Play Nice Hawthorn culture and Fagan

[dlanod]

This is going to be a very touchy subject.

There will be a very broad range of opinions about the correct way to handle this.

I'll remind everyone to post respectfully at this time - sniping at each other is not going to help.

Any continued pointless back and forth will get a day or more to cool off. If you want to avoid this fate, let it go.

 

[Lions time]

Geee...who would do that .....or.......Gee, who would call them guiliy and slander their good reputations before the final report is made?

Disgusting the treatment Fagan & Clarkson and their families are enduring at the moment. The stress and trauma they are dealing with right now without having a chance to have their say is immoral and just wrong. I'm often ashamed of who we are becoming as a country these days.

I’m with you mate. I have been watching from overseas for years now. Whenever I travel home I see big differences each time. Some people find it hard to see when they don’t have the opportunity to see it from afar.


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[Mighty Lions]

Ultimately the only people with more info are those who were at hawthorn at the relevant period and the affected families. We know that Clarkson and Fagan deny the events occurred - the club has that denial as well.

Just because someone has been excellent, caring and supportive at our club does not mean they were the same at another one in an different environment and culture. I am not assuming guilt, but there needs to be consideration of risk management just in case there is an adverse finding.

Overall I would also like to see a commitment from our club to look into the treatment of First Nations players in our history - that is something directly within our power to do and address.

C'mom Tom14 . We look at people's character & pass judgements of peoples actions based on their history all the time.

We talk about "inclusion" often. How can there be inclusion when we continue to highlight differences and implement different rules for different people.

 

[Squizz89]

How does Wellington's support for Chris Fagan as a coach and person have the potential to bite him on the * Surely, he is entitled to support the Chris Fagan (and his family) on the basis of what he knows of Chris and how he has conducted himself at the Lions.

No issue at all with him supporting him as his chairman and a friend. I would expect nothing less, but there’s nothing stopping him doing that privately.

We already have the social media trolls basically saying we’re supporting a racist or words to that effect which we know is all bull* and wasn’t the intention of that statement at all. But what we need to remember is, we have become the collateral damage in this situation. Let’s not make it worse for ourselves if we don’t have too.

 

[RoyBoy17]

Both club presidents publicly backing their coaches. Probs tells you all you need to know.

 

[T Rick]

No issue at all with him supporting him as his chairman and a friend. I would expect nothing less, but there’s nothing stopping him doing that privately.

We already have the social media trolls basically saying we’re supporting a racist or words to that effect which we know is all bull* and wasn’t the intention of that statement at all. But what we need to remember is, we have become the collateral damage in this situation. Let’s not make it worse for ourselves if we don’t have too.

F*k the trolls - I would rather back in people who know Fages personally. Wellington is a very calm, measured and balanced Chairman.

 

[Mighty Lions]

No issue at all with him supporting him as his chairman and a friend. I would expect nothing less, but there’s nothing stopping him doing that privately.

We already have the social media trolls basically saying we’re supporting a racist or words to that effect which we know is all bull* and wasn’t the intention of that statement at all. But what we need to remember is, we have become the collateral damage in this situation. Let’s not make it worse for ourselves if we don’t have too.

I think the club makes it worse by not saying anything. This was an important statement and well overdue in my opinion. LOYALTY.

 

[BangyBangy]

Going to be a controversial position on this thread, but don’t think we should have put out a statement.

Don’t pre-judge the investigation yes and support the employee as appropriate, not sure we needed to put something out now.

Lol, c'mon you've already got his papers stamped Tom.

If this goes to court, I hope you don't get called up that week for Jury duty.

I think Fagan is in the middle & Clarko is on the right in this pic.

 

[Hollow Knight]

C'mom Tom14 . We look at people's character & pass judgements of peoples actions based on their history all the time.

We talk about "inclusion" often. How can there be inclusion when we continue to highlight differences and implement different rules for different people.

Because inclusion and differences aren't mutually exclusive, unless your definition of inclusion is assimilation.

 

[BangyBangy]

Both club presidents publicly backing their coaches. Probs tells you all you need to know.

I wouldn't go that far RoyBoy, I'd certainly say it means there will be two (at least) very difference versions of the truth to come out. Not that unexpected.

 

[Tom14]

Lol, c'mon you've already got his papers stamped Tom.

If this goes to court, I hope you don't get called up that week for Jury duty.

I think Fagan is in the middle & Clarko is on the right in this pic.

I’m the Houdini of jury duty - I tell the court I have a law degree but don’t practice and they send me home very quickly

 

[BRAB]

I wonder what has happened for us to issue another statement given how we left our last one.

The Brisbane Lions and Chris have mutually agreed that he will take a leave of absence from the Club so he can fully cooperate in the investigation.

As the matters are now with the AFL Integrity Unit, the Brisbane Lions won't make any further comment at this stage.

I imagine something has changed in the past few days for us to issue a stronger statement in support of the coach. If it was me, I wouldn't have issued another statement but I imagine the club might have more information. Would we have access to the Hawthorn report at this stage?

 

[BangyBangy]

I’m the Houdini of jury duty - I tell the court I have a law degree but don’t practice and they send me home very quickly

I tell them I'm prejudiced against everyone equally.

 

[Section 5]

A Statement from Brisbane Lions Chairperson, Andrew Wellington, on behalf of the Brisbane Lions Football Club.

Since Chris Fagan arrived at the Brisbane Lions in October 2016, he has been more than just our Head Coach. He has been a role model, a mentor, and a father figure.

He has played a key role in steering our Club into the strong position it’s in today; integral to our success on and off the field.

In all of my dealings with Chris over the past six years, he has always made the welfare of our players and staff an utmost priority.

Chris has been a great supporter of all of our players and their families and has worked hard to ensure our Club provides a culturally safe environment for everyone.

