Moved Thread Hawthorn - Excuse Now?

[SA HAWK]

God people on this site need to get a grip on their inane, crackpot, bar-stool thought-out rants. Take out a few poor decisions and some brain farts and the hawks could have beaten a champion side by 3 - 4 goals. This mental edge stuff that will be written to death this week by idiot journalists, such as caroline wilson, is crap.

Some tweaks in the 4th and some better luck/decisions and everyone would be writing off Geelong and stating that we should just hand the flag over to the hawks right now. Sure, we've been made their bitches since 2008, but who haven't they smashed in that time? The hawks are certainly one of the only sides who are presently capable of beating them at the MCG.

The way we keep losing to them suggests otherwise.

Deal with it and hope we can turn it around next time we play them.

 

[CoastersFlag No.5]

As a relative outsider to this clearly this is a great rivalry but unlike say the Sydney-Eagles games of 05 to 06 it's only one team winning them. Clearly call it chance, luck or stupid decisions the Hawks cannot win against Geelong since that flag. Kudos to Geelong they are still the team to beat.

 

[jive]

Our boys just believe that they can win, they never doubt eachother and never think they are out of the contest, it's a great thing to have and it's rubbing onto the young guys now which is fantastic. Hawthorn kicked 0.5 in the last quarter, their excuse is poor kicking, they beat us in pretty much all areas on the ground today except the score board, they are not far behind us, if they had of kicked just 1 goal in their 5 attempts in the last quarter they would have won and we would be sitting here talking about how Geelong are finished and it's an end of an era, 0-2 to start 2012 etc etc.

Anyway, so proud of the Cats, just the way they go about team, amazing team. GO CATS!

Great post - thanks mate
Getting over the impact these games have on my cardiovascular system! Hopefully we get one up on you soon. I think we are finally ready.

 

[jive]

The way we keep losing to them suggests otherwise.

Deal with it and hope we can turn it around next time we play them.

Kicking 5 behinds, two of which in front of goal suggests blundering opportunities. If we didn't get the ball inside 50 in the last then you could put it to mental edge.

 

[Catsmaninamerica]

What is being overlooked is that Hawthorn simply have a rubbish back 6 in terms of big key defenders. ON a wet cold miserable windy day, Hawkins and Pods bent them over and owned them all day. On a dry day, with Varcoe, Wojo, Dawson Simpson/Vardy, Menzel, Josh Hunt back in, thy wont get within 5 goals of the Cats.

 

[SA HAWK]

What is being overlooked is that Hawthorn simply have a rubbish back 6 in terms of big key defenders. ON a wet cold miserable windy day, Hawkins and Pods bent them over and owned them all day. On a dry day, with Varcoe, Wojo, Dawson Simpson/Vardy, Menzel, Josh Hunt back in, thy wont get within 5 goals of the Cats.

In the 8 times you have beaten us only once have you won by 5 goals or more. The games are more often than not decided by 10 points or less.

The weather suited your big bodied midfielders more than ours today.

Geelong are the best wet weather team i have ever seen.

 

[Catsmaninamerica]

ummm ... no

you had two marking tall forward bend you over. on a cold, very wet day, completely unsuited for tall marking forwards. You have no key defenders capable of beating us on a wet day, let alone a dry day.

 

[Sidebottom2Beams]

What is being overlooked is that Hawthorn simply have a rubbish back 6 in terms of big key defenders. ON a wet cold miserable windy day, Hawkins and Pods bent them over and owned them all day. On a dry day, with Varcoe, Wojo, Dawson Simpson/Vardy, Menzel, Josh Hunt back in, thy wont get within 5 goals of the Cats.

Wojo is the big out from all of those, he breaks the lines better than any player in the league.

 

[SA HAWK]

ummm ... no

you had two marking tall forward bend you over. on a cold, very wet day, completely unsuited for tall marking forwards. You have no key defenders capable of beating us on a wet day, let alone a dry day.

You are right they did bend us over but i don't think it would have been any worse if it was a dry day. They marked the ball like it was dry and kicked 8 out of 14 goals.

Your midfield handled the ball better in the wet that ours and i think our gameplan is better suited to dry conditions. Geelong thrive in wet conditions.

 

[jive]

ummm ... no

you had two marking tall forward bend you over. on a cold, very wet day, completely unsuited for tall marking forwards. You have no key defenders capable of beating us on a wet day, let alone a dry day.

