Review Hawks vs Pies - Do the Autopsy Here

[Shwab]

This game will frustrate the players more than any of us. They are a proud bunch of blokes, it will hurt them to play so well for two weeks and just lose, then get smashed by the pies.

Renouf was good, hodge saved us from a 200 point embarrasment.

Plenty to look forward to in 2010, sewell and Shiels will bring a dozen more tackles, Burgoyne some silky disposal, hooper some forward pressure and buddy some goals. Would be great to have them in for next week

 

[ryzz]

agreed, calling for clarko to be sacked is complete BS, however we were BS tonight.

renouf is playing really well imo, our backline i dont think is that bad at all, starting to work, i mean missing gibbo / croad type is hurting but shoey is coming along (his disposal isnt that bad, its his decision making that can be at times questionable, but 17 other blokes on the field wearing his threads are surely making it tough for him AND THE REST OF THE BACKLINE!) and our forward line just cannot do a thing right!

also, a few queries:

as said in another topic, at the game, and off the ball cyrils groin really looked to be troubling him?

why do our midfielders not kick goals? geelong are great at generating some scoring from their mids, especially charging through the centre square and snaffling one, why are we not doing it? not even taking shots, yet not hitting our targets in the forward line who are getting often into 2v1 contests not in our favour??? and / or handballing sideways accross HF until we can pop it up to browny / roughy on 2 / buddy on 3 etc.? i mean dont go blazing away but tonight i saw a few that we coulda pinged.

and also, from where i was sitting the hit X took didnt look too bad, will cloke get sighted for negligence or whatever causing (potentially) serious injury like buddy did...not at all calling for him to be rubbed out though!

just thoughts on these?

 

[Luisa]

Who cares about the post?????

That was the worst performance from a team in the history of the game considering the talent we had out on the park and the opposition...Collingwood are nowhere aswell

All lead by the direction of the senior coach and his assistants..

If they do not get this group up and playing finals this year...bye bye Al..

It is completely unaccpetable to have the list and resources we have and not make finals 2 years running....anyway enough said, i don't blame the players 1 iota..

this is possibly one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard somebody say. I completely see how it's not any of the players faults that they cannot hit a target, that they continually kick to the opposition, that they can't (when the very point of the game is to) kick goals.

They should take a long hard look at themselves after the performance they dished up tonight.

 

[Booo!]

It staggers me how many people are crying like little biatches on this thread. Here's all you need to say

"I'm angry/sad/dissappointed that we lost today"
"Our (insert incisive analytical point - eg poor disposal, too many handballs etc) lost us the game"

"Hopefully we play up to our potential next week"

ANYONE who calls for sacking of the coach after one bad game should f*** off to Richmond - you are a d**** (pity they don't have a d*** shaped emoticon)

But to those who want to keep publishing s*** on this board I reckon the mods should do a DailyShow styled thread in about ten weeks time just showing all these knobbish comments so we can remember who the f**** among us are

I think it's pretty safe to say all of us, by virtue of coming here after such a shocking effort, are tragics and will all be back again next week- doesn't mean it wasn't the crappest footy in a few years- and should be answered for.
A FTA televised game against the Pies at the G, about 70,000 in the stands, and this is what we serve up? Do you reckon our membership team is impressed with that effort?
That was puss.

Roughead - Do our forwards even lead anymore?
Lewis- Can't go him cos of the knock last week, shouldn't have been out there obviously.
Ladson- at leat looked dangerous with a run once or twice.
Osborne- I love the guy, but something, anything?
Ellis- Worst game in my memory. Does this guy get hurt buying the milk each morning? Starting to question his value at afl level if this is the case.
Young- Still licks long, still misses long.
Morton- trying hard..... but so is the boundary umpire.
Moss- forward pocket or out, exposed relentlessly.
Murphy- ok........
Brown- started back great, moved forward to the laughter of the Collingwood fwd line, bench and cheer squad.
Whitecross- whitewho?

Players crap, and coaching crap. Really, that might have been 20 goals. I'm even worried about facing North and Essendon.

 

[Dewwwww]

Time to send Rough to Box Hill for a week! Remember the saints did it not so long ago with Nick Dal Santo and it worked a treat! I just cant see how a player can be so inconsistant. The bloke has soo much talent but his confidence looks shot, the team needs a wake up call and this could hopefully send a message to the rest of the group!

 

[killerspud]

Don't think many of you realised we played potentially the two best teams in the comp back to back and then played collingwood - all with a FULL DAYS LESS preparation. The Cats and Dogs game were bruising physical encounters that sapped our team - we were ripe for the picking today and I reckon most of the 16 AFL clubs would have got us (maybe not Richmond or Adelaide but the rest certainly)

Look at a few facts -

After our bonecrunching game against the Cats, the reigning premiers then when to Fremantle and lost

After our bruising encounter with the Dogs, the premiership favourites were run down by Brisbane.

