Play Nice Hawthorn culture and Fagan

[dlanod]

This is going to be a very touchy subject.

There will be a very broad range of opinions about the correct way to handle this.

I'll remind everyone to post respectfully at this time - sniping at each other is not going to help.

Any continued pointless back and forth will get a day or more to cool off. If you want to avoid this fate, let it go.

 

[On the quiet]

ABC mate...ABC. Ignorance is in the eye of the beholder. I'm tired of these pen pushers having all the power but telling us crap.

I am not a fan of the ABC, I was a regular viewer of the 7.30 Report and Q&A but they have become too left leaning. That said, considering Defamation laws and the impact to harm and reputations and potential loss of income to the two coaches you would think the journalist and editor are confident in what they have published.
Again until there is a fully independent review and due process for those named, I want to believe that Fages was not involved and afford him the presumption of innocence.

 

[briztoon]

I think he is talking regarding agendas. ABC is as left leaning as Sky is right.

Jackson is no different to any other journo. I don't get why you want to defend any of them regardless of him being at ABC or XWZ. They all want to be relevant and make theirselves famous regardless of what damage they do to anyone else or their families.

Then why does Mighty Lions keep going on about all journalists wanting to be famous?

Mighty Lions has mentioned that repeatedly, as part of his criticism of all journalists.

There are mane journalists who have no desire to be famous. They are just chasing their passion.

The way Mighty Lions posts, we would be better off having no news, and no nasty/horrible/dirty stories brought to light.

That would be a truly terrifying world, as all the psychopaths who seek power, would rule the world. At every level, of everything.

 

[Lions time]

Yikes, that style of Rhetoric is not a good look to be honest...

Any one who refers to themselves as a ‘White Person” has already fallen for the divide and conquer programming. There will be a big swing back the opposite way, and it is all by design.


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[Nunez]

Then why does Mighty Lions keep going on about all journalists wanting to be famous?

Mighty Lions has mentioned that repeatedly, as part of his criticism of all journalists.

There are mane journalists who have no desire to be famous. They are just chasing their passion.

The way Mighty Lions posts, we would be better off having no news, and no nasty/horrible/dirty stories brought to light.

That would be a truly terrifying world, as all the psychopaths who seek power, would rule the world. At every level, of everything.

Why does briztoon tag someone three times in one post?

 

[Saucery]

Sorry for the personal comments sausages, over stayed my welcome.

 

[Section 5]

Why does briztoon tag someone three times in one post?

After being on BF for 4 years i now know what a "tag" is
Now i know i still wont use it

 

[Section 5]

For those who haven't seen it yet, this is surprisingly strong from North:

‘Really confident in his side of the story’: North chair backs Clarkson amid Hawthorn probe​

Sonja Hood seems to be very astute and well-respected, and undoubtedly has read/heard essentially all the information that exists on this situation at present. For her to be publicly saying that suggests to me that this thing may take a different course to what initially seemed likely. Just no way she would make those kinds of comments otherwise.

This is the first time I have thought the scales are maybe now tipping to Fagan sticking around as the most probable outcome.

After reading the article i don't see any more incite to what allegedly happened
Just a President backing their incoming coach
AFL Commission chairman Richard Goyder a new player in the article but he did not add to what is known

 

[Mighty Lions]

Why does briztoon tag someone three times in one post?

Why does briztoon briztoon briztoon mention me and my post but not ask me directly the question he asked BF Posters?

 

[Clarkythelion]

journalists are the most unaccountable professions until they get sued, take a minor issue buddy Franklin, Michael Atkinson channel 9 reported he had told Sydney he was leaving and had told people he was coming to Brisbane, it was absolute made up bullshit, there's no repercussions for it at all, oh well must of got that one wrong here's my next story

Almost every TV station and paper in Australia has been successfully proven to publish crap in the last few years. Rebel Wilson, Jeffery Rush, Craig McLaughlin, Scott Morrison, Christian Porter have all won cases against the major outlets and the minor outlets like ABC. Plus there are several more ongoing cases yet. It's a calculated risk, the slander $ compensation is often less than the eyeballs gained in readership.

I can certainly see where mighty-lions is coming from.

Just take the channel 10 case with Scott Morrison - They reported a lady in the bushfires told Morrison "your not my Prime Minister" and they reported it as a negative that the people in those areas did not support Morrison. Channel 10 just cut the bit where the lady said, "I'm a British citizen, you're not my Prime Minister" and it was a positive interaction.

It's not just an Australian thing - Jonny Dep, Megan Markel and the list goes on who have won cases against what people came to think were reputable media outlets.

No one should trust the media without some checking of facts themselves from multiple sources

 

[Tom14]

Almost every TV station and paper in Australia has been successfully proven to publish crap in the last few years. Rebel Wilson, Jeffery Rush, Craig McLaughlin, Scott Morrison, Christian Porter have all won cases against the major outlets and the minor outlets like ABC. Plus there are several more ongoing cases yet. It's a calculated risk, the slander $ compensation is often less than the eyeballs gained in readership.

