Autopsy Hawthorn loses to Brisbane Lions

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

We had a very young team in and the Lions played incredibly well.

I hope we still give youngsters game time this year.

 

[H2F]

We have 15 role players playing roles they're not suited to. The other 7 are stars who need help from the role players, but can't get it because they're struggling to play a role they're not suited to.

Game play, or using the buzz word 'structures', need to be changed. We don't have elites on every line that can play multiple roles and the structures don't hold up to modern football nor a side of non-elite role players.

This is absolutely 100 percent bang on and Clarko surely must be realising it now.

Our defence has been useless all season and we are last in rebound 50’s. Add to this the fact we have struggled all year to take a mark in our forward 50 and we wonder why the team is getting worse each week. They have to believe in the structure and they need a leadership group setting the standards. When was the last time a Hawthorn side got flogged without our senior guys at least having one red hit dip to try and turn it around. Only Burgoyne did that today. I also am frustrated that our leaders are allowing constant poor efforts by players like Burton. Hodge would have sorted this out as soon as his show pony half efforts started. I’m pissed off because this was coming for weeks but I’m hopeful now we will actually take some action because we started so well and can fix this if we get angry Clarko back on this like he no doubt will.

It all starts with the leadership group. I wanna see them loud and cracking in hard. I also want to see them owning a new structure because this one isn’t working.

FFS Duryea has to go sorry. I don’t like bashing players but he is unbelievably bad and it cant go on.

 

[SA HAWK]

We had a very young team in and the Lions played incredibly well.

I hope we still give youngsters game time this year.

Lions did play well but were older and more experienced than them.

 

[Off The Couch]

Who is the leadership group
Ruff
Smith
Shiels
???

 

[H2F]

Who is the leadership group
Ruff
Smith
Shiels
???

Exactly my point.

Who freaking knows.

 

[VandoHawk]

Who is the leadership group
Ruff
Smith
Shiels
???

Roughead is the captain, Sheils and Smith VC. Ben Stratton and Jack Gunston in leadership group.

Which is weird, because I feel like Tom Mitchell and Ben McEvoy are the only two players that always put their bodies on the line and lead from the front. Gunners and Stratts aren't the type of guys I think of to lead a charge into battle.

 

[Off The Couch]

On a side note: I very rarely take any notice of anything Jon Ralph says but today he spoke of how angry Clarko looked and it wouldn’t have helped that it was Brisbane as he was far from happy about Hodge coming out of retirement and going to Brisbane

I wonder if there’s any truth to that

 

[CLASS OF JARMAN]

100% this. Last week it was 'bring in Brand', 'why was Cousins dropped?' now this week it will be 'bring JOR in'. At absolute best these fringe types are bottom 6 players in a good side. It's back to the top end of the draft for mine.

Agree to this. Flew up to this game and what a mess, a complete waste of money.
We were flat, not up for a fight at all - no grunt at all. We looked very boyish, these kids getting pushed off the ball easily, we did a lot of crappy handballs, over hand-balled a lot to other players under the pump.
Maybe the best option is to bring in Cegs and play Big Boy up forward permanently or at least 50% of the time. At least he can take a mark regardless of how many people around him. How many times have we seen Big Boy in a huge pack pull down a big mark. He does this a lot I would say. And at least he can kick straight as well. At least everytime we just bomb it forward we know that some one at least can mark it. Thats what we seem to be doing nowadays.... just bombing it forward without the slice and dice approach we used to take. If we are going to keep playing this long bombing game - then we need someone up there who can take a pack mark and Big Boy is about the only one in our side that can do that regularly.
Shoey has to come back and play down back - just before he done his knee he was becoming really good in that position and now he doesnt get pushed around much since he bulked up. He knows our structures well, why we dont just give him 10-12 games in a row really concerns me.
We looked very "young kids not really doing much", running around but not really impacting the contest.
Missing Rioli bad, that kids touches it 15 times and the impact is huge.
Our other players touch it 15 times and you wouldnt even think they we on the park.
The big wrap was on Mitch Lewis fell flat, just another young kid looking like he didnt know the structures and besides from an early assist didnt seem to do anything. Should have been making some leads but seems to hang around Roughie and others up forward and crowd their space which forces an upfield kick straight to that pack.
Poppy looked underdone, needed a run in the VFL.
Clarko panicked after last week, brought the kids in and we got smashed by the bottom team by HEAPS.
Lets not forget that - this was not a 2 goal loss to a top 4 side like Sydney - this was a smashing from the bottom team. So dropping WhiteX and Langers doesnt look that good now. I will say it again - we got smashed by the team on the bottom of the ladder who were winless.
Anyone with a Tattoo in the Brisbane side never received a strong tackle it seemed, our kids didnt want to try those guys on. We seem to keep bringing in these Duryea types who look like they blow dry their hair just before a match .
The game was a mess full stop and I would dare say our worst loss since we got smashed by GWS a few years back - Ive seen a lot of Hawks live games and followed them all over the Country for 30 years now and Im not just a couch potato offering comments from a TV viewing - I try and see most games live and this was a really bad loss. Our defense has never recovered from Lakes retirement, we get manhandled all the time by the opposing gorilla forwards now and the forward line just needs Rioli back full stop to add the class that is missing. Gunston should never ever ever be playing anywhere except in the forward line because Im sick of seeing wanna be forwards trying hard but not have the class and poise that Gunners has without even thinking.
Instead of consolidating top 4 we slide out of the 8 ... just gutted today hopefully next week we get the grunt back.

