Autopsy Hawks vs Saints - tear it apart here

[H2F]

Clarko is a freaking genius by the way.

This season will be the strangest in our time, you mark my words. We could be 10th on the ladder tomorrow night. 10th. This season is so close and the style of footy is so fast and so tough that it's a battle of attrition.
Clarko as usual is always on the ball before anyone else and will rotate about 30 odd players as you are seeing right now. A f**king genius!

 

[Hawker55]

True. You're talking 2014 geelong finished equal points with us and sydney yet % wise were 27 and 29% less. This reflected in their finals performances
and went out in straight sets. Percentage talks.

While this is true, we do miss Rough and to a lesser extent Hill. That's probably 65 goals a season that will come back in to the team as well as releasing players into their natural positions. That Cats team was cooked in terms of core playing group rather than long term injuries. I fully expect our percentage to go up in the second half of the season when we're able to put best 22 out - the first part of the season is about grinding out wins and staying in touch of top 4.

 

[JustKickIt]

I'm not overly worried about our ability to regain quality players, confidence and be a major threat for the 2016 flag. Right now, as an Adelaide dweller, I'm concerned about Adelaide kicking our arse, which is never pretty as a Hawks fan in Adelaide.

At least they should be pretty stuffed after tonight's game.

 

[MightyHawks]

Those first 3 can at least reach 50 games by finals if they play most games. As they should if they avoid injury and suspension.

We have only 27 players who have played 10+ games
In comparison Adelaide have 33 players who have played 10+ games

Pittonet is another that needs to play a handful of games this year as he could easily be required to play a final

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

At least they should be pretty stuffed after tonight's game.

They'd be stuffed, but they looked good as well. I'd love to win this one.

 

[H2F]

By the way for all the stupid things the AFL have done these rule changes are awesome.

Awesome of course if you have a team based approach like Clarko and use all your squad not wear out the same 25 or so all year.

He saw this coming, once again I am in awe. What a coach!

 

[cryptor]

Clarko is a freaking genius by the way.

This season will be the strangest in our time, you mark my words. We could be 10th on the ladder tomorrow night. 10th. This season is so close and the style of footy is so fast and so tough that it's a battle of attrition.
Clarko as usual is always on the ball before anyone else and will rotate about 30 odd players as you are seeing right now. A f**king genius!

Pretty much the only coach in the league who can afford to take those kind of risks too. Other coaches need to ensure they do everything to try and win each and every game.

 

[DrEvil_]

Great sides find a way to win when they should for all money have lost...

That's what Richmond said after rd 1

 

[Off The Couch]

I've only seen the last quarter and I saw TOB penalised for incorrect disposal when he missed a handball and the Saints goaled. Correctly mind you. I also saw Hodge sell Duryea in to trouble and Duryea got pinged with 0 secs prior opp and then saw Poppy tackle one of them and the guys foot missed the ball by about a metre and he wasn't done for incorrect disposal. Those were the only ump deisions that stood out in the final quarter I saw and they certainly didn't go our way.

That doesn't make for good headlines though
The umpiring was terrible but that's an umpiring issue not a Hawks one as opposition supporters would like to believe

 

[Thaihawk]

We definitely need to address the centre clearance issue. We are getting belted there on a regular basis.
Dogs and Saints are both very fast up and comers, and both seemed to get away from the centre bounce easier than we did. I reckon both will win many games this year, so it was good to get the 4 points from each game.
In the past we had Rough to throw in there, and he would generally fix the problem.

Just watched Crows and Swans, and it looks like the crows could be leg weary next week, well hopefully, anyway.

 

[cuttlefish]

Have a look at the spread of goal scorers for Hawthorn. That on its own is beautiful reading. Play on, Hawks, play on !!

 

[cuttlefish]

On the flight with the boys. Sammy in business. Clarko up the back. Haha.

Yo

I won't bother reviewing the players, can't be bothered having a go because I dare to point the finger at cult heroes, instead of the standard whipping boys


I will say though, winning these close games does allow us to drop a few winnable games later on, rather than playing catch up

This squad need to stay switched on. That could be their biggest battle, when it matters. Young guys with three premierships can lose their focus. They're good enough, but it's almost like the hardest season in front of them this season, over all of the others.
Getting back to the players, Langers, and Ceglar need to step up to leadership level and stay there

 

[Gralin]

These 7 players have played less than 50 games and got one extra game experience
Langford 37
Ceglar 34
Hartung 31
Litherland 23
Sicily 7
TOB 6
Howe 5

We need to get some games into these kids as we don't even have 22 players on the list who've played 50 games

Also Hartung was sub for 16 of his 31 games so he's played less full games than Gus who has been sub 3 times
When a third of the team us that inexperienced it's good to grind out a close win

 

[savagelunchbox]

Just had a peak at the umpires thread on the MB. It seems the contentious one was the "not 15m" call. Not surprises there, but it's interesting how selective memory effects one's posting.

