Autopsy Hawthorn loses to Brisbane Lions

[threesixpio]

Roughead is the captain, Sheils and Smith VC. Ben Stratton and Jack Gunston in leadership group.

Which is weird, because I feel like Tom Mitchell and Ben McEvoy are the only two players that always put their bodies on the line and lead from the front. Gunners and Stratts aren't the type of guys I think of to lead a charge into battle.

Hmm. I think Tom and B.B. could be added but Gunner and Strats have been great this year

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Hmm. I think Tom and B.B. could be added but Gunner and Strats have been great this year

This

I do think mcEvoy should be captain.
We are at the stage where we need a lead from the front captain, rather than a best clubman/off field one

 

[drviccles]

I want to put this game out of my mind...forever.

 

[OnceKicked50]

OneKicked: we don’t have a premiership team. Clarko, Robbo (horrid reporter) and my dog knows that. Woof.
Consider the age of the players recruited.
We are on a slow run up to something special. The key point is slow for now. Give our coaches time to create and meld a new team and you will enjoy the results.

For now, Worpel’s centre clearance and Lewis competing well sustains me.

I think you have missed my point Alite.

In five seasons time Mitchell and O'Meara will be 29/30. Likley, Gunston, Smith, Rioli, Bruest and Stratton will be gone.

Aside from Sicily and perhaps Burton, there is no guarantee any of our kids will reach the levels of Gunston, Smith ect. Please don't think this as a negative post, but as supporters we can see things through rose coloured glasses at times.

The odds of Worpel, Morrison, Lewis, Howe, Cousins and Hanrahan becoming high quality players is low. Maybe one/two do, but they were low picks for a reason.

In creating/melding a new team as you speak, a slow burn premiership contender over the next 5 years, we are going to obviously need to bring in high quality young talent. Mitchell, O'Meara, Impey, Hardwick, Sicily and Burton alone isn't enough.

As it stands, I can't see the current list every finishing bottom 4. And, as you rightly mentioned we are not a premiership contender. We are in that really difficult space when you enter the draft at pick 10.

This isn't a slight on this great club and the people in charge. It's just a reality. You need to hit the draft to contend.

 

[Bumps"N"Grins]

I just wanna know why brand feels the need to grab oppositions jumper every time he’s in a one on one situation??
We do have a defense coach right? Or is that a fallacy and that we cannot develop a marking, unpanicking kpd to save ourselves!!! Lake is sorely missed, we need May from GC more than Lynch!

I'll tell you what good and great defenders do that holds them in good stead time and time again and that is if they lose touch on their opponent they play to win or kill the ball, go where the ball is and a forward being a forward will find you at the same spot. Effing sick of defenders scrambling around trying to find touch and not knowing where the ball or their opponent is, follow the ball and you find your forward. This will hold true now and in fifty years from now, it is the one thing that will never change.

 

[hk89]

I don't understand why Brand is seen as suddenly not AFL quality this year after his first game back against a player who is likely going to be one of the best forwards in the competition. Brand is not a star defender, and IMO is not better value than Frawley at the moment, but one poor game against the likes of Hipwood shouldn't get his papers stamped. Seemed to be an ok one-on-one defender last year when he got a few games in a row. This doesn't mean he'll win every contest, and will not have games where his opponent gets the better of him - he's not Lake , or even Frawley, but he's still developing and shouldn't be thrown under the bus at this stage.

 

[TylerDurden]

Put that on the team review board today. It’s gotta farken hurt.

 

[tige19]

Are you a doctor of medicine who specialises in knee injuries who has examined JOM's knee up close and his scans...or talking through your a-hole. because it does sound a lot like the latter

Don't need to be a doctor to research the history patella injuries in professional sports.. facts are facts, if you don't like it put your head into the sand sunshine.

 

[TylerDurden]

Agree re Brand. Has to keep playing. Was good last year after a block of games. Frawley’s taking us back and has lost the hunger. He’s mentally shot. Move on.

 

[tige19]

I'm not an NFL expert, but from what I've seen it is a game with very narrow roles, and the types and skill sets that excel in each role are equally narrow. I don't think AFL is like that. You have players like Sam Mitchell and Dangerfield both winning Brownlow medals playing midfield, despite being worlds apart in physical attributes. Players can excel in the middle without high end pace in a way that a tight end , running back, wide receiver etc can't, so injuries that take away pace are not necessarily a death knell for an AFL players unless they have no other positive attributes.

Then there is the assumption that JOM has definitely lost his explosive pace, which I'm not sure is necessarily true. Seemed to be putting up some fairly high peak speed numbers on GPS on the ground in some games this year - just not doing it that often for whatever reason (perhaps nearly 3 years out of the game might be a reason).

Yeah you're spot on in every sense, legitimately solid post.

