Play Nice Hawthorn culture and Fagan

[dlanod]

This is going to be a very touchy subject.

There will be a very broad range of opinions about the correct way to handle this.

I'll remind everyone to post respectfully at this time - sniping at each other is not going to help.

Any continued pointless back and forth will get a day or more to cool off. If you want to avoid this fate, let it go.

 

[DevRoboGun]

If fagan does coach next season, you'd expect the group would be more unified than ever and the players doing everything in their power to speak with their football , for fages

 

[M Malice]

It is naive in the extreme that this Hawks report would not have been leaked and hence available to most in the industry to read, too many people would know for most of its contents not to be out and about by now.

No way us random nuffies on social media know as much/more of what is in that report than well connected people in the footy industry.

 

[Mighty Lions]

If fagan does coach next season, you'd expect the group would be more unified than ever and the players doing everything in their power to speak with their football , for fages

I would love that but doubt it. I hope I am wrong.

 

[Sausages]

People are looking into the chairmans statement as a significent change of circumstances but i doubt it is

I would agree if he said something along the lines of
"after throughly reviewing the Hawthorn document and going over the alledged incidents with Chris Fagan we are confident etc etc"

But nothing of this nature is mentioned

Assuming the case, that the Lions Executive has in fact received more fulsome knowledge.

Then alluding to that fact now would make them the mouthpiece as to the contents of this knowledge, if only by insinuation or suggestively, under reporter questioning. Hell, even taking no questions in that scenario would be dissected ad infinitum.

Better by far for that mouthpiece to be the AFL than anyone else imo Not mentioning the "why" of the support is probably a safer course.

 

[Lions time]

Take Fages out of it - lets say his name wasn't included in the ABC report.

Do you think that something like this could have happened at Hawthorn, given everything else that has been reported, including by the Riolis earlier this year?

Honestly “no”. Cultural insensitivities “ possibly “. There is always 2 sides to a story. Not a fan of Kennet but his off the cuff comment wouldn’t have rated a second thought by most.


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[Section 5]

Assuming the case, that the Lions Executive has in fact received more fulsome knowledge.

Then alluding to that fact now would make them the mouthpiece as to the contents of this knowledge, if only by insinuation or suggestively, under reporter questioning. Hell, even taking no questions in that scenario would be dissected ad infinitum.

Better by far for that mouthpiece to be the AFL than anyone else imo Not mentioning the "why" of the support is probably a safer course.

Could very well be the case
But that in itself is reading something into the statement that is also not there

Just saying people should not read anything one way or the other into his statement.

 

[Hollow Knight]

So you are generalising in saying an indigenous's family connection is more sensitive to someone else non-indigenous?

If so, I find that a little offensive and kinda racist in itself. I think every family connection is unique and not determined by color or race.

Of course I am generalising… is there any other way to discuss what makes particular cultures different from others?

This isn’t the “gotcha” you think it is. You are so clearly looking for a “win” rather than engaging in honest discourse. Bad-faith nonsense.

 

[dlanod]

Rioli's issues were driven by Kennet weren't they - if so, nothing would surprise me in terms of his behaviour towards anyone.

Nah - the very specific Kennett encounter was given as the straw that broke the camel's back but Rioli mentioned other examples, including from players at the time.

 

[T Rick]

I am an insurance lawyer. Fagan would be covered under liability insurance for instances like these. Under the insurance terms her would not be allowed to respond for prejudice purposes.

He would need to first notify the club and then his insurers, who would then engage lawyers. No way you can do that in 24 hrs

The 24 hours notice thing is bullsh*t anyway...depends on when it was sent, who it was sent to and when it was opened for starters. How many leading questions did the email contain and how long would it take to answer those questions without legal advice anyway.

 

[BRAB]

For the life of me I cannot understand how showing support for Chris Fagan and his family at this time could backfire. The Club is supporting the person they know and respect...he deserves nothing less.

If it comes out that the ABC report was 100% true then I don't think the extra statement was needed. That's the risk I'm referring to.

 

[Sausages]

Could very well be the case
But that in itself is reading something into the statement that is also not there

Just saying people should not read anything one way or the other into his statement.

The only thing I read into it as exactly what is stated - the club is standing by Fages.

As to the why of that statement, that is what is being speculated upon.

Urging caution in that speculation is warranted though, I will agree.

And acknowledging that caution, I then speculate it is possible that the club chiefs have been briefed more fully than press galleries and social media managers, thus encouraging the club to make the statement.

I could be wrong.

 

[Mighty Lions]

Of course I am generalising… is there any other way to discuss what makes particular cultures different from others?

This isn’t the “gotcha” you think it is. You are so clearly looking for a “win” rather than engaging in honest discourse. Bad-faith nonsense.

Total BS. Just tired of the un-equal rubbish spoken that reeks hypocracy.

Also hate(& I rarely use that word) how it's Ok to destroy some people's lives unfairly because of political correctness rather than the truth.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Also hate(& I rarely use that word) how it's Ok to destroy some people's lives unfairly because of political correctness rather than the truth.

Cool, but that’s not what I’m suggesting so I don’t know why you are aiming it at me.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Total BS. Just tired of the un-equal rubbish spoken that reeks hypocracy.

Okay mate, culture doesn’t exist. I now see the light.

