Opinion Hawthorn - Clarkson - Fagan Racism Investigation

[Sanders]

You win the hang man game! Kindergarten is fun. I miss it.

Well, you shouldn’t have gotten yourself on that register

 

[CrowsB4hoes]

AFL releases terms of reference for Hawks probe, reveals end date

“THE AFL has set December 22, 2022 as the end-date to its investigation into allegations of racism, bullying and other inappropriate behaviour at Hawthorn Football Club from 2008-16.”

When you’re genuinely doing an investigation, you’d hope to rectify things in a timely manner. However, when it comes to emotional abuse in the workforce, there are no guarantees to when things can be actually settled. Particularly when it’s a “he said, she said” scenario. You’d often need time to discuss with the lawyers from either party, lawyers need time to sort out their path of negotiation, lawyers discussing with lawyers. Still no agreement to settle? Rinse and repeat.

Not hard to envisage things can potentially drag out for months. When the AFL sets out a narrow time frame to settle, a lot of things can be missed and the conclusion can more likely be erroneous.

Then you potentially can have the claimants having flare-ups of their alleged traumas and anxieties, and they may need some time off from the investigation. Thus potentially dragging the investigation further.

The investigation is to determine fact and punishment. Not to resolve the complainants trauma.

 

[CrowsB4hoes]

Yeah, but how many complainants have to sign a confidentiality clause to participate in the review? If you are the victim of any crime, do the police make you sign a confidentiality agreement before they investigate?

The AFL will always, first and foremost, protect the brand. If they whitewash the investigation and come up with no real findings, where can the complainants go? Having signed a confidentiality clause? If they get an outcome which is totally unfair? They can’t tell their story?

There‘s a reason why these allegations have taken years to surface, and that’s likely to be because the complainants had no power, and nobody that they trusted they go to. The AFL, Fagan and Clarkson hold all the power and will want to move on from this asap. I’m not sure if I was a complainant I’d be trusting the AFL here, and the main hurdle for me would be the confidentiality clause. The AFL is a multi-million dollar business who will, first and foremost, look after their own interests. You’re asking for a lot of trust…

The AFL aren’t the law. They can’t “confidentiality clause” themselves or any other party out of criminal or civil claims

 

[Sanders]

The investigation is to determine fact and punishment. Not to resolve the complainants trauma.

In fact, in matters of workplace grievance there is an obligation to investigation as quickly as possible

 

[John Who]

The investigation is to determine fact and punishment. Not to resolve the complainants trauma.

Again, “he said, she said” scenarios aren’t easy to determine facts in a hurry.

 

[Sanders]

Again, “he said, she said” scenarios aren’t easy to determine facts in a hurry.

They are the easiest, because you dead end then quickly

BTW how many feet is it between you and a kindergarten, 200, 500?

 

[John Who]

The AFL aren’t the law. They can’t “confidentiality clause” themselves or any other party out of criminal or civil claims

Sorry quoting you again, I’ve seen Workcover cases involving emotional harassments/bullying that can take 1-2 years.

 

[Slippery Pete]

Again, “he said, she said” scenarios aren’t easy to determine facts in a hurry.

What about Who said, she said?

 

[CrowsB4hoes]

Again, “he said, she said” scenarios aren’t easy to determine facts in a hurry.

There’s plenty of time

 

[John Who]

They are the easiest, because you dead end then quickly

BTW how many feet is it between you and kindergarten, 200, 500?

If you don’t know shit, stop pretending that you do. Workcover cases for emotional bullying can take yonks.

 

[CrowsB4hoes]

Sorry quoting you again, I’ve seen Workcover cases involving emotional harassments/bullying that can take 1-2 years.

I’ve seen murder investigations take decades.

This isn’t that either.

 

[CrowsB4hoes]

What about Who said, she said?

What about who’s on first, what’s on second?

 

[John Who]

There’s plenty of time

Let me put it simply to you, how do you know for a fact 7-8 weeks is enough time to figure it all out in this particular scenario?

 

[Sanders]

Let me put it simply to you, how do you know for a fact 7-8 weeks is enough time to figure it all out in this particular scenario?