I can certainly see where mighty-lions is coming from.

Just take the channel 10 case with Scott Morrison - They reported a lady in the bushfires told Morrison "your not my Prime Minister" and they reported it as a negative that the people in those areas did not support Morrison. Channel 10 just cut the bit where the lady said, "I'm a British citizen, you're not my Prime Minister" and it was a positive interaction.

It's not just an Australian thing - Jonny Dep, Megan Markel and the list goes on who have won cases against what people came to think were reputable media outlets.

No one should trust the media without some checking of facts themselves from multiple sources

I've seen this mentioned a heap in this thread and this just isn't true - Porter settled, and the ABC paid the mediation costs but Porter had to pay his own legal costs. That is as far from a win as you can get basically. Australia is pretty much the most favourable place in the world for defamation claims against news outlets as well.

I do find the other idea that the ABC did this 'for clicks' a bit funny. Yes, readership is a metric for them, but they have no commercial incentive at all to publish sensationalist things as they are publicly funded, and they can tend to be quite conservative on what they print because they get hauled into senate estimates often for questioning.

 

[Mighty Lions]

I've seen this mentioned a heap in this thread and this just isn't true - Porter settled, and the ABC paid the mediation costs but Porter had to pay his own legal costs. That is as far from a win as you can get basically. Australia is pretty much the most favourable place in the world for defamation claims against news outlets as well.

I do find the other idea that the ABC did this 'for clicks' a bit funny. Yes, readership is a metric for them, but they have no commercial incentive at all to publish sensationalist things as they are publicly funded, and they can tend to be quite conservative on what they print because they get hauled into senate estimates often for questioning.

Dis agree. They are all there telling stories knowingly that aren't accurate or true primarily to get noticed....its not just about the $ its about them being seen or heard regardless of the truth in what they say.

 

[Sausages]

Sorry for the personal comments sausages, over stayed my welcome.

It's fine man, I didn't take them personally - no harm done whatsoever

We may disagree on a great many things, and I don't assess any of you "personally" as a consequence - you just have a different opinion and that isn't a hanging offence afaic

We all want what we perceive to the best outcome for our footy club and to me, that's all that matters

FWIW, I stepped away too to calm things down as I wasn't helping the situation either

 

[Military_man]

Almost every TV station and paper in Australia has been successfully proven to publish crap in the last few years. Rebel Wilson, Jeffery Rush, Craig McLaughlin, Scott Morrison, Christian Porter have all won cases against the major outlets and the minor outlets like ABC. Plus there are several more ongoing cases yet. It's a calculated risk, the slander $ compensation is often less than the eyeballs gained in readership.

I can certainly see where mighty-lions is coming from.

Just take the channel 10 case with Scott Morrison - They reported a lady in the bushfires told Morrison "your not my Prime Minister" and they reported it as a negative that the people in those areas did not support Morrison. Channel 10 just cut the bit where the lady said, "I'm a British citizen, you're not my Prime Minister" and it was a positive interaction.

It's not just an Australian thing - Jonny Dep, Megan Markel and the list goes on who have won cases against what people came to think were reputable media outlets.

No one should trust the media without some checking of facts themselves from multiple sources

They didn’t support Morrison hence why we now have albo as PM


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[RoyBoy17]

So there are no news sources you trust? Is all reporting is equally false?

I think that is an absurd notion.

We are saying he is wrong for reporting names before they have had a chance to conduct a full and independent investigation. Surely that is logical. If he’s so right and just then at least afford both parties anonymity. That’s got nothing to do with what he has actually written in terms of reporting allegations.

Half assed attempts to contact our coach, give him a 24 hour time frame to respond to horrific allegations and then name him anyway is really poor and lacks class.

Journalists have vested interests, whether pressure from their employer, their own agenda or otherwise. Opinion writing is great when it comes to politics/ sports but when it comes to serious allegations then afford people some respect.

 

[briztoon]

Why does briztoon tag someone three times in one post?

Sorry. I don’t mean anything by it. It’s just habit, if I’m going to talk about someone or mention them, I tag them so they know and no one gets the idea that I’m talking about someone behind their back.

Everyone deserves a right of reply.

 

[Section 5]

Dis agree. They are all there telling stories knowingly that aren't accurate or true primarily to get noticed....its not just about the $ its about them being seen or heard regardless of the truth in what they say.

