Hawks want a ruckman for Chick or NO DEAL!

[Dave]

Originally posted by Danny Chook Fan Club
Jarman was near enough to the best player in the league in 1995/6.

As good as Carey, Hird & Voss?

Barnard was around the best 22.

Played 11 games in two seasons. I've since heard he and judge didn't get along when he played in Perth and Barnard suspected he'd struggle for a game.

At the time, we received a draft pick and a 30 year old, broken down hack full forward.

Is that adequate compensation? [/QUOTE]

Given their performances, yes.

 

[Danny Chook Fan Club]

Originally posted by Dave
As good as Carey, Hird & Voss?

The third was just starting out. Close to the first, at least on a par with the second (and in my view, clearly better).

Given their performances, yes.

Their performances, good as they were, do not stack up to what we lost. Therefore, negative trade.

 

[Captain Random]

Originally posted by Pessimistic
I tell you what is annoying. You guys think you are doing the actual negotiations. One even started using card playing analagies.

You all pretend you don't rate Chick when you really do, and are looking forward to rubbing our noses in it next year.

Meanwhile the guy is probably going throught the worst time of his life, and it's just a big game to some.

Maybe perhaps the Hawks are trying to settle this sooner rather than later (draft week) so the guy can get on with his life.

There you go, doing it again. Who is going to rub whose noses in it? Stop misrepresenting the Eagles supporters.

If your club is so damned noble, tell them to stop making demands that aren't going to be met. Gardiner for Chick? Crikey.

 

[Danny Chook Fan Club]

What exactly has Gardiner done/achieved in his career?

 

[Goldenblue]

Originally posted by Danny Chook Fan Club
What exactly has Gardiner done/achieved in his career?

One of the best ruckmen in the league still yet to reach full potential, can turn a game of his own boot. Fills in holes in the backline or run forward to take a few grabs at CHF. Wonderful tap sense to his best friend Cousins and one of those players who can turn a game of his own boot.

Need I say more?

 

[Danny Chook Fan Club]

Originally posted by Goldenblue
One of the best ruckmen in the league

This I read quite often. He's not on the same page as Luke Darcy, Matthew Primus, Jeff White or Steven King. He was out-polled by Troy Simmonds in the Brownlow. He's yet to manage more than 20 games in a single year (only one season has he managed more than 75% of the games). In six years he's yet to manage a top three finish in West Coast's best and fairest (and considering the years of Cousins, Jakovich, Kerr and Fletcher, unlikely to do so this year either).

I did ask what has he done, not what can he do, so ...

Need I say more?

Do go on.

 

[Pessimistic]

Originally posted by Goldenblue


Wonderful tap sense to his best friend Cousins and one of those players who can turn a game of his own boot.

Ah, I take it they haven't "Punched on" with each other yet then.

 

[Goldenblue]

Originally posted by Danny Chook Fan Club
This I read quite often. He's not on the same page as Luke Darcy, Matthew Primus, Jeff White or Steven King. He was out-polled by Troy Simmonds in the Brownlow. He's yet to manage more than 20 games in a single year (only one season has he managed more than 75% of the games). In six years he's yet to manage a top three finish in West Coast's best and fairest (and considering the years of Cousins, Jakovich, Kerr and Fletcher, unlikely to do so this year either).

I did ask what has he done, not what can he do, so ...

I admit hamstrings have been a problem for him especially this year. As for the ruckmen quoted above, I would put him behind Darcy, Primus and King, but above White.

His work around the ground compensates for what he does lack. He is quicker than most Ruckmen in the league, is strong, takes a good grab, can run like a panther, but his kicking needs a lot more work. He is younger than some of the players you have mentioned and I expect him to improve more.

No one will finish in a top 3 F&B if they have a injured year, unless he is a Hird or a Voss.

Mayhaps you need to pull out some videos of WC and see the way he does play. It's a pity that WC dont get much coverage in the East as there are some striking players in our side, but are undervalued in the east.

I think WC have a great eye with developing players. Not many supporters thought Cox was worth holding onto and thought he would make trade bait, but his worth shown in Gardy's absence makes us understand his value to the club.

 

[Mocca]

I've got no dramas with Cox - I'd prefer him to Gardiner personally.

 

[sabre_ac]

Originally posted by Danny Chook Fan Club
. He was out-polled by Troy Simmonds in the Brownlow.

Once again lack of exposure over there has ment you have underestimated Simmonds season.
I have said all along he was the 5th best ruckman on 2002 form

 

[Goldenblue]

Originally posted by Mocca
I've got no dramas with Cox - I'd prefer him to Gardiner personally.

True, but a required player.

If Gardy broke down, we have no back up.
Hence: Not for sale.

 

[Captain Random]

Originally posted by Danny Chook Fan Club
What exactly has Gardiner done/achieved in his career?

Look at it this way - Gardiner is a ruckman taken a few years ago at no.1. He is maturing, which always takes a while in a ruckman, so on games played you need to compare apples with apples. He is starting to show his potential in a big way, and was outstanding in a couple of games this season.

He will be our no.1 ruckman for some time - rumours aside - and when he is firing with Cousins (save the cheap shot Pess) he is unstoppable.

So what's he done? Enough to justify his position on the "untradeable" list.

 

[carlyp]

Gardi isnt going to leave. Neither are any of the other big name guys that are having their name thrown around. The Eagles probably have the best recruitment/coaching etc etc staff in the league. They are shrewd enough to know when to make a deal and when not to make a deal!

 

[Mocca]

Originally posted by sabre_ac
Once again lack of exposure over there has ment you have underestimated Simmonds season.
I have said all along he was the 5th best ruckman on 2002 form

The man who takes paranoia to new and exciting heights enters the fray.