Very wet? It lightly showered about 3 times for max 5 mintues. These guys are professional players who are used to not only playing to Geelongs game plan, but also these conditions (which you are grossly overexaggering). The outcome would have been similar had the conditions been "perfect".

 

[checkraiseulite]

Not saying they're all first teamers or anything, but Scarlett, Wojcinski, Varcoe, J. Hunt, Stephenson (whether you consider his illness BS or not), Menzel, Vardy and Simpson.

Genuine lulz at Stephenson, Vardy and Simpson being included in this. How many ruckmen can we expect you guys to play in round 19 or whatever it is when we play you again?

Hawthorn had outs today too: Hodge, Sheils, Bailey, Gilham, Puopolo (who are bona fide first team players).

You won, your youngsters were pretty good and Bartel and your two key forwards killed us when it mattered, you should be happy with the 4 points.

 

[Cohzee]

Very wet? It lightly showered about 3 times for max 5 mintues. These guys are professional players who are used to not only playing to Geelongs game plan, but also these conditions (which you are grossly overexaggering). The outcome would have been similar had the conditions been "perfect".

Were you at the game? If so, did you leave the bar?

The weather was atrocious all day. One minute it was sunny and the next it was raining sideways.

 

[checkraiseulite]

Very wet? It lightly showered about 3 times for max 5 mintues. These guys are professional players who are used to not only playing to Geelongs game plan, but also these conditions (which you are grossly overexaggering). The outcome would have been similar had the conditions been "perfect".

You obviously had the blinds down out at Armadale during the game?

It was raining pretty heavily throughout, but I think Hawthorn considering our game plan's reliance on precision kicking and leading forwards, were probably less happy with the conditions.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Hawks were terribly wasteful all over the field, simple as that

For once Geelong actually had a bad run (by thier standards) with the umpires
Continual persistence with this long bombing into 50 after being so precise going up the field is a killer

No excuses, hawthorn didn't deserve the win, and it seems a lot of opposition supporters are trying to put words in our mouths

 

[DTRAIN87]

So the cats win by two points over a team that finished below them the previous year with comparable outs (and I'm being generous to the cats here) and yet for them it is a stamp on their claim as one of the greatest ever, yet everyone bar the waterboy should come into question at the hawks?

Interesting logic to say the least...

LOL your logic is questionable. Who is Gawthorn missing? A defender and a utility while Geelong is missing 4 premiership team members and 3 key guys who were in their 22 last season regularly.

 

[Bollox]

Rivalry ? Where ? Surely thats just a beat up done to flog tickets.
How can one way predictable results be any sort of rivalry.
Is that 8 or 9 in a row ? I gotta be missing something coz it always comes across like a bunch of Hawthorn kiddies throwing little pebbles from behind the bushes at a Geelong bully.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Genuine lulz at Stephenson, Vardy and Simpson being included in this. How many ruckmen can we expect you guys to play in round 19 or whatever it is when we play you again?

Which part of "Not saying they're all first teamers or anything" are you having trouble with? They are all players with senior experience (along with the other five) and they were all unavailable for whatever reason.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

This thread started off well.

An opposition supporter tried to bait Hawthorn supporters into giving excuses for the loss, but they weren't coming.
Now the Collingwood supporters turn up to tell us all about how they should've won last week, and we're about 5posts away from the entire thread degrading into a "player a, b and c are in our best 22, and better than your players e,f and g.

Meh.

Geelong won what we should've....again. Bring on Round 19.

 

[jimmy35]

Well, whoever was saying that appears to be only 2 points away from being right In the past close losses, it seemed players like Bartel, Selwood and Chapman really took the game away from us, and the losses really looked to be about the Cats completely controlling the last quarter, leaving the Hawk's with very little say in the outcome. Today, Bartel and Selwood certainly impacted the result, but it also took a fair bit of incompetence in our own forward line to help them along. In the past, Geelong seemed to be winning those last quarters, no matter what we did, I don't think that was so much the case this time, we really seemed to shoot ourselves in the foot on numerous occasions (and often with no direct pressure from a Cats player). Cats were still great, and it was bitterly disappointing to be on the losing end of it. Again. However, I think we were closer to finally winning one today than any game last year, and I'm not just talking about the closeness of the final score. Seems the gap is definitely smaller than last year.