You keep saying this like it is an absolute
I would say from your comments you don't read/watch/listen to the ABC much at all.
Why would you if you feel that way
The ABC web/programmes you may read/watch you obviously find are inaccurate or not to you liking

You have the ABC web site
13 TV channels + 10 radio channels available via TV
76 radio channels (quite a few of these would share programmes etc)
1 international TV channel

I could spend my lifetime trying to watch all these to form an opinion
..........
Regarding defamation payouts
With millions and millions of articles/radio shows/ podcasts every year in Australia there are not all that many really
..........
Without journalist breaking stories, a lot if injustices/corruption/wrong doing/wage theft etc, etc would go unnoticed
Sure they get things wrong from time to time. Mostly from bad research or fatchecking

 

[briztoon]

Why does briztoon briztoon briztoon mention me and my post but not ask me directly the question he asked BF Posters?

It was more a rhetorical question.

 

[BangyBangy]

They didn’t support Morrison hence why we now have albo as PM


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Reckon there may have been quite a few reasons why good ol Scotty got the kibosh from the voting public, that would be way down on the list for me.

 

[Military_man]

Reckon there may have been quite a few reasons why good ol Scotty got the kibosh from the voting public, that would be way down on the list for me.

Yea true I guess u could fill a hat with all his blunders . He lost me the day he took empathy lessons . Empathy is something we are born with . If u don’t have natural empathy then you ain’t a nice person.


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[Saucery]

And still no comment from rent a quote Jeff, silence is deafening.

 

[Macca225]

That is not confirmed, again it's supposed to to be happening but nothing public. I'm a bit confused after listening to Burgoyne speak yesterday on the Grand Final panel. He clearly made the statement - I was interviewed, I didn't know what was in the report, I was not aware and no one I've spoken to at the club knows anything about it, I support the families for coming forward, we will know more in 6 to 8 week about what happened AND "if it happened". That is how he finished his statement, the 7 of us watching all just looked at each other. He was very considered in his words the whole way through.

The clip if any one is interested

 

[knaf]

Thanks for the clip Macca. It’s the sort of thing I come to this thread to find.

perhaps those interested in the “Free” press argument could take it to another thread

 

[Mayestro]

You keep saying this like it is an absolute
I would say from your comments you don't read/watch/listen to the ABC much at all.
Why would you if you feel that way
The ABC web/programmes you may read/watch you obviously find are inaccurate or not to you liking

You have the ABC web site
13 TV channels + 10 radio channels available via TV
76 radio channels (quite a few of these would share programmes etc)
1 international TV channel

I could spend my lifetime trying to watch all these to form an opinion
..........
Regarding defamation payouts
With millions and millions of articles/radio shows/ podcasts every year in Australia there are not all that many really
..........
Without journalist breaking stories, a lot if injustices/corruption/wrong doing/wage theft etc, etc would go unnoticed
Sure they get things wrong from time to time. Mostly from bad research or fatchecking

Without investigative journalists Catholic and other priests would still be traumatising children- if they get the odd one wrong its still worth it for the good they do. People should watch the movie Spotlight as an example of how effective the press can be as truth tellers.

(I know it’s been mentioned before but the last few pages are a good example of what the Murdoch press has done to the Overton window in this country.)

 

[Saucery]

I honestly believe there's no way this is over by Christmas. What with the federal government putting Gill on notice about a thorough investigation including findings and actions Gil will tread very carefully on this one. It's the end of his tenure but he is staying on to see this through, due in little doubt to the damage it will do to his reputation. There's no way he can walk away from this before he has ensured enough has been seen to be done to satisfy the horde let alone justice. There's no running for the Brisbane roll if he abandons this to others to clean up, in case he is found culpable. Then there's the legal action to follow. Saga incoming and even if all sides cooperate it will still run nearly as long as the Essendon one.

 

[martinson]

Without investigative journalists Catholic and other priests would still be traumatising children- if they get the odd one wrong its still worth it for the good they do. People should watch the movie Spotlight as an example of how effective the press can be as truth tellers.

(I know it’s been mentioned before but the last few pages are a good example of what the Murdoch press has done to the Overton window in this country.)

The concept that the public is led by the nose by the press is one that I'm not fully onboard with.

The Murdoch press by and large generally print what they they think people want to hear to increase circulation. Murdoch gets blamed for everything by social progressives oblivious to their own biases and the way in which issues they support are framed. Moreover mainstream press is becoming far less of an influence with the emergence of SM, the 24 hour news cycle and every self righteous prick on either side getting some sort of platform to distort the facts and shove their own views down people's throats.

There are many fine ,reputable journalists and reporters in every country with high ethical standards who sometimes risk their own lives in war torn areas to bring accurate news and tell stories. There are many journalists and reporters around the world I respect.

Footy reporters and journalists are scraping the bottom of the barrel in terms of intelligence and professional qualifications in the world of journalism and generally get into it because they have an interest in footy and want to rub shoulders and cozy up to those involved in the game. Anyone not interested in AFL for instance doesn't much care what they write, most of the time they're not reporting on anything important and people are confusing those 'journalists' with the profession as a whole which does have many fine people in it.

As for the ABC I won't give my honest thoughts and experiences because I'll be even less liked than what I am.