We stand by Chris as he commits himself to be part of the AFL investigation, which gives him procedural fairness, into allegations concerning historical events at the Hawthorn Football Club, where he was a former employee.

Chris has categorically denied any wrongdoing. It has been a distressing and difficult week for Chris, his wife Ursula, and his family, as it has for many, and we strongly support his right to a fair, impartial, and independent investigative process.

Yes i got the email sent to members
Understandable and predictable at this early stage of the alledged incidents

Will be interested in the clubs stance as time passes
They would be aware of what could happen, and would have discussed some alternate plans.

 

[Tom14]

I wonder what has happened for us to issue another statement given how we left our last one.



I imagine something has changed in the past few days for us to issue a stronger statement in support of the coach. If it was me, I wouldn't have issued another statement but I imagine the club might have more information. Would we have access to the Hawthorn report at this stage?

A Sunday at 5pm the day after the grand final statement does not fill me with any reassurance.

Can’t see how we could have been briefed on the hawthorn review either as presumably Clarkson and Fagan haven’t had the opportunity to see it yet either.

 

[Mighty Lions]

Because inclusion and differences aren't mutually exclusive, unless your definition of inclusion is assimilation.

Pfffttt. That's simply civil libertarian BS.

Male/Female/White/Black/Red/Yellow/Pink with Purple Polka dots/Gay/Straight.......We are all people and all deserve the same respect & be treated equal.

 

[nup]

Because inclusion and differences aren't mutually exclusive, unless your definition of inclusion is assimilation

Isn't assimillating cultural differences precisely what we're trying to achieve, not excluding one group or another?

 

[Hollow Knight]

Isn't assimillating cultural differences precisely what we're trying to achieve, not excluding one group or another?

That's not what assimilation means.

You don't have to look far to see what assimilationist policies look like. In Australia alone we have the White Australia Policy and the Stolen Generations as examples.

 

[Squizz89]

I think the club makes it worse by not saying anything. This was an important statement and well overdue in my opinion. LOYALTY.

Maybe for some. Not sure our indigenous fans and members and possibly even the indigenous players would be real happy with that statement but who knows really?

I should reiterate that I am like a lot of people on here. I couldn’t and still can’t believe the allegations levelled against Fages as I can only judge the man on how he’s presented since he’s been at our club and he’s been nothing but exemplary at least publicly, however unfortunately he’s dealing with some pretty heavy allegations against him which by consequence effects us as a club.

We just have to be really smart with how we play things and consider “all sides” when handling all that is to come, that’s all I’m saying.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Pfffttt. That's simply civil libertarian BS.

Add that to another list of terms you seem to fundamentally misunderstand.

What an incredibly odd term to just randomly throw out there.

 

[BangyBangy]

I wonder what has happened for us to issue another statement given how we left our last one.



I imagine something has changed in the past few days for us to issue a stronger statement in support of the coach. If it was me, I wouldn't have issued another statement but I imagine the club might have more information. Would we have access to the Hawthorn report at this stage?

A Sunday at 5pm the day after the grand final statement does not fill me with any reassurance.

Can’t see how we could have been briefed on the hawthorn review either as presumably Clarkson and Fagan haven’t had the opportunity to see it yet either.

Yep, that's what I was thinking might be the case BRAB .

Tom14 I'm not sure it matters what day it is. Doesn't take much to send an e-mail, as soon as the Grand Final ended this is all the AFL would be focused on IMO.

Just comes down to whether the AFL thinks it's appropriate for North & Brisbane to receive a copy of the Hawthorn report at this stage.

 

[Mighty Lions]

Maybe for some. Not sure our indigenous fans and members and possibly even the indigenous players would be real happy with that statement but who knows really?

I should reiterate that I am like a lot of people on here. I couldn’t and still can’t believe the allegations levelled against Fages as I can only judge the man on how he’s presented since he’s been at our club and he’s been nothing but exemplary at least publicly, however unfortunately he’s dealing with some pretty heavy allegations against him which unfortunately than effects us as a club.

We just have to be really smart with how we play things and consider “all sides” when handling all that is to come, that’s all I’m saying.

Our players are happy with it.

 

[BRAB]

A Sunday at 5pm the day after the grand final statement does not fill me with any reassurance.

Can’t see how we could have been briefed on the hawthorn review either as presumably Clarkson and Fagan haven’t had the opportunity to see it yet either.

Yeah if we don't have any additional information I think it could have waited. I would imagine everyone that matters knows how fantastic Chris has been for us over the past 6 years and that he is one of the major reasons why our club is in a good position these days.

The headlines at the moment just read "Lions Back Fagan". I can see how that could backfire in two months if it comes out Fagan was complicit in all of this.

 

[Squizz89]

Yeah if we don't have any additional information I think it could have waited. I would imagine everyone that matters knows how fantastic Chris has been for us over the past 6 years and that he is one of the major reasons why our club is in a good position these days.

The headlines at the moment just read "Lions Back Fagan". I can see how that could backfire in two months if it comes out Fagan was complicit in all of this.

Yeah you could only assume both clubs have been provided with the report by now which has lead to them going public with their backing statements.

Am I right in saying that the ABC allegations weren’t in the interim Hawks report though? They seem to be the claims that will need to be tested I guess.

 

[PattyKwasagun]

Very interesting comments from Caro on Offsiders this morning that Charlie personally met with Gil this week to defend Fages. That’s as resounding as it probably gets in terms of support.

 

[martinson]

I get the feeling Fagan and Clarkson are going to categorically say none of this ever happened.

Well more than a feeling.

Both club Pres' are on a hiding to nothing if they put out what they've put out and it turns out they backed the wrong horse.

There's a smell about something in all this . Never looked right as soon as the news dropped.

Let's see.