Who pulled your chain Tinkerbell? Where have I 'underrated' Simmons? All I've done is state a statistical fact.

 

[sabre_ac]

Originally posted by Mocca
The man who takes paranoia to new and exciting heights enters the fray.

Who pulled your chain Tinkerbell? Where have I 'underrated' Simmons? All I've done is state a statistical fact.

In your comments under DCFC you seemed to be surprised that Simmonds posted more votes.

 

[Mr Q]

Originally posted by Pessimistic
I tell you what is annoying. You guys think you are doing the actual negotiations. One even started using card playing analagies.

You all pretend you don't rate Chick when you really do, and are looking forward to rubbing our noses in it next year.

I'll tell you what I find annoying - continuous allegations that the Eagles are going to trade Gardiner. And that he's not worth much.

I rate Chick, but I don't rate him as being as useful to the Eagles as Gardiner already is. Nor do pretty much any of the other Eagles fans here, and apparently neither do the club. I don't particularly want to rub your nose in anything. Just because you're still annoyed with the Dockers doesn't mean you have to get stuck into Eagles supporters.

Originally posted by Pessimistic
Meanwhile the guy is probably going throught the worst time of his life, and it's just a big game to some.

Maybe perhaps the Hawks are trying to settle this sooner rather than later (draft week) so the guy can get on with his life.

Just because everyone's feeling sorry for Chick doesn't mean that the Eagles should immediately trade one of their stars for a player they don't need. Remember the Eagles tried to trade for Chick last time he was out of contract and wanted to return to Perth, then he changed his mind and decided to stay at Hawthorn. Hawthorn have just as much power to push this through - stop asking for what the Eagles have said they can't have.

 

[Pessimistic]

Originally posted by Mr Q




Just because everyone's feeling sorry for Chick doesn't mean that the Eagles should immediately trade one of their stars for a player they don't need. Remember the Eagles tried to trade for Chick last time he was out of contract and wanted to return to Perth, then he changed his mind and decided to stay at Hawthorn. Hawthorn have just as much power to push this through - stop asking for what the Eagles have said they can't have.

Everyone can feel sorry but the Hawks are the ones who have to kop it ?

OK we'll swap him for your last pick that you don't want anyway.

 

[carlyp]

Originally posted by Pessimistic


Everyone can feel sorry but the Hawks are the ones who have to kop it ?

OK we'll swap him for your last pick that you don't want anyway.

Listen Pesimistic, IF we decide to take chick you will get what he is worth. He is not worth a Gardiner or a Cox or a Wirrupunda. At best he is worth an Embley/williams and mid draft pick! Now if you hawks dont want that then you will get nothing. Chick is coming home to the Eagles and you will have to take what we offer.

 

[Chris_23]

Originally posted by carlyp


At best he is worth an Embley/williams and mid draft pick!

Classic stuff that! A best and fairest winner for a choice of two hacks and a ****ty draft pick in a ****ty draft.

WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR HAWTHORN? GET ON THE PHONE BEFORE THEY CHANGE THEIR MIND!

 

[Mr Q]

Originally posted by Pessimistic


Everyone can feel sorry but the Hawks are the ones who have to kop it ?

Unfortunately for Hawthorn thats the way it works. It appears here though that Hawks fans want the Eagles to cop it because we're from WA.

 

[carlyp]

Originally posted by Chris_23




Classic stuff that! A best and fairest winner for a choice of two hacks and a ****ty draft pick in a ****ty draft.

WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR HAWTHORN? GET ON THE PHONE BEFORE THEY CHANGE THEIR MIND!

He was those things, but he is not that anymore. He isnt the player he was. As soon as you Hawks fans realize that you will realize that your not getting a big name for him. If I were you I would take what you can get or you'll get nothing.
I agree Mr Q- we will decide the terms of any chick deal, not the Hawks!

 

[Mocca]

Originally posted by Chris_23




Classic stuff that! A best and fairest winner for a choice of two hacks and a ****ty draft pick in a ****ty draft.

WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR HAWTHORN? GET ON THE PHONE BEFORE THEY CHANGE THEIR MIND!

Call now and get a free Jeremy Humm! Have your credit card ready!

The most annoying thing about changing usernames is putting the idiots back on ignore.

 

[carlyp]

Originally posted by Mocca
Call now and get a free Jeremy Humm! Have your credit card ready!

The most annoying thing about changing usernames is putting the idiots back on ignore.

GET STUFFED!

 

[X_box_X]

Luke Penny for Ben Dixon?
Hawthorn could use Penny for a ruckmen and a backmen. Dixon will be another forward target for the Doggies to help Bandy out. Bandy, Dixon, Brown, Johnson, Giansiracusa and McGuiness in the Forward line ... Mmm, I like it

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

Originally posted by Chris_23


Classic stuff that! A best and fairest winner for a choice of two hacks and a ****ty draft pick in a ****ty draft.

WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR HAWTHORN? GET ON THE PHONE BEFORE THEY CHANGE THEIR MIND!

You have to understand though that Chick wants to go home. Whether he gets traded to WA or not, one things is for sure, he won't be with the hawks next year.

Hawthorn can either:
1) Accept what WC/Freo offer, whether they want to or not
2) Make a stand that they won't be pushed around and force Chick into the draft
3) Come up with a 3-way (or more) swap where they get their ruckman, we WC/Freo get Chick and someone else gets something WC are willing to trade

Either way, WC has stated that they won't be trading their ruckmen away. That means Hawks won't get their ruckman unless a compromise deal is reached.