Play Nice Hawthorn culture and Fagan

[dlanod]

This is going to be a very touchy subject.

There will be a very broad range of opinions about the correct way to handle this.

I'll remind everyone to post respectfully at this time - sniping at each other is not going to help.

Any continued pointless back and forth will get a day or more to cool off. If you want to avoid this fate, let it go.

 

[martinson]

This seems to be a completely different argument to what I was talking about with ML. I wasn't saying anything about the inevitability of hierarchies or presenting some utopian dream about true equality.

ML was implying that it is minority groups who are privileged at the expense of the dominant mainstream. I was countering that perspective. A very different discussion from what you've said above. i.e. it was a debate not about whether some groups are privileged over others, but about which ones actually are.

OK. Got it. Apologies , I just read your post. I misinterpreted.

Well I know which ones are. That's self evident.

I don't resile from what I said though, that's just my general worldview and in some ways supports the point you were making.

 

[Sausages]

With all this in mind, I'll send $100 to the journo who asks Gil at the very next media appointment "In light of the controversy surrounding this issue, what's your view on the current state of media ownership and reporting in Australia? "

 

[Hollow Knight]

There is no doubt in my mind some minority groups get extra chances and treatment, willie Rioli prime example but I’m sure I’ll probably get smashed for saying it.

Not smashed, but in what way did he get special treatment compared to a non-indigenous person who commits a doping violation?

 

[Hollow Knight]

What about after that? When he was caught at the airport


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Good behaviour bonds/diversion are pretty damn standard for minor marijuana possession. What did you think should have happened to him?

 

[mighty_lions]

Good behaviour bonds are pretty damn standard for marijuana possession. What did you think should have happened to him?

Did he receive a strike from the illicit drug policy (albeit the most inept policy)

Or we just don’t worry about it, what penalty did he receive from the afl or the club ? I would probably delisted him


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[Hollow Knight]

Did he receive a strike from the illicit drug policy (albeit the most inept policy)

Or we just don’t worry about it, what penalty did he receive from the afl or the club ? I would probably delisted him

No idea if he got a strike or not.

He was already midway through a 2 year suspension so I assume that factored in to how West Coast went about disciplining him.

In any case, you don't seem to have any substantiation behind your claim that he was treated differently for being indigenous.

And delisting a bloke for possession of 25 grams of pot? Jeeeeeesus. What would you have done to Bailey Smith? Firing squad?

 

[pod17]

There is no doubt in my mind some minority groups get extra chances and treatment, willie Rioli prime example but I’m sure I’ll probably get smashed for saying it.



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Not to derail the topic, but that’s one of the most ridiculous things I’ve read on this thread (which is saying something).

As a comparison, Bailey Smith gets praised as being ‘brave’ by some, and a mental health advocate by others (I’m not passing judgement either way) after a video is circulated of him taking an illicit substance. Willie had cameras following him around like he was a convicted criminal after the Gatorade and airport incidents.

I thought West Coast, from the outside looking in at least, handled the situation quite maturely. I feel for them that he is leaving after the club kept the faith, but the offer being reported is too big to pass up.

And if you’re referring to First Nations Australians getting more ‘chances’ or ‘special treatment’ you’d be well served having a read through the expansive list of available material that details exactly the type of ‘special treatment’ that has been directed their way - starting with the Bringing them Home report.

 

[martinson]

With all this in mind, I'll send $100 to the journo who asks Gil at the very next media appointment "In light of the controversy surrounding this issue, what's your view on the current state of media ownership and reporting in Australia? "

' Well I think we have a range of views across the media in this country and all of them do a great job . There's a process they follow , everyone's rights are protected , they go to ground on a whole range of issues affecting our code and we listen carefully to all they have to say and put our arms around those affected and listen even more carefully to send out a message to the committees established to dig deeper into these matters. Our corporate supporters are locked in to sponsoring diversity across all media and of course gender equality is another thing we've been at the forefront of going to ground on and encouraging the media to get the many qualified women, Lbgti's , transvestites and anyone else who stands for greater rights for any man , woman or child to express themselves in a way that shows the world what a great code we have in Australia. And how inclusive we are and respectful of everyone's rights

I'd also like to thank the Waranjiri people on whose ground I'm giving this interview . '

 

[rye]

i dont know what this thread is even supposed to be about anymore

 

[McIvor]

This is from an Age article linked on here a few days ago >

Brisbane Lions star Charlie Cameron - in a meeting with senior Indigenous players and the AFL this week - outlined his utter confusion at the allegations levelled at his coach Fagan, allegations that he said painted an unrecognisable picture of the coach he knew.
_____________________________________________________
IMO our other Indigenous players would feel the same as Charlie and would have been briefed on the press release from Andrew Wellington.

I am 100% behind and back Chris Fagan in this.

Fair to say that this whole mess could fracture the indigenous AFL past and present players. Interesting that Eddie Betts said last week he would always trust the word of his "brothers" which to me sounded like he would blindly do so to. I get the feeling that not all indigenous AFL past and present feel the same about Eddie.

I am certainly starting to think that some of these players "stories" (not intended to imply they aren't true) are not going to be supported by their indigenous brethren and the fall out within indigenous circles may have unintended consequences.

 

[Clarkythelion]

It could just be me but I find it interesting that Brisbane and more so North have come out in support of their man.

Neither club had to, all the clubs had to do was sit and wait for the results of the AFL finding but both clubs have basically written a character reference for their men. Its now 4 or 5 days since this all broke, it would have been worked out who is saying what behind the scenes, a furious amout of phone calls have been made, so many players and officials around the Grand Final all talking, there would be a lot of information exchanged and discussed in the corridors over the week/weekend.

