Scandal Hawthorn player questioned over sexual offence allegation

[Boohemian]

The victim shaming in this thread is disgusting. Nice to see rape culture is alive and well on BigFooty.

 

[landie1]

The victim shaming in this thread is disgusting. Nice to see rape culture is alive and well on BigFooty.

Reminds me of how my husband's attitude changed once I gave birth to our daughter. Now she is 19 and he realises that he wouldn't want her to go out with blokes who were like him once. The perpetual double standard.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[PetterdHoisted]

holy hell, just Binged this and saw that two Hawthorn players and a Hawthorn official were alleged to have r*ped a girl in 1999 in Hawaii, no charges, but the case wasn't even made public till 2004 in Australia!
http://sociologicalimagination.org/archives/929/comment-page-1

For those thirsting for more info on the current Hawthorn allegations, you already know much more than you might have 20 years ago.

media progress?

 

[HairyO]

holy hell, just Binged this and saw that two Hawthorn players and a Hawthorn official were alleged to have r*ped a girl in 1999 in Hawaii, no charges, but the case wasn't even made public till 2004 in Australia!
http://sociologicalimagination.org/archives/929/comment-page-1

For those thirsting for more info on the current Hawthorn allegations, you already know much more than you might have 20 years ago.

media progress?

You reckon the US police helped cover up a crime to protect some people who are moderately famous in another country?

Or is the more likely scenario that the claim simply didnt have enough evidence to back it up, therefore we should assume that the alleged wrong-doers are in fact innocent?

 

[macdaddio]

holy hell, just Binged this and saw that two Hawthorn players and a Hawthorn official were alleged to have r*ped a girl in 1999 in Hawaii, no charges, but the case wasn't even made public till 2004 in Australia!
http://sociologicalimagination.org/archives/929/comment-page-1

For those thirsting for more info on the current Hawthorn allegations, you already know much more than you might have 20 years ago.

media progress?

So no charges and almost 20 years ago and you felt the need to spend hours and hours online looking for something to post in here to make accusations about how corrupt the HFC has been and still is.

If I had as much time as you I would be able to spend more quality time with my family rather then at work...

 

[RICHOLEGEND12]

Incorrect.

Just say a girl goes home with two players and cheats on her boyfriend. She wakes up the next day and realises what she has done. What better way to salvage your relationship and to not have people judge you as a skank than to claim you were r*ped.

Happens a lot more than you realise.

To be honest, I think you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. I'd quit your blind speculating. People saying shit like this, and this common mentality is what causes so many of these cases to be unreported.

 

[PetterdHoisted]

So no chargers

indeed, seems the girl declined to press charges in that case.

not my point though, just interesting to see how the media treats the 2015 incident compared to the 1999 incident.

eerily similar cases in some ways- both girls alleged their drink may have been spiked and they later suffered multiple rapes at the hands of Hawks players or officials.

How many cases involving footballers in the 90s and earlier have we heard nothing about?

 

[landie1]

Not relating to this case/thread but nonetheless relevant to the topic. This was easy to find on the web. I am a busy mum so don't have all day to spend trawling the web. It is a breakdown of AFL/NRL sexual assault allegations recorded in 2005 into categories. I think this was done around the time that they tried to increase awareness about respectful attitudes towards woman. There is a section where the victim's state of consciousness is recorded with several categorised as semi-conscious.....?related to drink spiking/intoxication.
https://www.clearinghouseforsport.g...55140/Towards_Champions_-_appendices_2005.pdf


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Snell1234]

The victim shaming in this thread is disgusting. Nice to see rape culture is alive and well on BigFooty.

No mate. It's gone too far in hanging people before they are found to be guilty. The basic premise of our legal system is innocent until proven guilty. When it comes to rape, if you are accused, the public always believes you to be guilty. No innocence is afforded to the accused because everyone jumps on the side of the alleged victim.

There are numerous instances that I know of where a girl has cried rape due to sleeping with a guy she shouldn't have. Be it because she has a boyfriend, or because she doesn't want to be judged by friends / a community. Instead of taking responsibility for their mistake, they cry rape and ruin an innocent person's life.

I'm adding some balance to the argument where at the moment, we have forgotten the principle of innocent until proven guilty.

 

[BoxMatrix]

No mate. It's gone too far in hanging people before they are found to be guilty. The basic premise of our legal system is innocent until proven guilty. When it comes to rape, if you are accused, the public always believes you to be guilty. No innocence is afforded to the accused because everyone jumps on the side of the alleged victim.

There are numerous instances that I know of where a girl has cried rape due to sleeping with a guy she shouldn't have. Be it because she has a boyfriend, or because she doesn't want to be judged by friends / a community. Instead of taking responsibility for their mistake, they cry rape and ruin an innocent person's life.

I'm adding some balance to the argument where at the moment, we have forgotten the principle of innocent until proven guilty.

You know why people always assume they are guilty? Because we live in a world that will assume that someone is sexist if they don't support the woman who is the alleged victim. Welcome to today's society.

