Autopsy Hawthorn loses to Brisbane Lions

[Laurie Bingham]

Forgive me if I'm stating the obvious but I reckon purely in terms of elite talent producing consistently, we are bottom 4 (this year).

Tom Mitchell - tick
Jack Gunson - tick

Roughy & Silk are elite talent but past their best.

Burton has the talent but has been ordinary so far this year.

Hardwick could be elite talent-wise but too early in his career. Ditto Morrison. Sicily is elite talent but still too undisciplined.

Isaac Smith ? Maybe a smidge below elite. McEvoy magnificent trier, a little below elite. Cyril too injured. Birch likewise. Am I missing anyone ?

We need elite talent all over the ground to grt back to challenge. The quick fix would be to go after Lynch, McGovern and trade Burton to SA if we could get a couple of first rounders and go hard for elite mids in the draft to help out T Mitch.

This may sound like a doom and gloom post but it's not More than happy to give Lovell, O'Rourke, Worpel and Lewis extended stints in the ones to try to determine what their ceilings are. And if we don't go for a "big fish" free agent remedy our elite talent deficit over the next 2-3 drafts and start seriously contending in 2022. Or thereabouts.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

You’ve got no idea mate.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Another quality input. Thanks for stopping by.

 

[SA HAWK]

He hasn't been as good as last year for sure, but he's 21 and played 32 games. Some of the whacks he's copping of these threads are OTT

Weitering & Schache were the no 1 & 2 picks from the same draft are going through the same thing.

He will turn it around.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Forgive me if I'm stating the obvious but I reckon purely in terms of elite talent producing consistently, we are bottom 4 (this year).

Tom Mitchell - tick
Jack Gunson - tick

Roughy & Silk are elite talent but past their best.

Burton has the talent but has been ordinary so far this year.

Hardwick could be elite talent-wise but too early in his career. Ditto Morrison. Sicily is elite talent but still too undisciplined.

Isaac Smith ? Maybe a smidge below elite. McEvoy magnificent trier, a little below elite. Cyril too injured. Birch likewise. Am I missing anyone ?

We need elite talent all over the ground to grt back to challenge. The quick fix would be to go after Lynch, McGovern and trade Burton to SA if we could get a couple of first rounders and go hard for elite mids in the draft to help out T Mitch.

This may sound like a doom and gloom post but it's not More than happy to give Lovell, O'Rourke, Worpel and Lewis extended stints in the ones to try to determine what their ceilings are. And if we don't go for a "big fish" free agent remedy our elite talent deficit over the next 2-3 drafts and start seriously contending in 2022. Or thereabouts.

Breust, for his position, is elite and producing results this year.

 

[TylerDurden]

We got some good young kids in Sis, Burton, Hardwick and Harry.
Hopeful on Lewis -great to see a 19 year old KPF given an opportunity.
Also like what I see in Cuz - need to get games into him.
Worpel - early days but definitely a bit to like.

I wouldn’t be surprised if we turnover upto a dozen players from our list in the next 2 years.
We got a lot of decisions to make on some players that jyst might not be good enough

All is not lost.....just need to prioritise the future rather than playing just for the now.

That’s my point. Play the kids now to find out about the list.

We’re going to need the depth of this list, coz a massive turnover is looming. Both retirements and delistings. In fact, it started 2 years ago.

 

[TylerDurden]

Breust, for his position, is elite and producing results this year.

Mitch, Breust, Smith and Sicily are all elite. Gunston not far behind. JOM has potential to be.

 

[tige19]

Mitch, Breust, Smith and Sicily are all elite. Gunston not far behind. JOM has potential to be.

Do we even know if Jags will be back this week?

 

[threesixpio]

God you so much as fart near the Swines board and you get a day ban

 

[threesixpio]

Do we even know if Jags will be back this week?

C’mon man.

 

[Jack Gun Cyril Stun]

It was chip chip chip chip our way until a long kick to a crowded pack in our F50. Pure safety first garbage.

Yep, and we persist with it

 

[Rioli magic]

Do we even know if Jags will be back this week?

We don’t even know.

 

[sohsam]

Well I feel in our recruiting of Mitchell and O'Meara, we have kind of hitched our wagon to be aiming to be a contender sooner rather then later. Don't get me wrong, both are still young and have plenty of great football for HFC ahead of them.