As Clarkson said in his press conference - we get the same amount of time to prepare next week as our opponent. Let's give it another two rounds before we start trashing the club.

I promise you who start going players and senior coach I will happily name you in the weeks to come when we come good

 

[Adebisi]

embarrasing pathetic and hopeless..never want to see moss murphy and morton in a hawk jumper again blind freddy can see there not up to it..WELL DONE LUKE HODGE,the only one who gave his all and tried to the end.

spot on boner....

Murphy plays like its hot potato...just get rid of the thing to anyone, as long as i don't have to hold it!
Would love to hear once again what all the Murphy fans have to say abt his game again tonight.

I just don't think i can go to another hawthorn game with him in the side...its amazing how it ruins the enjoyment of the game so much. Same with Morton.

Pies zone killed hawthorn...can't remember seeing a side struggle that much to get it out from a behind. Chip 15 metres sideways to whitecross so he can pad his stats....then..........nothing.

And luke hodge can hold his head high...not many others can.

And i didn't think we were killed in the ruck at all, for all those people saying that was the problem. I didn't see it that way at all.

 

[randall boner]

Time to send Rough to Box Hill for a week! Remember the saints did it not so long ago with Nick Dal Santo and it worked a treat! I just cant see how a player can be so inconsistant. The bloke has soo much talent but his confidence looks shot, the team needs a wake up call and this could hopefully send a message to the rest of the group!

if roughy goes back to box hill for a week he can take morton, moss and murphy with him and leave them there....permanently.

 

[Adebisi]

oh and yes i thought hawks were killed tacticaly tonight...We had NO IDEA how to play the pies zone...absolutely none. It killed our run, and slowly our confidence. Once the players dropped there heads, it was over...

and please stop using injury as an excuse..when we get abcdefg back we will be great. It doesnt work that way for god sake...yes we will get some players back. But we will lose more as time goes on. Hawks wont ever be at full strength with the best 22 fit and playing...it just about never occurs in football. Thats why a list has alot more than 22!

Hawthorn isnt going to win the cup this year...they probably wont get close. The enjoyment for myself comes from watching rioli, hodge and a few more who clearly deserve to wear the jumper...not some of the passengers i see run out each week.

 

[Hawkamania!]

First, Hodge and Renouf were exceptional tonight. Bateman was a little off but kept putting the effort in. Mitchell also was a little off and like Bateman kept pushing himself until his injury.

Now, the main issue I found in our game was that we played to Collingwood's strength around the wings for most of the first half (and fair chunks in the second). The key to beating Collingwood is long and fast through the middle.

And finally, anyone calling for Clarkson's head should be ashamed of themselves.

 

[Jabso]

Dear me.....

Game plan won us a flag 18 months ago. Many teams use it successfully as well now. Game plan fine. Skills, another thing all together.

Arguably your gameplan was used against you to win this match.

Poor handballing isn't part of anyone's gameplan. The players just didn't spread out well and noone worked hard enough to beat the zone. Pressure became perceived pressure and compounded your errors, leaving players to go into their shells .I.e. not running forward freely, which you have to do to beat the zone.

 

[eldorado]

We just weren't interested in the physical contest today. Not a bit.

That includes running, shepherding, 1%ers, breaking lines...it was all too hard. they were prepared to do that...and we weren't.

The effects of two hard games, 6 day breaks, the law of averages on Collingwood's side, and whatever other biorhythm voodoo controls that strange 'on' switch in a team.

We were set to 'standby' all game.

Very odd and somewhat distressing.

 

[eldorado]

So missing finals 2 years running is acceptable with the list we have?

Sorry, have I missed something here?

Say, the last 18 weeks of my life?

 

[mess]

Arguably your gameplan was used against you to win this match.

Arguably inarguably.

 

[Goody1971]

We just weren't interested in the physical contest today. Not a bit.

That includes running, shepherding, 1%ers, breaking lines...it was all too hard. they were prepared to do that...and we weren't.

The effects of two hard games, 6 day breaks, the law of averages on Collingwood's side, and whatever other biorhythm voodoo controls that strange 'on' switch in a team.

We were set to 'standby' all game.

quote]

Pretty much sums it up. An off night for nearly everyone, very tired and sore bunch of players who were running on empty from the outset. No confidence, dinky little handballs and sloppy short kicks in abundance. Hodge and Renouf (hats off - 29 hitouts to Jolly/Fraser 27 combined) tried their guts out. Shiels and Sewell coming back in will give us some much needed hardness and attack on the ball carrier.

 

[SHAKESPEARE]

Pies ripped us apart with their pressing zone deep in defense. Saw Buckley at the Cats game having a laugh at us struggle to move it out, and obviously they made that a huge priority and it worked. They know our skills are abhorrent and use that to their advantage.