In the 2nd quarter, I think (may have been the 4th, but if was def. to the left of screen), the saint's got paid a mark that went <10m to Sam Gilbert who got a shot at goal from it.

Not long after the contentious call, a Saints player, near the boundary line deep in their D50 chip kicked the ball to a player who got paid the mark. The kick went all of about 10m too and yet it was paid a mark. Had it been not paid a mark, the Saints player was FUBAR.

Got to love the Saints supporters though. I think Plugger35 has been using the Hitler principle, "Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe you."

THE UMPIRES HATE US, THE UMPIRES HATE US. What about that free that didn't get paid that disadvantaged us? I can't remember that free that didn't get paid that advantaged us. I've conveniently forgotten that one.

 

[Jombatron]

After tonights game I feel for you guys. You have to put up with everyone saying the umpires favour you, week in week out. Lol I'm sick of it already and it's only been one match

 

[cryptor]

The thing about close games with terrible umpiring like this is that the supporters of the team that won aren't liable to make anywhere near as big a deal out of the ones that went against them compared to the opposition supporters who having lost the game are going to have a huge whinge.

Same thing has happened before particularly in the 2012 and 2014 PFs. Both teams supporters to this day will argue black and blue that they were robbed by umpiring. There were plenty of dodgy decisions in these games against us but given we won those games none of us are going to obsess over them. Had we lost then we likely would have.

 

[Jombatron]

The thing about close games with terrible umpiring like this is that the supporters of the team that won aren't liable to make anywhere near as big a deal out of the ones that went against them compared to the opposition supporters who having lost the game are going to have a huge whinge.

Same thing has happened before particularly in the 2012 and 2014 PFs. Both teams supporters to this day will argue black and blue that they were robbed by umpiring. There were plenty of dodgy decisions in these games against us but given we won those games none of us are going to obsess over them. Had we lost then we likely would have.

That 2012 pre lim was ridiculous. Umpiring looked stock standard, came on bigfooty and everyone was losing their minds. Few dodgy calls both ways but that's sport. I get so sick of people only remembering the dodgy calls that affect their team. Remember feeling like we didn't even deserve to be in the grand final with the amount of chances hawks wasted that night

 

[cryptor]

That 2012 pre lim was ridiculous. Umpiring looked stock standard, came on bigfooty and everyone was losing their minds. Few dodgy calls both ways but that's sport. I get so sick of people only remembering the dodgy calls that affect their team. Remember feeling like we didn't even deserve to be in the grand final with the amount of chances hawks wasted that night

Thought "oh here we go" when I saw a Crow had quoted that post. Pleasantly surprised haha

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

I was slightly annoyed by Eddie McGuire tonight doing a run down of the round at half time of the Adelaide v Sydney match. He touched on Hawthorn's win, then followed up by saying "A controversial win after a number of free kicks against St.Kilda".

Now, really, if anyone shouldn't comment about this it's the President of another football club. No way would the comment have been the same had it been Collingwood.

I've come to the conclusion that commentators, whether they be former greats of the game or whatever, are no better than many of the idiots who proliferate this forum, with their inability to see both sides and offer even commentary. They pick a favourite, in this case St.Kilda, and barrack for them throughout their call.

It not only presents a distorted call of the match, but exacerbates this garbage that umpires are out there trying to help one team win. Many years ago in the SANFL, I actually saw a game where the umpire cheated. He admitted to it after the game and was suspended. Believe me, until you've actually seen a game where an umpire did in fact cause a team to lose, you've no idea what it looks like.

These guys are trying to make the Grand Final where they will receive a pretty hefty pay check for one day's work. No way would they jeopardise this opportunity trying to get a certain team up in a minor round game.

 

[Gene Simmons]

Can't wait to see us back on our home deck next Friday night, Crows are playing some good footy but I expect to see us show a similar intensity that we showed v Eagles in R2, today could have been mistaken for a NAB Challenge game apart from the last few minutes of the match.