Having said that, it is hard to watch all the missed opportunities to win in the last quarter, and not think there is a big mental factor in play now. It is no longer just a case of Geelong finding that bit extra, we genuinely seemed to shit ourselves today, in a way I don't think we have in the previous string of losses. A big concern, given a knockout final may be the next time we meet, with no more opportunities to put the current hoodoo to rest before then. I cling to the hope that the loss of Ottens and Ling will be more strongly felt when their respective natural matchups of Bailey and Hodge (previously Ling's undeniable bitch) are back in the side, (yes, I understand that Cats had significant outs too), but the cats young players seemed to do a great job of soaking up the pressure today, so that may be a vain hope.

Well done to the Cats on taking the opportunity to extend the mental hold they seem to have over the Hawks.

Oh, and a special mention to the pies fans trolling this thread. Apart from showing a general lack of class in not appreciating a great game of footy, good luck making the top 4 this year. Pies have an ordinary list outside your top 4-5 players (i.e. no depth), and you've lost the architect of the game plan that allowed your list to win a flag (after two goes at it) in 2010, despite the list's shortcomings. Unlike some other contenders, pies will need close to a 100% fit side to be any chance in September.

You only wish you could get close enough to Geelong to actually choke (average losing margin over your last two games = 11 goals. LOL). Try closing out a game against Richmond, or going on with it after hitting the front in the last quarter against Hawks before you start pointing the finger at other clubs, and their last quarter fade-outs. Oh, and last years prelim? Who gives a shit? You lost the flag didn't you, and by a margin a bit larger than 2 points?

The reality is that both Pies and Hawks will have to fight hard for a spot in the top 4, in what so far looks like a much more even top 6 than last year. Given our win over your mob, and our ability to get a lot closer to the cats than you have over your last two clashes, I'd not be feeling too secure if I was you (I suspect it is that insecurity which is driving the disrespect from most Collingwood posters in this thread).

Feel better

 

[Xtreme]

We didn't make the most of our opportunities and it cost us at the final siren.

 

[volcboy]

Hawthorn are a fragile mentally weak team when it comes to playing against the Cats.. Hawthorn lost today because of selfish and trying to be too fancy footy.
Hawthorn will never beat Geelong until the Cats are old and all the played that lost in the 08 GF have gone..
Geelong are not a great side but Hawthorn are great at letting the Cats play like a great side each time they play each other..

Oh really? Where exactly have you been hiding the last five years?

 

[madmug]

Hawthorn are a very good side no doubt. I really think their 'problem' is their game plan. They play very hard aggressive footy from the first bounce & try to smash sides early on. Trouble is that when you play a side that can take the physical stuff then come the last quarter the Hawks have spent all their petrol tickets & have nothing left to give. Last years prelim & yesterday show that.
Hawks will play deep into the finals in 2012. But they will need to play more tempo footy, (& find some more defenders perhaps) to win the last game. IMO

 

[Uncle Ted]

What about Cyril

 

[year of the cat]

This thread started off well.

An opposition supporter tried to bait Hawthorn supporters into giving excuses for the loss, but they weren't coming.
Now the Collingwood supporters turn up to tell us all about how they should've won last week, and we're about 5posts away from the entire thread degrading into a "player a, b and c are in our best 22, and better than your players e,f and g.

Meh.

Geelong won what we should've....again. Bring on Round 19.

Funny - have heard that one for the past 3 or 4 years now.....as you say bring on round 19 and we (in the immortal words of Paul Keating) "will do you slowly". More fun that way..

 

[hk89]

Hawthorn are a very good side no doubt. I really think their 'problem' is their game plan. They play very hard aggressive footy from the first bounce & try to smash sides early on. Trouble is that when you play a side that can take the physical stuff then come the last quarter the Hawks have spent all their petrol tickets & have nothing left to give. Last years prelim & yesterday show that.

I think that is fair analysis in terms of the prelim, and some of our previous capitulations against the cats. Really don't agree it was the problem yesterday. If we'd converted at the same rate as cats did in the last quarter , we'd have won. While you could argue that the conversion rate was down due to tired legs, most of the misses seemed to be more about brain fades. I think mental fragility against Geelong was a more likely reason than petrol tickets in that particular game. Geelong have our mental measure, they know it, the Hawk's players know it.

If you look at who had the running at the business end in the Pies game last week, I think we might have somewhat addressed the fatigue related fade-out issues (although before our final burst, you guys did get back in front earlier in the last quarter, so perhaps there is more work to be done there...).