List Mgmt. Hawk's List Management 2023

[Simon Crawshay]

I am so grateful that you are nowhere near our list management.

Did you not see what happened to us when we had no rucks in 2022 available.....

TBH I have been mildly disappointed with Meeks output this year, I am surprised that such a massive unit as he is struggles to enforce himself physically at times.

But in saying that we definetly needed a capable backup ruckman as insurance and at the very least Meek is that.

I hope he can have a better year next year and unlock his potential but we will have to wait and see how that turns out.

 

[Yardie]

TBH I have been mildly disappointed with Meeks output this year, I am surprised that such a massive unit as he is struggles to enforce himself physically at times.

But in saying that we definetly needed a capable backup ruckman as insurance and at the very least Meek is that.

I hope he can have a better year next year and unlock his potential but we will have to wait and see how that turns out.

Agree. I was all in on the two rucks train. However, they have struggled together as a unit (with some games where it worked) and the Carlton game where Silvagni tore them up changed my thinking. I much prefer one ruckman with a Kosi/Ramsden second ruck type that is more mobile.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

Agree. I was all in on the two rucks train. However, they have struggled together as a unit (with some games where it worked) and the Carlton game where Silvagni tore them up changed my thinking. I much prefer one ruckman with a Kosi/Ramsden second ruck type that is more mobile.

Yes not much point playing two 200cm+ monsters if they are going to get owned in the ruck by an192cm journeyman utility.

Even the Dees can't make a ruck duo work and they have the best two ruckmen of the last ten years to work with.

We have looked much better with Reeves plus Kossy playing backup ruck. Reeves seems to play better when he rucks most of the game and it also helps Kosy get involved as well.

 

[SammyC]

Dees have discovered there is a cost to two rucks if they can't impact forward. Max kicks goals but more floating forward from the ruck rather than as a fwd. Grundy has never been able to do it - just listen to Bucks.

So we have two rucks who cant impact fwd and offer limited value around the ground. Reeves is ahead because of the hit out / clearance value. But I think Meek has more upside in terms of being able to impact around the ground and fwd.

Seems like some days Meek takes the angry pills and is really physical and imposes himself. Other days he just doesn't. More consistency in that area will see him close the gap with Ned but I still think we only play one of them, with a more mobile fwd/ruck type (Kosi / Ramsden / Ryan). That gives us more flexibility and unlocks bench spot for more run.

 

[barbster]

All my Freo mates can’t watch JOM. They are off him big time.

Haha… all my Freo mates are off Freo big time.

 

[Sixpence]

Agree. I was all in on the two rucks train. However, they have struggled together as a unit (with some games where it worked) and the Carlton game where Silvagni tore them up changed my thinking. I much prefer one ruckman with a Kosi/Ramsden second ruck type that is more mobile.

To be fair, two rucks worked well enough in our wins against St Kilda and Brisbane. I have liked the combo of Reeves and Kosi though.

 

[barbster]

You obviously have posted this without watching much if any of freo all season. O'meara has regressed terribly this season and you would be hard pressed to find a freo supporter who has been happy with his form, with most wanting him playing wafl and will brodie brought in. Meek hasn't set the world on fire but at least he's still young enough , when he can bring his physicality for more then a few minutes in each game he will be fine.

O’Meara was named in the bests for Freo for 5 weeks straight, from their Brisbane game through to the Melbourne game. How many times has Meek been named in Hawthorn’s best?
I live in Perth so know the mentality of Freo supporters, most were calling Luke Jackson ‘No Action Jackson’ earlier in the year and look at how that has panned out.

 

[Billyc]

Summary of this list management thread:

Poster: X might be in trouble of being delisted.
Other poster: That's what people said about Moore and Nash. And don't forget about Alex Rance

Alex Rance

Age

35

Ht

194cm

Wt

95kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.6

4star

K

8.9

3star

HB

7.7

5star

M

5.7

5star

T

2.4

4star

MG

226.9

3star

No current season stats available

D

17.0

5star

K

5.8

3star

HB

11.2

5star

M

5.0

5star

T

3.6

5star

and Michael Tuck.

