Opinion Hawthorn - Clarkson - Fagan Racism Investigation

[Mutineer]

"Henny Penny"?

Are we back in kindergarten now?

You obviously haven't followed Jenny's posting on this board too closely...

 

[Ramify]

Might be the only way to clear their names .....that said, IIUC, these were a combination of private conversations, and in the accused families homes ......I'd suggest there are more supporting witnesses for the accused than Clarko & Fagan

Then, the ace in the hole, are the emails to Andrew Newbold .....why would they be sent by one of the accusers? .....nothing to gain, as the emails pre-dated the HAW report

Never underestimate a cross examination conducted by well payed Silk.

 

[1970crow]

Funny how you've sided with the old white guys and automatically assumed the indigenous folk are lying. Disappointing really.

I think Sam Mitchell is lying too.

 

[1970crow]

This is "we are the next Italy" all over again.

“It takes a decade to develop a safe and effective vaccine”. Nek minnut, mandates are brilliant and eff anyone who chooses not to be vaxxed.

 

[Ramify]

I'm sorry - "the truth being somewhere in the middle" is a cop out. If there is ANY truth to this, it's appalling. My mind is only made up in so far as agreeing with the complainants being justified in not wanting to be a part of an AFL manufactured s**t show.

Perspective,Context and Bias are real things.

"Any truth" is a very nebulous standard for reaching the burden of proof.

You've obviously never tried to weezel your way out of trouble by shifting perspective? Half your luck.

I'm sure I could quite easily take the plaintiff's statements, rearrange a few words, embelish/emphasise a quote or two and alter the tone enough so as to present a completely different context.Paint the whole scenario in many different lights. That's all without even considering,or including anything from the defendants version of events.
The same can quite easily occur the other way, be it intentional or not.

This is my main gripe with the Journos report. Read those two versions of the same statement and then tell me I'm an idiot for not believing they were both penned verbatim from the same interviewees...

 

[Ramify]

Funny how you've sided with the old white guys and automatically assumed the indigenous folk are lying. Disappointing really.

No funnier than you siding with the downtrodden Black kids without ever hearing the other side to the story.

In fact your side is funnier and kinda racist.

 

[Sanders]

I think we can all agree that:
1. The investigation is being set up by the AFL with pretty tight deadlines, which serves the AFL’s interests

The timing is pretty generous to me. They could knock this out in 2 weeks.

You’ve half a dozen people making specific allegations about certain events and situations. With the resources being thrown at it, the time allowed is more than ample

2. The people complaining have good reason to have doubts about the AFLs willingness to have an outcome which requires severe consequences for Clarkson or Fagan

The people complaining don’t want to put themselves through the scrutiny involved. Which makes their objective of a payoff virtually impossible now

3. It’s a bit rough to have Clarkson or Fagan face severe consequences unless they get a proper chance to be heard, and to do that they need details of the allegations including names etc.

Regardless of what turns out to be true, this is a pretty shitty state of affairs. Everyone has a right under our justice system to know who accuses them and the details of that allegation

There is no wiggle room here. Heck “Amy” is making allegations on behalf of someone else, who appears not to be making the same claims

 

[Sanders]

How convenient that the AFL have manufactured this outcome. They've made it impossible for the accusers to feel like a) their story will be heard fairly and adequately dealt with because b) of the gag order insisted on by the AFL.

For those tripping over themselves to declare the complainants "must have been making it up" if they aren't prepared to fall into line with the AFL s**t show, you've clearly never known or been a victim of this type of abhorent behaviour. Congratulations for winning at the life lottery.

Personally, if I were the victims, I'd take it to the civil courts. They are clearly never going to get what they need from the AFL farce.

Yeah, the world is full of people talking about what they would have done.

 

[Sanders]

You have to remember, the original survey by HAW, was simply that a survey of past players ....not just indigenous players

Utterly wrong. It was solely for past indigenous players.

Are you trolling?

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Utterly wrong. It was solely for past indigenous players.

Are you trolling?

I stand corrected

 

[Sanders]

I'm sure you said something here .....I can tell, there were a lot of words used

The picture book will be out next week, it comes with crayons and everything

 

[Sanders]

I stand corrected

Not cool.

You completely made something up out of thin air.