 

[SA HAWK]

Shoey has to come back and play down back - just before he done his knee he was becoming really good in that position and now he doesnt get pushed around much since he bulked up. He knows our structures well, why we dont just give him 10-12 games in a row really concerns me.

Last time he played full back was against GWS in 2015 when had 7 kicked on him and cost us the game i doubt we will ever see him back there again.

He was never very good down back.

 

[crazywildhorse]

Brisbane were bound to win one like this eventually, they’ve been better than their record and it happens every year. It sucks that it was us though.

We should know more about where the team is at next week...

 

[SA HAWK]

Brisbane were bound to win one like this eventually, they’ve been better than their record and it happens every year. It sucks that it was us though.

We should know more about where the team is at next week...

It is the way we lost more than the fact we lost that was concerning.

I tipped us to lose but thought it would be a competitive game.

 

[William Wonka]

Last time he played full back was against GWS in 2015 when had 7 kicked on him and cost us the game i doubt we will ever see him back there again.

He was never very good down back.

I dearly hope you are right.
If he ever goes near our backline Hardwick should run up and slap him repeatedly until he leaves.
However I would like to see him playing high half foward.

 

[CLASS OF JARMAN]

This is basically the team many on this board has been demanding all year, maybe with Ceglar and orourke in for Doc and whoever. Hopefully this puts to rest some of those theories.

Regardless, I’ve never heard of a team winning after so many changes, and had tipped Brisbane as a result. I didn’t think we’d be pantsed the way we were though.

Looked awful across the backline (felt like Brisbane were going to score with every entry) and missed Frawley big time. Yes his disposal is sloppy but his positioning is infinitely better than Brands. The reality is though the game was lost in our forward half. When the ball rebounds out of our half as quickly as that today then it’s too hard to contain scoring. Same thing happened against Sydney.

Yes - people wanted this team but look what happened - smashed by the bottom team. Lets drop the JOR and the Cousins this, Cousins that comments, Mirra takes a mark, needs 30 secs to sum up the situation and then does a dinky 15m pass backwards. Duryea needing to always take those extra 2 steps to straighten himself and then getting caught with the ball is getting very tiring to watch year after year. Someone needs to show that kid how to throw the ball on the boot sometimes. Brand needs to learn how to stop giving away so many free kicks for holding on all the time or letting how trailing arm just flail on whoever whenever all the time. Morrison seems to touch the ball 30 times a game but Im undecided if the touches are that valuable, least he runs and makes position which I give him credit for trying hard. A lot of Hawks seem to be on the back foot a lot and not wanting to run and find space anymore.

 

[Aramis]

Who is the leadership group
Ruff
Smith
Shiels
???

Exactly my point.

Who freaking knows.

Exactly the point.... Yeh they have the titles.. but wheres the presence!

All 3 of them are quiet achievers and Smith isn't really someone I attribute with the word leader.
Roughy is quite simply not captain material, yes it was great he came back from cancer and it was really romantic having him captain but he isn't providing what we need in a captain.

 

[Billy Bob65]

Commiserations on the loss.

Here are your starting midfield stats for the game.

For those that haven't seen this before, I keep a running tally of the starting 5 mids (3 inside + wings) for each centre bounce.

NB> Nothing after the number indicates all starts were as an inside mid.

There were 33 centre bounces for the game

Mitchell 31
Shiels 27 (3w)
Henderson 24 wing
Burton 15 wing
Impey 14
Morrison 11 wing
Cousins (inj) 9 (2w)
Burgoyne 9 (1w)
Worpel 7
Smith 7 (6w, 1i)
Puopolo 4
Breust 3
Gunston 3 wing

And the starting rucks:
McEvoy 27
Lewis 4
Roughead 2

Notes:
- Smith mainly started off the back of the square
- Before getting concussed, Cousins was on track to end up in the top 6 mids for the first time this season - a big increase on the St Kilda game where he had only 6 starts for the full 4 Qs.
- Morrison played the first half as one of 3 alternating wingers, before Burgoyne replaced him in the midfield mix for the 2nd half - Morrison took his spot in the back half
- Impey played the first half as an inside mid, but aside from the final 3 bounces of the game he barely saw any other midfield time in the 2nd half
- I didn't analyse your Rd 7 game, but Worpel had a dramatic increase in midfield time compared to the St Kilda game where he didn't get a single rotation

 

[MasterSamurai]

I just wanna know why brand feels the need to grab oppositions jumper every time he’s in a one on one situation??
We do have a defense coach right? Or is that a fallacy and that we cannot develop a marking, unpanicking kpd to save ourselves!!! Lake is sorely missed, we need May from GC more than Lynch!