Repeat.

For every one player who looks on the cusp of getting delisted but turns it around, there are dozens around the competition each year who are simply delisted. A few will be delisted from our list again this year, regardless of the irrelevant fact that Moore and Nash turned things around when they looked in trouble a couple years ago.

 

[Tony3163]

O’Meara was named in the bests for Freo for 5 weeks straight, from their Brisbane game through to the Melbourne game. How many times has Meek been named in Hawthorn’s best?

I live in Perth so know the mentality of Freo supporters, most were calling Luke Jackson ‘No Action Jackson’ earlier in the year and look at how that has panned out.

He had 5 kick and 9 handballs in the 100pt win against WC.
Meek is clearly more value to us than O’Meara, in fact if O’Meara stayed, it would have been a negative for our development.
Move on from this nonsense.

O’Meara was named in the bests for Freo for 5 weeks straight, from their Brisbane game through to the Melbourne game. How many times has Meek been named in Hawthorn’s best?
I live in Perth so know the mentality of Freo supporters, most were calling Luke Jackson ‘No Action Jackson’ earlier in the year and look at how that has panned out.

 

[Dewwwww]

I Don’t understand the Meek talk in here.

If we didn’t have Meek on the list we would currently only have Reeves as a suitable ruckman. Ramsden is 3yrs away from being able to ruck full time and Tucker is a bean pole and only what 19yo?

Meek is ready to go and has played his best football for us when he has been the sole ruckman. You only have to look at Reeves shoulder injury last year to see that Meek is 1 injury away from playing every week as the sole ruckman. He is 25 years old and is physically ready to go.

If we are to play finals next year we are going to need to keep some serious depth on the list Re your Morrison / Long / Meek / Kozi etc.

I just can’t see us cutting the list too deep how young we already are

 

[Billyc]

Mind boggling that Freo gave JOM a four year contract TBH. He is already borderline cooked in the first year of that deal (could argue he was cooked in the first year of his Hawks deal as well).

That trade along with the ridiculously over the top price they paid for Jackson showed they really jumped the Shark last trade period.

Jackson has actually been terrific since Darcy has been out. The biggest problem for them is that they didn't expect to drop down the ladder so didn't think it was pick 4 or 5 they were trading away.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

Jackson has actually been terrific since Darcy has been out. The biggest problem for them is that they didn't expect to drop down the ladder so didn't think it was pick 4 or 5 they were trading away.

They have a similar problem that Melbourne have with Gawm and Grundy though.

Jackson can only play well as a sole ruck and struggles to be a forward/ruck.

And they already had one of the best rucks in the business in Darcy.

They essentially paid a massive price for a ruckman they didn't actually need (at least the Dees only gave up a late second rounder for Grundy and the Pies pay half his salary).

 

[barbster]

I am so grateful that you are nowhere near our list management.

Did you not see what happened to us when we had no rucks in 2022 available.....

What happened in 2022? We went into one game without a ruck?
Who was our list manager last year?

I am all for having rucks and was hoping we would have gone all out for Grundy, could have been part of the Mitchell deal instead of Stephens. But we seemed hellbent on getting Meek in, maybe this was due to Hale having first hand knowledge of Meek??

 

[Mercy Seat]

Summary of this list management thread:

Poster: X might be in trouble of being delisted.
Other poster: That's what people said about Moore and Nash. And don't forget about Alex Rance and Michael Tuck.

Repeat.

For every one player who looks on the cusp of getting delisted but turns it around, there are dozens around the competition each year who are simply delisted. A few will be delisted from our list again this year, regardless of the irrelevant fact that Moore and Nash turned things around when they looked in trouble a couple years ago.

Yep, and despite the eventual uproar at certain delistings, not one of the dozens of players we've delisted over the past few years has gone onto any form of success at another club.

There's a heap more than just what's produced on field that informs these decisions including internal markers, personality, etc. Trust the club to get it right.

 

[TheFourPillars]

What happened in 2022? We went into one game without a ruck?
Who was our list manager last year?