 

[Maboo]

I would be shocked if there wasn’t significantly more context and information on this subject available behind the scenes. It would be inappropriate to speculate on what that information might be, but I am entirely sure that Gil would know so much more than any of us (and more than the ABC too) on this matter right now.

There is just nothing to be gained by the club publicly supporting Fages in the way they have tonight without context and information beyond what is publicly available. Wellington is far too professional an operator to do anything like that.

I thought I read somewhere that both North and the Lions were provided with a copy of the report, wether this is true or not, I don’t know but it might explain the statement.

Pardon the intrusion.

Just wanted to pass on my condolences to you all, unfortunately both our clubs have been collateral damage to this steaming mess, whilst it appears Hawthorn have wiped their hands of it.

It’s really difficult for us on the outside to really know what’s going to happen.

What I will say is that Sonja Hood is the best operator I can remember at my club for a very long time. Above all the degrees and accolades, she is a very good person with extremely high values. She is also a hard arse & very methodical when she speaks publicly.

Now we know that she has been speaking to Clarkson throughout the last week, getting his “side”. I have no doubt in my mind she would have grilled him on every last detail of these accusations.

I don’t take her comments yesterday lightly. For her to back in Clarkson as she has, tells me she is very confident in his side of events. This isn’t a case of a president just standing up for her coach. Sonja has built a career that revolves around her values of equality, multiculturalism and community. There are implications for her in this.

My view is that after reading the article, speaking to Clarkson in detail, reading the report (which supposedly has been provided to the 3 clubs involved) & speaking to our indigenous players, she is confident to back him in publicly.

This speaks volumes that Clarkson and Fagan will be coaching next year IMO,

Cheers.

 

[Brett C]

Take Fages out of it - lets say his name wasn't included in the ABC report.

Do you think that something like this could have happened at Hawthorn, given everything else that has been reported, including by the Riolis earlier this year?

The Rioli claims are laughable and any reasonable person would ignore them.

Ripped jeans and tears over a comment that’s been make likely millions of times.

It doesn’t help genuine claims of racism when the dumbest of dumb claims get that level of airtime

 

[martinson]

I saw something in the media somewhere , and people can correct me if I'm wrong , perhaps it was something Leigh Matthews said in the podcast put up on this thread , that the accusers were all 17.

My only thoughts were how did he know that and secondly , wow, 17.

 

[Section 5]

The only thing I read into it as exactly what is stated - the club is standing by Fages.

As to the why of that statement, that is what is being speculated upon.

Urging caution in that speculation is warranted though, I will agree.

And acknowledging that caution, I then speculate it is possible that the club chiefs have been briefed more fully than press galleries and social media managers, thus encouraging the club to make the statement.

I could be wrong.

Or you could be right
Or half wrong and half right
Thats why we are on page 62 and that is only the Lions part of BF on the subject

 

[Tom14]

I saw something in the media somewhere , and people can correct me if I'm wrong , perhaps it was something Leigh Matthews said in the podcast put up on this thread , that the accusers were all 17.

My only thoughts were how did he know that and secondly , wow, 17.

AFL draft age has been 18 since at least 2009 (dangerfield one of the last ones drafted at 17 I think in 07?) so I don't see how this could be the case. 18-19 very possible.

 

[Maboo]

I saw something in the media somewhere , and people can correct me if I'm wrong , perhaps it was something Leigh Matthews said in the podcast put up on this thread , that the accusers were all 17.

My only thoughts were how did he know that and secondly , wow, 17.

Leigh also said on 3AW that in light of these kinds of allegations, that staff at football clubs might consider recording all conversations.
Not sure how I would feel about that as a player.

 

[AFLQLD]

Everyone has opinions and it is reasonable to have strong feelings at times like this. But there are very few absolutes in this world and there is a lot of grey in it. It is possible to state opinions and have strong feelings without having personal jabs at people who have different opinions. We aren’t in parliament here. I would hope our standards can be higher.

 

[Sausages]

Or you could be right
Or half wrong and half right
Thats why we are on page 62 and that is only the Lions part of BF on the subject

That's it dude ahaha

And as long as we all read people speculating, and don't take someone's speculation as morally indicative, no harm done.

Just because someone speculates on a thing doesn't mean that they are endorsing it unless otherwise expressly indicated.

 

[martinson]

AFL draft age has been 18 since at least 2009 (dangerfield one of the last ones drafted at 17 I think in 07?) so I don't see how this could be the case. 18-19 very possible.

I'll have to go and listen again then but Leigh specifically said 17 in there somewhere which kinda shocked me. Either way maybe they were 18 or whatever. The comments he made were quite insightful re how you leave your own family and the only other family you have are at the footy club.

 

[Mighty Lions]

Okay mate, culture doesn’t exist. I now see the light.

Culture exists for all of us HK...nobody is excluded from culture but some cultures get given more importance than others which isn't right.

 

[lioninthesand]

Leigh also said on 3AW that in light of these kinds of allegations, that staff at football clubs might consider recording all conversations.
Not sure how I would feel about that as a player.

Any reasonable organisation would only have high level, potentially volatile/challenging conversations that could back fire - with a witness and or following proper HR processes, standard procedure at my work. recording all conversations is a ludicrous suggestion, however, you’d hope standard processes that mean this type of alleged situation wouldn’t or couldn’t occur in this day and age.