Hardly an honest mistake. C’mon it’s not too much to ask

 

[WaynesWorld19]

The picture book will be out next week, it comes with crayons and everything

I'll eagerly await

 

[Sanders]

Then, the ace in the hole, are the emails to Andrew Newbold .....why would they be sent by one of the accusers? .....nothing to gain, as the emails pre-dated the HAW report

Newbold comes out badly. The way he treated “Amy” was really shitty.

But it doesn’t tell us much about what he was told by Burt etc and why he was persuaded to disengage.

I think his time as a commissioner is probably done, and rightly so

 

[Sanders]

Funny how you've sided with the old white guys and automatically assumed the indigenous folk are lying. Disappointing really.

Funny how you’ve already taken a side and don’t try to hide it

 

[Sanders]

This Michael Bradley.....

Michael Bradley

Michael Bradley is a freelance writer and managing partner at Sydney firm Marque Lawyers, which was created in 2008 with the singular ambition of completely changing the way law is practised.

www.crikey.com.au

He’s still happy to present his bill to the AFL.

Make no mistake the AFL is paying for all these lawyers.

 

[tinman]

This right here keeps being forgotten. The AFL is not a court of law. I don’t even know what they are in this case as the complainant isn’t a former employee or anyone else to do with the AFL.

But take the view it’s an ex employee, or ex customer, or ex whatever.

Any other business would hear the complaint and do their own review. Which is what is going on here.

Yeah, but how many complainants have to sign a confidentiality clause to participate in the review? If you are the victim of any crime, do the police make you sign a confidentiality agreement before they investigate?

The AFL will always, first and foremost, protect the brand. If they whitewash the investigation and come up with no real findings, where can the complainants go? Having signed a confidentiality clause? If they get an outcome which is totally unfair? They can’t tell their story?

There‘s a reason why these allegations have taken years to surface, and that’s likely to be because the complainants had no power, and nobody that they trusted they go to. The AFL, Fagan and Clarkson hold all the power and will want to move on from this asap. I’m not sure if I was a complainant I’d be trusting the AFL here, and the main hurdle for me would be the confidentiality clause. The AFL is a multi-million dollar business who will, first and foremost, look after their own interests. You’re asking for a lot of trust…

 

[Slippery Pete]

"Henny Penny"?

Are we back in kindergarten now?

If we were in kindergarten I’d be calling her Jenny Jenny Dingleberry

 

[Slippery Pete]

Newbold comes out badly. The way he treated “Amy” was really shitty.

But it doesn’t tell us much about what he was told by Burt etc and why he was persuaded to disengage.

I think his time as a commissioner is probably done, and rightly so

To be fair in my experience Amys are nothing but trouble

 

[John Who]

How so?

AFL releases terms of reference for Hawks probe, reveals end date

“THE AFL has set December 22, 2022 as the end-date to its investigation into allegations of racism, bullying and other inappropriate behaviour at Hawthorn Football Club from 2008-16.”

When you’re genuinely doing an investigation, you’d hope to rectify things in a timely manner. However, when it comes to emotional abuse in the workforce, there are no guarantees to when things can be actually settled. Particularly when it’s a “he said, she said” scenario. You’d often need time to discuss with the lawyers from either party, lawyers need time to sort out their path of negotiation, lawyers discussing with lawyers. Still no agreement to settle? Rinse and repeat.

Not hard to envisage things can potentially drag out for months. When the AFL sets out a narrow time frame to settle, a lot of things can be missed and the conclusion can more likely be erroneous.

Then you potentially can have the claimants having flare-ups of their alleged traumas and anxieties, and they may need some time off from the investigation. Thus potentially dragging the investigation further.

 

[John Who]

If we were in kindergarten I’d be calling her Jenny Jenny Dingleberry

Slippery Pete and Sanders sitting in a tree. K..I.........I...N...G

 

[Ramify]

Slippery Pete and Sanders sitting in a tree. K..I.........I...N...G

KILLING?

 

[John Who]

KILLING?

You win the hang man game! Kindergarten is fun. I miss it.

 

[Slippery Pete]

You win the hang man game! Kindergarten is fun. I miss it.

Would’ve been a bit hard for you at roll call though?

”Who is that boy in the corner?”

”Yes.”

”Who?”

”That’s my name.”

”WHAT is your name?”

”Who!”

 

[CrowsB4hoes]

You obviously haven't followed Jenny's posting on this board too closely...

Mistakenly thinking you were calling her MoneyPenny and you were admitting some underlying sexual tension between you two …