I am all for having rucks and was hoping we would have gone all out for Grundy, could have been part of the Mitchell deal instead of Stephens. But we seemed hellbent on getting Meek in, maybe this was due to Hale having first hand knowledge of Meek??

The key to trading in players to a club is that said player actually wanting to go to that club. Grundy was never coming to Hawthorn. He wanted to go to a contending club and hence ended up at Melbourne.

 

[Mercy Seat]

What happened in 2022? We went into one game without a ruck?
Who was our list manager last year?

I am all for having rucks and was hoping we would have gone all out for Grundy, could have been part of the Mitchell deal instead of Stephens. But we seemed hellbent on getting Meek in, maybe this was due to Hale having first hand knowledge of Meek??

We reached out to Grundy, he had no interest in coming to us.

 

[Billyc]

Yep, and despite the eventual uproar at certain delistings, not one of the dozens of players we've delisted over the past few years has gone onto any form of success at another club.

There's a heap more than just what's produced on field that informs these decisions including internal markers, personality, etc. Trust the club to get it right.

Yes once actually delisted or traded, they become Josh Kennedy for a few weeks, and are then quickly forgotten.

 

[barbster]

We reached out to Grundy, he had no interest in coming to us.

I thought he wasn’t interest in leaving Collingwood as well.
Which other rucks did we approach? Lobb?

 

[Walshawk]

I Don’t understand the Meek talk in here.

If we didn’t have Meek on the list we would currently only have Reeves as a suitable ruckman. Ramsden is 3yrs away from being able to ruck full time and Tucker is a bean pole and only what 19yo?

Meek is ready to go and has played his best football for us when he has been the sole ruckman. You only have to look at Reeves shoulder injury last year to see that Meek is 1 injury away from playing every week as the sole ruckman. He is 25 years old and is physically ready to go.

If we are to play finals next year we are going to need to keep some serious depth on the list Re your Morrison / Long / Meek / Kozi etc.

I just can’t see us cutting the list too deep how young we already are

Meek is the new Ceglar. 10 games a year. Perfect back up.

 

[barbster]

Yes once actually delisted or traded, they become Josh Kennedy for a few weeks, and are then quickly forgotten.

Issac Smith says hi

 

[s_wd6]

They have a similar problem that Melbourne have with Gawm and Grundy though.

Jackson can only play well as a sole ruck and struggles to be a forward/ruck.

And they already had one of the best rucks in the business in Darcy.

They essentially paid a massive price for a ruckman they didn't actually need (at least the Dees only gave up a late second rounder for Grundy and the Pies pay half his salary).

No we don’t. Jackson has several games playing with Darcy where he was close to bog. Our best games all year had Jackson forward and Darcy main ruck.

 

[Yardie]

What happened in 2022? We went into one game without a ruck?
Who was our list manager last year?

I am all for having rucks and was hoping we would have gone all out for Grundy, could have been part of the Mitchell deal instead of Stephens. But we seemed hellbent on getting Meek in, maybe this was due to Hale having first hand knowledge of Meek??

You really should read back at every response to your suggestion. You gotta know when to fold 'em......but you are living in the West so expect you to be a bit behind the times.......

(apologies to westhawk and others, couldn't resist as a fellow west aussie)

 

[Billyc]

Issac Smith says hi

What does a 3 time Hawthorn premiership player who left as a free agent have to do with battling fringe players who are moved on every year?

 

[moginie]

Issac Smith says hi

Yeah, and FWIW Tom Schneider waves back.

 

[BIGHAWK23]

If we weren’t paying $500k of O’Meara’s salary, second round pick wouldn’t have been on the table.
Basically it was an O’Meara for Meek swap.
I know which player I’d prefer.

This is a horrendous statement

• If we weren’t paying $500k of his salary, he would still be slowing up our midfield and Worpel probably isn’t playing as well as he is
• The pick allowed us to trade for Weddle
• We had no other ruckman, it’s poor list management to go into a season without 2 healthy AFL standard ruckman

If you genuinely believe we would be better off with O’Meara instead of Meek, you are frankly deluded or just stubborn