 

[tommyk72]

I reckon clarko will have learned a lot from that game about out future. He pretty much played with the players all day.

Gunston spent more time down back than forwards, our forward line generally was very small and/or young (Sicily, O'b, Cyril, Breust, Pop), and he didn't move Burgoyne into the middle too often when we needed clearances. I think today was more about trying a few things. We are very lucky we got over the line, especially with a couple of lucky calls from the umps.

But now, we bank it, move on, focus on adelaide, and hopefully get another 4 points next Friday.

 

[swampy]

Saw something I'd never seen before in today's game.. Birchall kicking on his right foot!

In the last Q, and it hit a target!

 

[H2F]

Saw something I'd never seen before in today's game.. Birchall kicking on his right foot!

In the last Q, and it hit a target!

It was like a GOATSE

 

[WillowSF]

Saints got robbed. We need a high quality young mid field player in next year's draft. Between the half way mark of the 3rd quarter and the opening 5 minutes of the last, 80% of the team were simply not keyed in. On the plus side it's good to get games into the young guys.

 

[flinchfree]

Another York Park masterpiece.

Played like a side who was really feeling it from the week before after playing on a cement surface.

Their midfield killed Hawthorn's and that wasn't helped by McEvoy's woeful ruck work. Taps it to the opposition more than he does a teammate. Whenever the Saints were looking dangerous, McEvoy was the designated ruck. Whenever Hawthorn looked in control, or at worst, breaking even, Ceglar was rucking. It's not who the mids were at the time as Mitchell spent most of the game in the centre, Shiels was in there Lewis was in there, Rioli was in there, and all the other experienced mids were in there. At least 2 of them contested the center bounces so using the "There were youth in the center when McEvoy was rucking" doesn't suffice.
The same thing has happened every game this year, whenever the opposition midfield look to be dominating, McEvoy has been the ruck. It's a good thing he offers stuff around the ground, has a tank, and has the ability to contest in the fwd line because he's a liability in the center.

The inside mids really struggled today and looked more tired than the other. Langford had a barry and Shiels looked to be really feeling the effects of a tough first up run.

With the midfield getting killed, the backline was under immense pressure. Who in their right mind would think that going in with 1 KPD would be a good idea against a side that were going in with 3 KPF's? Litherland didn't have a matchup. Stratton didn't have a matchup. Hodge was having to play as a KPD. Birchall was having to stand and take some hits to help out the undersized defenders. It was a bonehead idea from the match committee and that same bonehead idea was what they tried against Geelong, which backfired and then some.
"Those who cannot remember the past are doomed to repeat it." The Crows will slaughter Hawthorn if they try this undersized approach. Hypothetically Stratton will be manning Betts, so Gibbo will go to Lynch and Frawley to Jenkins. Who will be on Walker? Litherland?

TOB was encouraging. I liked his game. Kept repeat leading and provided a target all day until he was moved back.

Ceglar was really good. His interrupted preseason is showing in the second halves though.

Birchall was good today and big when it counted.

Few positives from this game, but there rarely is in Tassie. Bank the points, rethink the team selections and move on to the MCG.

Saw an entirely different game to you.

McEvoy was decent in the Ruck halving most contests (his usual best case result), and 95% of taps were even money balls - not to either teams advantage. What St Kilda had were midfielders who timed a run and hit the fall of the ball. They smashed in, won first control, wrestled their hands free as we wrapped them up in tackles, and at the last second released the ball to a team mate. That team mate then flashed the ball on, often backwards, to a team mate standing unopposed, and away they went. And when the ball hit the deck from a tap bouncing free, their mids showed superior dash to break away and get possession.
Sam was our only mid who chanced his arm, pushed off his direct opponent a split second before the Rucks contacted the ball, and found his way to the ball. He's a frickin champion.
Shiels doesn't do it.
Langers plays much too defensively and tries to hold off an opponent instead of backing his reading of the tap.
And who else is there? Hodge and Burgs when they go in?

We've needed to find mids who can win contested ball at the center bounce for 2 years. We need them now.

You won't see McEvoy guide it down our mids throats, he doesn't have that ability. He also won't lose too many ruck duels completely. He is what he is as a Ruck, but gave us plenty around the ground yesterday.

Also while were disagreeing, thought Birch had a rough day at the office.