 

[H2F]

The way Brisbane ran it into their forward fifty with no pressure Lake would have been destroyed.

Brand is the whipping boy for awful effort.

 

[CLASS OF JARMAN]

I was out all of today, so this became the first game in years that I didn't get to watch live in person or on TV. I managed to avoid any news about the game and was about to sit down and start the replay when my phone (Hawks official app) alerted me to the full time score.

I have to say, I've never been more happy to have a game's result spoiled for me. It saved me from spending 2 hours being frustrated and sad.

So what happened guys and gals? Other than the score board the only stat they seemed to dominate over us was marks inside 50. Stats also seem to suggest a lot of our players had decent to good games. So was Brisbane just that much better, or do the player stats deceive and we were actually pretty shit?

Nah - we just handball back and forth to each other over and over again ........ all the while whilst Brissie gets their defence sorted. Once our boys have the required stats racked up, they then just bomb it long to a forward line that hasnt taken a contested mark since Derimie days ..... and we all know how that long bomb finishes up like.

 

[SSSSSS]

We are a team without a proper midfield and a spine. What we do have are a decent set of flankers. Lots of icing but no cake.

 

[Happy_Hawker]

The way Brisbane ran it into their forward fifty with no pressure Lake would have been destroyed.

Brand is the whipping boy for awful effort.

Good call. Brand was bad but if you turn it over in F50 and your midfield are pressing up but the ball gets out defenders are going to be isolated one on one, and they were taking contested marks around the ground. Our forward delivery and ball movement was reminiscent of bombers against us - several handpasses for little gain, poor kicking - we couldn't deal with their pressure. Our ground structure needs changing so that it becomes less predictable, because now when the oppo gets the ball in our F50 they seem to rebound it too easily. We need to do more aggressive handballing through the zone if the oppo cut off the switch as they did today.

Desperately need someone who can halve contests, Clarko mentioned it that we were killed in the air - they get contested marks in the middle, it opens up the game for them.

Their disposal was far sharper than ours as well.

Think we don't pressure oppo teams enough, they had too much space to dispose, so their kicks in the nidfield weren't turned over, they don't need as many inside 50s because their kicks are from such attacking positions in the midfield (+ open forward line = defender has very little chance).

 

[Alite]

I would actually like us to develop our own stars like we used to do instead of trying to pinch other clubs.

No pinching would = a 4 year rebuild. No thanks
We don’t have a full back on our list.

 

[Alite]

I just wanna know why brand feels the need to grab oppositions jumper every time he’s in a one on one situation??
We do have a defense coach right? Or is that a fallacy and that we cannot develop a marking, unpanicking kpd to save ourselves!!! Lake is sorely missed, we need May from GC more than Lynch!

Brand did not need to touch Hipwood while he juggled the mark. If Brand just went at the ball he would have 1/2ed the contest.
Lake is well loved but gone. Our only hope is Nash

 

[threesixpio]

I do agree the entry becomes repetitive and predictable. And I would also love to see us honour some leads or atleast posses the ball from around 80m out and have McEvoy or Roughie sit 10m out from the goals so they are deep enough to have the oppositions attention and then we can try drop a midfield lead in to the opened space in the forward line:

I just think Clarko right now has us playing a game plan to try not expose how weak we are defensively where as our forward line is our clear strength. You are right maybe Clarkson should bite the bullet and let us get in shoot outs with teams because our forward line depth can out score the majority of the teams in the league

I do remember the occasional clunking of marks dead centre in the forward 50 by Hale and the like leading to goals. It’s not like we never did it. And mixing it up keeps the opposition on its toes

 

[TylerDurden]

I’ve been saying it all year. If Lynch has chosen us, then we’ll make it happen. We need everything, and a key forward is right up there. Rough is finished and we have nothing else coming up in the short term.

There is no short term fix here. Having said that, a 10 goal thrashing to Brisbane is pathetic. It’s a fork in the road moment. In our favour is that we have the best coach of the modern era. If anyone can navigate the stormy waters, it’s him.

 

[threesixpio]

Brand did not need to touch Hipwood while he juggled the mark. If Brand just went at the ball he would have 1/2ed the contest.
Lake is well loved but gone. Our only hope is Nash

Isn’t Nash a forward these days?