Because actual lawyers, experts and professionals have signed off on it.

Not fake health care workers

 

[CrowsB4hoes]

Let me put it simply to you, how do you know for a fact 7-8 weeks is enough time to figure it all out in this particular scenario?

Because it’s reasonable. I am sure if after 6 weeks they have uncovered some new information requiring further investigation, they will extend it.

But from the outset for the benefit of everyone, you need to put a timeline on it and in all grievance policies I’ve seen and been a part of, 7-8 weeks is at the high end.

 

[Sanders]

If you don’t know s**t, stop pretending that you do. Workcover cases for emotional bullying can take yonks.

Matey, mate, maaatte, perhaps someone who’s never been in charge of a workforce greater than 1 ought to pipe down a little?

 

[Redline]

I still think the AFL review will be a whole lot of nothing released right on Christmas.

It will state it couldn't determine if certain events took place but acknowledges the industry needs to do more.

Two of the ecommendations will be
A whole lot of investment into supporting indigenous players.

Some guidelines around who needs to be present for certain meetings.

 

[John Who]

Matey, mate, maaatte, perhaps someone who’s never been in charge of a workforce greater than 1 ought to pipe down a little?

I’m the one laughing at you when you said Workcover cases for emotional bullying usually gets done quick. This can easily be answered by anyone if they ask their own GP (if their GP does Workcover).

 

[John Who]

Because it’s reasonable. I am sure if after 6 weeks they have uncovered some new information requiring further investigation, they will extend it.

But from the outset for the benefit of everyone, you need to put a timeline on it and in all grievance policies I’ve seen and been a part of, 7-8 weeks is at the high end.

If they plan to extend things in light of new evidence, why the **** should they set a timeline in the first place? Don’t you think it seems amateurish with their public announcement of a timeline before Christmas?

 

[CrowsB4hoes]

I’m the one laughing at you when you said Workcover cases for emotional bullying usually gets done quick. This can easily be answered by anyone if they ask their own GP (if their GP does Workcover).

This isn’t a work over case

 

[CrowsB4hoes]

If they plan to extend things in light of new evidence, why the * should they set a timeline in the first place? Don’t you think it seems amateurish with their public announcement of a timeline before Christmas?

Because it is good policy

Even if just for those appointed to oversee the review. You can’t leave them hanging on. They’ll have other commitments and would have only agreed if not expected to take any longer than Christmas.

 

[John Who]

This isn’t a work over case

It is kinda as in harassments in the realm of the workplace. But the point still stand, work harassments cases aren’t always easy to know the entire truth. Perceptions and deceptions can make things more complicated and can drag on. You nor I nor anyone can know how long it should really take in this particular case.

Think back to WorkSafe SA investigation on the Crows camp, how long did that drag on for? And the investigation was for a simple 3 day event!!

 

[Sanders]

I still think the AFL review will be a whole lot of nothing released right on Christmas.

It will state it couldn't determine if certain events took place but acknowledges the industry needs to do more.

Two of the ecommendations will be
A whole lot of investment into supporting indigenous players.

Some guidelines around who needs to be present for certain meetings.

That’s exactly what it will say. No evidence will exist, but fluffy platitudes will be thrown around and AFL will breathe out in relief

 

[CrowsB4hoes]

It is kinda as in harassments in the realm of the workplace. But the point still stand, work harassments cases aren’t always easy to know the entire truth. Perceptions and deceptions can make things more complicated and can drag on. You nor I nor anyone can know how long it should really take in this particular case.

Think back to WorkSafe SA investigation on the Crows camp, how long did that drag on for? And the investigation was for a simple 3 day event!!

Work over and work safe SA are bound by legislation and accountable to the government and the public. The AFL doesn’t have the same requirements in the slightest.

 

[Sanders]

I’m the one laughing at you when you said Workcover cases for emotional bullying usually gets done quick. This can easily be answered by anyone if they ask their own GP (if their GP does Workcover).

reading is hard isn’t it John? All those words, in difficult to understand sequences