I suppose the concern is the ability for Jags to sustain his high intense, sharp efforts and keep his body in tact. What separated Jags in his 1st few seasons was his athletic superiority, he could break tackles with pure power and elite explosiveness, he never really had the line drive type of elite kicking. He is a decent disposer of the footy, he is very good in close with his hands but he was always super elite at breaking away from stoppages with power and opening up the game through this trait.

That's why I refer back to the Liam Shiels comparisons (which isn't a negative), I feel that is the type of player we are likely to have long term the more I see of him.

 

[MC_9]

2 games at the Gabba in the last 10 years and they produce that crap. So disappointing.

So many so flat. However it does feel like more a tweak to the game plan will put us back on track. We are winning the key stats, but not converting that into an sort of scoreboard pressure.

The backline is real cause for concern, we are just scored against so easily. We need to fix up our defensive structures to cover our deficiencies.

Brand also showed his all of his weaknesses yesterday. He just worries about his opponent way to much. The second the ball is in the air, don't worry about your man. Just go for the ball.

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[lethalselbow]

I don't understand why Brand is seen as suddenly not AFL quality this year after his first game back against a player who is likely going to be one of the best forwards in the competition. Brand is not a star defender, and IMO is not better value than Frawley at the moment, but one poor game against the likes of Hipwood shouldn't get his papers stamped. Seemed to be an ok one-on-one defender last year when he got a few games in a row. This doesn't mean he'll win every contest, and will not have games where his opponent gets the better of him - he's not Lake , or even Frawley, but he's still developing and shouldn't be thrown under the bus at this stage.

Seemed to stamp the papers for this young man.

We live in an age of instant gratification. If coaches listed to most of the puntes on bigfooty, we'd have 6 out of the side every other week.

 

[lethalselbow]

Did Clarkson have a similar game last season, where he omitted so many players and it actually worked? Turning over 1/4 of the team is never a good thing and was surprised, and still surprised, he did it after an okay showing against Sydney.

Have the feeling that Clarkson knows the side isn't much chop and it's just another building year.

 

[hk89]

I think people should try to remember that a lot of the enthusiasm for how we'd go this year was based on getting Rioli, Birchall, Frawley, O'Meara, Stratton, Poppy and Ceglar back into the side.

Of those 7 players only 2 played on the weekend, and one of those 2 was having his first game back from injury. We also hoped we'd get some natural improvement from Burton in his second full year in the system, but unfortunately he's gone backwards so far. While it is easy to panic after losing to a team that had been lossless after the first 8 rounds, we still have some quality to come back into the side that got embarrassed yesterday. We also have some improvement in many of the players that were on the field. Some are raw youngsters so will get natural improvement with more games, others were out of form, some were both, like Burton.

Personally , I'm more annoyed with the selection committee than anything else. This was an obvious danger game, made much more dangerous by throwing in a very unsettled side. Will be interesting to see what happens next week. We desperately need to keep in touch with the top 8 so we can hang on until some of the players we hoped would be back on the park this year are actually back on the park. We do have depth at Box Hill - only percentage off top of the ladder, but we need to better balance development and experience in the senior side. Clarko usually does a good job of this, and usually errs on the side of experience over youth. I'm not sure why he blinked on the weekend and went with as many kids as he did. Seemed liked a total knee-jerk reaction to an 8 point loss, and out of character for Clarko.

I also think its been easy to underestimate the impact of not having Rioli in the side has had. I think it it pretty clear we spent the offseason training a game plan that relied on sacrificing defensive structure for more attack, and while Rioli and Poppy were both in the side, that worked fairly well. We were leaking a few goals, but generally outscoring our opponents. We are still leaking goals, but our own goals are not coming as freely despite getting the ball within the scoring zone pretty frequently. I was hoping Clarko would adapt better to not having his main two pressure forwards in the side, but I guess it is hard to move away from a game plan that you've spent the entire pre-season honing. Still time to turn things around, and none of the injuries we have so far are season ending, which gives room for hope.

 

[lethalselbow]

2 games at the Gabba in the last 10 years and they produce that crap. So disappointing.

So many so flat. However it does feel like more a tweak to the game plan will put us back on track. We are winning the key stats, but not converting that into an sort of scoreboard pressure.

The backline is real cause for concern, we are just scored against so easily. We need to fix up our defensive structures to cover our deficiencies.

Brand also showed his all of his weaknesses yesterday. He just worries about his opponent way to much. The second the ball is in the air, don't worry about your man. Just go for the ball.

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I reckon the midfield is the problem and offers no support for the backline. If the ball keeps coming down so easily, what can you do?

 

[thejockey]

Parfitt was bog a few weeks back and looks a great type.

Henry was a rising star nominee a few weeks ago & Ratugolea looks a likely type as well.