The problem as I see the current list as it: If we can't be contenders with Gunston, Breust, McEvoy, Smith, Shiels and Stratton still in their primes, who from our young players will be helping O'Meara and Mitchell when they are 27-28? Perhaps Impey, Sicily, Morrison, Burton and Hardwick. But it's still very short of talent.

Perhaps I am upset by the loss. But today kind of highlighted where we are at as a list. At the risk of upsetting many on here, I feel we may start to question not just going down the draft route after 2016.

I think we are way more off it then a Tom Lynch fix.

That is exactly what I have been saying about the Tom Lynch Fix. Rightly or Wrongly Clarko said at his time in Port Adelaide things can turn quickly for the worst, affect memberships etc to bottom out, hence logic of getting T Mitchell / JOM to at least be competitive.

 

[Zack]

Probably the most obvious "surprise" victory since Fine Cotton saluted.

I implored my betting ppl I know to take Brisbane in their multi's after the Thursday Night selection, (Name one time a player has ever got coaches votes and been dropped the week after? Not injured or anything but dropped first time ever in AFL history I would think) at half time I said take 40+ line. If you can still get it above Winx rates.

I don't feel bad about our performance, this was a fait accompli seemingly starting with the Monday morning meeting. It worries me far more that it started on that day and showed in selection.

 

[Mappa]

123 - 48 since about 10 mins through the first q. Seems like fagan made some simple adjustments and that was it. This is now as bad as those early loses last year. Last week we were 5 minutes away from looking like a top 4 team now we are clearly the 2nd worst side in the comp.

and based on today, we are not safe against them either.

Tom Lynch, Josh Kennedy and Taylor Walker wouldn't have taken a single mark inside 50 today combined today. The gameplan and delivery into our forwardline was laughable, atrocious, deplorable and puzzling in equal measures.

As someone said, "stick a fork in us". I'm not one to get caught up in hyperbole too often, but today I am throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Today was the Hawthorn we have to expect for the foreseeable future. We'll see glimpses where we say "we are back" and "that's better", but this has got a distinct 1993 onwards feel about it.

 

[Thaihawk]

IPs don't mean much with VPNs these days. Based on what was posted it's someone that doesn't have a main account, they pop up from time to time on team boards posting photos of toilets, get banned, wait a while then do it again.

I for one am grateful you got him/her Gralin. I am going through a horrific period in my life with my wife, who has been battling cancer for more than a year now, and is regressing ever so slowly. We don't need posters like that, and if she/he has an alias it would ne nice to know that gets banned too.

 

[lickmerocks]

I honestly thought the $3 I got on the Lions was the easiest money I ever made. Lions had been really good the past few weeks and we have been average and had made 6 changes playing on there home turf. The result was exactly what I expected so not really sure why the blow up on here.

Mitchell Impey and Gunston were fantastic and really gave it a crack for us.

The rest were fairly ordinary but I still believe the changes that were made were necessary and the right ones except for Duryea who we need to move on from.

 

[sohsam]

Honestly, it's not about where we are now anymore. Brisbane are now 1 - 8 and I would much prefer their list entering 2019.

By no means am I cracking in on Mitchell, O'Meara or even the decision to recruit them. However, it doesn't stop me from wondering if this was the best long term decision?

I don't have a crystal ball. But we need to be contending in 3 - 5 years. In 5 years Mitchell and O'Meara will be 30. We need to get a lot of talent through the club in that time and finishing 8th, 9th or 10th isn't a great result.

As I said that was the whole idea, Clarko did not want HFC to bottom out, so first hand evidence that wheels can really fall off at Port Adelaide affect mood of club, supporters and be competitive, having Mitchell/O'Meara helps that cause but means we will probably not get top picks for 3-4 years. To go down the tracks of what you are saying, you retire legends of game and trade out any remaining top players like Gunston/Bruest for top picks. However, getting top picks for 3-5 years does not guarantee being in premiership window, I guess every other team is trying to win premiership.

 

[tige19]

C’mon man.

Is it really that obscure of a question to ask? Really, is it? I mean he has a clean history of health right?

