

[Pessimistic]

If a mini slump is only winning 50% I'll take that.

We have not lost 2 in a row and are 5-0 agin the other top 6 (5-6 agin the rest)

We have 4 home games and 2 away to come

I'm not jumping off just yet


In fact the media seem to be totally ignoring the fact we are 5-0 against the others in the top 6.

And how young are we really ? we have less first year players than others.

Buddy Roughy Lewis, Campbell have 50 games or so- that is where our improvement has come from

Thered be at least 12 more experienced and older ' than them