Then Brisbane and North on Sunday make these press releases, North saying they are backing the new Coach and Brisbane with its character reference. Any good PR person at a club would be recommending to not get involved, don't take sides, let it play out and let the AFL and Hawthorn take the flack. Then when the findings came out just say then, we always trusted him or, we had no idea of his passed.

It's just interesting to me, having been in a corporate world and played out some of these really big public cases in the media why the 2 clubs seemingly have now taken sides, they must have some more information than us.

 

[Sproj]

What would you have done to Bailey Smith? Firing squad?

Yes. Not because of what he did though, purely to stop everyone having to see that hair.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Also hate(& I rarely use that word) how it's Ok to destroy some people's lives unfairly because of political correctness rather than the truth.

How does anyone know the truth of the situation, besides the people allegedly personally involved?

 

[BrisVegasDru]

No idea if he got a strike or not.

He was already midway through a 2 year suspension so I assume that factored in to how West Coast went about disciplining him.

In any case, you don't seem to have any substantiation behind your claim that he was treated differently for being indigenous.

And delisting a bloke for possession of 25 grams of pot? Jeeeeeesus. What would you have done to Bailey Smith? Firing squad?

i would like to see Bailey smith face a firing squad

 

[Kernel Kurtz]

It could just be me but I find it interesting that Brisbane and more so North have come out in support of their man.

Neither club had to, all the clubs had to do was sit and wait for the results of the AFL finding but both clubs have basically written a character reference for their men. Its now 4 or 5 days since this all broke, it would have been worked out who is saying what behind the scenes, a furious amout of phone calls have been made, so many players and officials around the Grand Final all talking, there would be a lot of information exchanged and discussed in the corridors over the week/weekend.

Then Brisbane and North on Sunday make these press releases, North saying they are backing the new Coach and Brisbane with its character reference. Any good PR person at a club would be recommending to not get involved, don't take sides, let it play out and let the AFL and Hawthorn take the flack. Then when the findings came out just say then, we always trusted him or, we had no idea of his passed.

It's just interesting to me, having been in a corporate world and played out some of these really big public cases in the media why the 2 clubs seemingly have now taken sides, they must have some more information than us.

Has Brisbane taken sides?
I just read Wellington's message.
It sounds like he and the club are full of praise for Chris in regards to the person and the qualities he brings.
Nothing but praise.
He also says "we stand by Chris as he commits himself to the AFL investigation".
(Which sounds just like support more than anything.)
Mentions that Chris has catagorically denied any wrongdoing.
(Chris denies this not the club.)
Then he goes on to talk about the hardship this has brought Chris, his wife and family.
Then finally he says we strongly support his right to a fair, impartial and independant investigative process.

Not really coming out and saying the aligations are false and we are taking Chris's side.
Great message of support without looking like gooses if Chris was to be found guiltyor partially imo.

 

[dlanod]

AFL draft age has been 18 since at least 2009 (dangerfield one of the last ones drafted at 17 I think in 07?) so I don't see how this could be the case. 18-19 very possible.

Given one of the guys was on the list for five years according to the article, some of them would've stretched into their 20s.

 

[dlanod]

And delisting a bloke for possession of 25 grams of pot? Jeeeeeesus. What would you have done to Bailey Smith? Firing squad?

Bailey Smith.

Shane Mumford.

Jake Carlisle.

Tom Liberatore.

All suffered brutally under the inequity applied to them because of the colour of their skin.

Oh wait, two game suspension, two game suspension, two game suspension, four game suspension (because it happened in season).

 

[dlanod]

i dont know what this thread is even supposed to be about anymore

Basically spun into a reiteration of the on-going culture wars now that there's going to be no real news for several months.

 

[nup]

I think all AFL clubs should have a similar review, and that participants should also make sure they concurrently have more expansive discussions with an investigative journalist.

Once the reviews findings have been submitted to the club, I think the investigative journalist should release an article about the allegations which have just been brought to light before the responsible parties have had a chance to consider the findings and take action.

I think this model should clearly be replicated across all AFL clubs, and also any other institution in Australia to give us the greatest shot at moving forward together

 

[T Rick]

Question to those who are right across this issue (as far as one can be on the limited publicly available information). What was the player managers role in this mess? I remain a little confused as to what they were doing at the time these alleged incidents took place. I can see how a complaint directly to a club may not see the light of day but the AFLPA should have been right across this from the get go via the player managers. Perhaps the players never told them about it?!?

Good question!

 

[Lions time]

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[Mighty Lions]

How does anyone know the truth of the situation, besides the people allegedly personally involved?

Agree. Hopefully this AFL investigation will reveal close to the truth and then peoples reputations can be restored. (as much as possible restored anyway)

 

[Scubaveg]

‘To those accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.’

See you in another few years.

James, where you been?


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[McIvor]

Bailey Smith.

Shane Mumford.

Jake Carlisle.

Tom Liberatore.

All suffered brutally under the inequity applied to them because of the colour of their skin.

Oh wait, two game suspension, two game suspension, two game suspension, four game suspension (because it happened in season).

Didn't a couple of white Collingwood boys also get suspended for well over 12 months to? One went onto to play for GWS i think and i seem to recall the other chap or reading that in that one year suspension he drove Ubers. Ive lost context over what Im replying to other than drug related LOL

 

[Hollow Knight]

Didn't a couple of white Collingwood boys also get suspended for well over 12 months to? One went onto to play for GWS i think and i seem to recall the other chap or reading that in that one year suspension he drove Ubers. Ive lost context over what Im replying to other than drug related LOL

Josh Thomas and Lachie Keeffe.