If I was Brad Scott, I know what i'd do.

 

[Henry Jr]

Its quite laughable all the posters crying out "why didn't Clarko play Lisle".

Its because he spent a fair chunt of time last week in the rehab group at training. Just what we need - another underdone player that can't run out the game....

Great idea

 

[millereski]

1st post here.

Many points of view, but like good yum cha the best are worth waiting for.

A few observations.

Did I see Peterson start in the square a few times last night? I reckon he's most dangerous in the forward line. It's a big ask for a rookie of his build, experience and skills to be an effective player in the centre square. Says more about the midfield we put on the park than the player.

Roughie's kicking. Surely Rough is under instruction to kick off three steps, and has been from the start of the year. It must be tough for our key forward to comply when he keeps on missing. If it's not working it's time to try something else.

Rarely does any player perform to the best of their ability in their first game back following time out from senior football:
Young showed a few signs of his old self and will improve.
Whitecross struggled but it was his first senior game for 2010 and the backline was under intense pressure all night.
Kudos to Stratton then! Still believe Whitecross has a big future at HFC.

Until we get a consistent 6 or 7 players in the backline, it's going to take more matches to become cohesive. Half the turnovers occur because players haven't developed that 6th sense of where their team mate is going to run. Inexperienced players in the back half ie. Schuey are made to look particularly bad.

Goo's attack on the ball and willingness to create play would be badly missed if he were dropped. Thought Murphy was ok, but turned it over a bit like all our backline players did.

All praise to Renouf and Hodge is well deserved, but we needed more from Osborne and Morton. Gilham is still looking tentative and hopefully will show some leadership down back. A few decisive spoils and sound kicking out of the defensive 50 would really lift the team.

I'm reserving judgement for a few more games yet.

 

[Teamwork Talks]

We didn't run,run, run,run, run.
Didn't run to get the ball, didn't run to recieve, didn't run to space, didn't run to shepherd, didn't run through the lines.

Next week it's "Run Hawks Run".

 

[Henry Jr]

Goo's attack on the ball and willingness to create play would be badly missed if he were dropped. Thought Murphy was ok, but turned it over a bit like all our backline players did.

I don't get what the issue people have with Murphy once he has the ball.

Granted he has other areas that he needs to work on.

He was 85% efficient last night (AFL average is 75%). He had 20 disposals. There was only 4 HFC players to avg better disposal efficency last night in Gilly 95%, Ladson 86%, Rioli 86% and Twister 90% (but only 10 disposals).

Its a total mis-conception about Tom and his disposal. He doesn't have the best looking kicking action but think you will find he was in the our top 5 last year for disposal effeciency.

 

[Adebisi]

I don't get what the issue people have with Murphy once he has the ball.

Granted he has other areas that he needs to work on.

He was 85% efficient last night (AFL average is 75%). He had 20 disposals. There was only 4 HFC players to avg better disposal efficency last night in Gilly 95%, Ladson 86%, Rioli 86% and Twister 90% (but only 10 disposals).

Its a total mis-conception about Tom and his disposal. He doesn't have the best looking kicking action but think you will find he was in the our top 5 last year for disposal effeciency.

I think you completely miss the point...

if murphy gets the ball in the backline panics cos he is scared of getting tackled and would rather have a teammate look bad..he handballs to someone who has a man standing right next to him...100% efficient in the stats sheet, 100% terrible disposal.

 

[Henry Jr]

I think you completely miss the point...

if murphy gets the ball in the backline panics cos he is scared of getting tackled and would rather have a teammate look bad..he handballs to someone who has a man standing right next to him...100% efficient in the stats sheet, 100% terrible disposal.

"Scared of getting tackled" and "Would rather have a teammate look bad" are two of the worst things I have read on this board in the past 24 hours.....

Tom is a team player first and has never shirked the issue when its his time to go (see last night when he ran back into a pack without a thought for his safety).

 

[Adebisi]

"Scared of getting tackled" and "Would rather have a teammate look bad" are two of the worst things I have read on this board in the past 24 hours.....

Tom is a team player first and has never shirked the issue when its his time to go (see last night when he ran back into a pack without a thought for his safety).

at least you didnt argue with my point about the efficiency...obviously my point got across

 

[Adebisi]

btw i offered a scenario for why murphy may handball to a teammate under pressure and still carry 100% efficiency, not necessarily what has actually happened in a game..though its MY OPINION that it does occur that way sometimes.

And i disagree with your comment

 

[millereski]

Murphy deserves his spot in the team, but his decision making was certainly no better than the remainder of the back line.

More than anywhere else on the ground good defensive play relies upon system, and last night the system broke down: to often I saw a flick handballs go to a team mate under pressure rather than finding a player on the burst already on the look out for a target upfield.