 

[Roughie]

The whinging about bombing on our forwards heads is becoming ridiculous. Whilst you may see it as frustrating We’ve done this for atleast two years. We aren’t seeking a contested mark upon the deep bomb but we are looking for a stoppage, a free kick or a rushed kick from the opposition that hits the zone we have set up 70 metres out. Thus why it’s ussually a slower build up before the high kick forward. When we force a turnover we then spot up a lead or switch it against an out of position opposition to the open side of the forward 50. It’s no coincidence we are the best team at stopping rebound 50s and in turn score off their turn overs. Whilst it may seem frustrating at times the team will not honour a 50/50 lead if we don’t have numbers to either pressure or we haven’t zoned behind the ball.

I don’t know if everyone remembers during 2006 to even 2010 how many times teams would rebound on us hard to spot up their forward on the rebound with 20 metres space! We would be trying to zone and slow down teams who weren’t used to working through that web but if we couldn’t set up it the opposition would rebound and kick to an uncontested mark 30 metres out against us. This happened many of times if we couldn’t slow their movement starting from our forward entry. Our ball movement and structure is based around covering a turn over. Whilst we go forward we are ensuring our midfield has set a wall up and we have a Zone to roll back and help defence. Our whole structure since Clarkson has been coach is to team defend upfield to cover the lack of one on one defensive capabilities of our defenders. Like Dawson Frawley brand

Would I love us to try use Gunston as a pure full forward and lead out like Ben Brown does of course! The problem is if we try move the ball quick and honour his lead teams will have players already guarding space for Gunners to lead to. Leaving us out numbered on the deck, they rebound, overlap, use their numbers to move it quickly and doesn’t allow us to pressure them either in the midfield or get people back to support either Frawley or Brand by guarding space.

Clarkson has played this same structure for a long time. If our midfield were dominate enough in the centre clearances and had elite disposal efficiency for us to kick to a lead up full forward with gloves for hands then we would be doing it. Our structure while may be frustrating is based around slowing down ball movement and supporting our key defenders with numbers by guarding space.

Regardless whilst you may be pissed off with how we currently enter our forward fifty. Just know we don’t have 1 key forward who we can trust to take a contested lead up with confidence to hold the mark. The game plan would certainly look more damaging if we had a fully fit rioli, and Puopolo providing tackle pressure from the jump

 

[lickmerocks]

Yep, and we persist with it

This is the biggest worry for me. We talk about all these coach’s we have but you either start to move the ball quickly and give your forwards a chance or you are cooked.

This slow methodical keepings off we try and play where we go backwards, sideways and get ourselves to about 70 out from goal and then bomb it in to crowded forward line and hope someone might take a screamer is laughable.

The amount of times I find myself saying/screaming “Move the effing Ball” is beyond a joke.

We should bring in a 3 second rule with ball in hand, move it on or get off the ground and go back to Box Hill.

 

[Walshawk]

Our structures have fallen apart.
Lewis - not ready
Warpol - not ready
Brand - his main defensive weapon is to hold his opponent and hope the ump misses it. No other option unfortunately.
Burgoyne has lost pace and agility and can’t get near it.
Hardwick is hard as nails, enjoyed his game.

 

[threesixpio]

Is it really that obscure of a question to ask? Really, is it? I mean he has a clean history of health right?

You’re clutching at disaster straws

I ask you - is it that obscure for someone to get a corky? Really, is it?

 

[Roughie]

Is it just me or has Burton plateaued or regressed slightly this season?

I think that they need to move him out of the backline. He covers his opponent well but doesnt provide enough offensively. Burton needs to rotate between the Centre square and playing as a high leading forward flank. His disposal by foot is wasted in the backline especially when they are short side ways bail out kicks. Sici

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Yuck. Still so flat.

10 minutes to go last week and we were looking very likely to be 7-2 after 9 rounds, which is position A for top 4.

Now 5-4 and in freefall after being thrashed by a previously winless team.

 

[tige19]

You’re clutching at disaster straws

I ask you - is it that obscure for someone to get a corky? Really, is it?

Nope but it's rare that you miss weeks, and it wouldn't be a concern if we didn't have a whole 2017 of propaganda crap from the club regarding his status.