They’ve got some good young players but no more then most other teams
I think they’ll drop down the ladder from next season ie this is there last shot at winning a flag for a while

 

[OnTheRocks]

A loss to the lions was not unexpected but the ease in how they beat us was.
The team looks like it is playing without any continuity due to the squad being unsettled. Changing the side every game when you don't have a soldier to replace a soldier but only have fodder in the waiting is exposing our vulnerabilities.
Not sure if it is due to the lack of not playing in the 1sts for Mirra or those that are in and out of the side too but his decision making at times is not very helpful in setting up plays.
Burton

He is so very disappointing this year and watching him jog up and down the wings doing about as much as those sitting on the bench is a massive factor in why our defense is playing poorly. His form needs to turn around and quickly if he wants to play like who he said that he wanted to base his game on.
He is no where near the standard of N Fyfe atm.
Is all the running along the wings to build his tank up?

 

[thejockey]

I just wanna know why brand feels the need to grab oppositions jumper every time he’s in a one on one situation??
We do have a defense coach right? Or is that a fallacy and that we cannot develop a marking, unpanicking kpd to save ourselves!!! Lake is sorely missed, we need May from GC more than Lynch!

9 times out of 10 defenders will do that when they are under pressure whether it’s real or even referred
Looked out of touch and form to me and the way the ball was coming in didn’t help him at all

Even the high quality KPBs would have conceded goals yesterday

 

[OnTheRocks]

I'll tell you what good and great defenders do that holds them in good stead time and time again and that is if they lose touch on their opponent they play to win or kill the ball, go where the ball is and a forward being a forward will find you at the same spot. Effing sick of defenders scrambling around trying to find touch and not knowing where the ball or their opponent is, follow the ball and you find your forward. This will hold true now and in fifty years from now, it is the one thing that will never change.

Too true. Sometimes to beat a forward the defender has to think like a forward. That is why Lake and now Sis are good defenders they desire to 1st win the ball and if that seems unlikely then to 2nd nullify the ball then try to win the ball again, if that doesn't ir won't work they kill the ball. More often they make the ball their priority rather than just spoiling and stopping their opponent. Sis is a play maker and needs to be used wisely.

 

[hk89]

Seemed to stamp the papers for this young man.

Took a while to process the stamps though given he spent the last two years on our list playing for Box Hill. Dawson is a good example of a player that fell out of the good books of the selection panel a little too quickly. Was never going to be a top line defender, but had an adequate career, good enough to play in two other sides that made Grand finals. 4 losing grand finals is an unlucky career.

Brand has had zero development time in the seniors in his first 3 years which was also quite different to Dawson. Not surprising given he would have been competing for Lakes spot, and started getting games as soon as Lake left. Pretty much every time Brand cost goals , I didn't see another defender getting over to help him with Hipwood. In the past, it would have been Gibson getting a fist in to help out with a lot of those contests, but not only is he gone, but the ball is coming in quicker than it had been in recent years, so we are seeing our defence cope with more one-on-ones than they have been used to.

 

[hk89]

That's why I refer back to the Liam Shiels comparisons (which isn't a negative), I feel that is the type of player we are likely to have long term the more I see of him.

I still think there are good signs he'll have more break away pace than Shiels, but time will tell. After last year, you'd be silly not to be nervous about what the "corked calf" means in the context of how he is handling load, but hopefully it is exactly as the club has described and we'll see him back next week.

 

[MrPremiership]

5-4 in 9th position is probably a better representation of where we're at.

Sitting up in the Top 4 earlier this season was a bit of a false dawn.

 

[MasterSamurai]

Brand did not need to touch Hipwood while he juggled the mark. If Brand just went at the ball he would have 1/2ed the contest.
Lake is well loved but gone. Our only hope is Nash

The fact that we put zero pressure after 10 minutes doesn’t help but if a backman reads the ball like a forward then they become extremely difficult to beat. Lake nor Harry Taylor were quick but they didn’t panic when the ball came in deep into a contest, they just played like a forward, follow the play and make the forwards second guess. It’s footy smarts plus a bit of development.

 

[MasterSamurai]

Put that on the team review board today. It’s gotta farken hurt.

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What a legend!! We don’t have a brute leader like him anymore and we’re poorer for it! GUN!!! There’s nothing that can make me hate him other than the fact that he’s wearing those mongrel colors.

 

[tige19]

I still think there are good signs he'll have more break away pace than Shiels, but time will tell. After last year, you'd be silly not to be nervous about what the "corked calf" means in the context of how he is handling load, but hopefully it is exactly as the club has described and we'll see him back next week.

The club isn't exactly renowned for being honest when it comes to players injuries, it's an absolute farce the BS they feed you and we still have people buying it... comical