 

[evolutionbaby]

It would appear that all we know for sure is:

1. The investigation is progressing,

2. they haven't yet charged the players with an offence,

3. Police have searched a person's house for evidence,

4. We do not know if anything probative was found,

5. it appears the complainant believes she had her drink spiked at the Mount View Hotel (but we don't know who did it),

6. The complainant, having had her drink spiked, ended up in a cab with two players where she believes she was allegedly assaulted (we presume there will be CCTV footage, but that hasn't been confirmed),

7. the complainant was taken to a house in Ashwood where she claims to have been further assaulted,

8. she was collected from the house by her boyfriend the following morning.

9. She went to police later that morning to complain.

Contrast this to the Milne and Lovett cases - where there was an independent witness (another girl) present in or around the scene to corroborate evidence of almost immediate complaint about the assault. It doesn't seem to be the case here.

Serious sexual assault cases succeed or fail largely on mindset (of both complainant and accused). Circumstantial evidence can assist, and surrounding circumstances will often add weight to a theory of intent to have sex with or without consent of another.

This scenario is very tricky indeed and it's in everyone's interest for the true facts to emerge with the identities of those involved suppressed.

My gut feel is the club will only name players if it becomes apparent that charges will be laid. If I'm right about the above being all the material police currently have to go with, outside statements of the three involved, it's nowhere near that point yet, and may well never get there. So why name someone under investigation of they are ultimately exonerated with no charges being laid?

After reading through a lot of posts here, I think yours is the soundest in relation to the alleged incident.
The investigators will try to establish a time line based on facts and evidence collected. What will influence a determination of the allegations is how thorough the blanks can be filled in. If there are too many based on uncertainity, conjecture or speculation then these allegations may not see the light of day in a court room. For this specific reason no one should be naming names at this stage.

 

[RICHOLEGEND12]

No mate. It's gone too far in hanging people before they are found to be guilty. The basic premise of our legal system is innocent until proven guilty. When it comes to rape, if you are accused, the public always believes you to be guilty. No innocence is afforded to the accused because everyone jumps on the side of the alleged victim.

There are numerous instances that I know of where a girl has cried rape due to sleeping with a guy she shouldn't have. Be it because she has a boyfriend, or because she doesn't want to be judged by friends / a community. Instead of taking responsibility for their mistake, they cry rape and ruin an innocent person's life.

I'm adding some balance to the argument where at the moment, we have forgotten the principle of innocent until proven guilty.

Most people in this thread are not hanging the alleged players out to dry. There has been the odd poster doing that and the main instigator of that has been banned.

You must know a lot of sexual assault cases if you know of "numerous instances" of false claims, seeing as an estimated 2 percent of claims are purported to be false, and even then the process of labelling a claim as "false" is questionable and not black and white. You're blindly speculating and casting aspersions yourself, and in the process furthering a mentality that prevents victims coming forward. Just as bad as blindly labelling the players guilty in my eyes.

 

[HairyO]

You know why people always assume they are guilty? Because we live in a world that will assume that someone is sexist if they don't support the woman who is the alleged victim. Welcome to today's society.

We need only look at how male teachers are treated, especially in Primary School.

 

[Snell1234]

Most people in this thread are not hanging the alleged players out to dry. There has been the odd poster doing that and the main instigator of that has been banned.

You must know a lot of sexual assault cases if you know of "numerous instances" of false claims, seeing as an estimated 2 percent of claims are purported to be false, and even then the process of labelling a claim as "false" is questionable and not black and white. You're blindly speculating and casting aspersions yourself, and in the process furthering a mentality that prevents victims coming forward. Just as bad as blindly labelling the players guilty in my eyes.

No, I'm offering a different perspective which focuses on the principle of innocent until proven guilty instead of being too scared to stand up for the accused's rights in fear of preventing victims coming forward.

Like with most things in Australia these days, things have gone too far the other way. If you dare say something that the vocal left disagree with, watch the hypocrisy in the way they shoot the person down for having an opinion and hound and bully them into submission.

 

[Snell1234]

Most people in this thread are not hanging the alleged players out to dry. There has been the odd poster doing that and the main instigator of that has been banned.

You must know a lot of sexual assault cases if you know of "numerous instances" of false claims, seeing as an estimated 2 percent of claims are purported to be false, and even then the process of labelling a claim as "false" is questionable and not black and white. You're blindly speculating and casting aspersions yourself, and in the process furthering a mentality that prevents victims coming forward. Just as bad as blindly labelling the players guilty in my eyes.

I know of 2 cases in country towns where a girl has accused a guy of raping them, only to withdraw it months later as being false or for it to be proven to be false. Both girls did it out of fear of judgement and because they had a boyfriend at the time.

It ruined both guy's lives. Especially in a country town where everyone knows everyone and things like this travel like wild fire.

 

[RICHOLEGEND12]

No, I'm offering a different perspective which focuses on the principle of innocent until proven guilty instead of being too scared to stand up for the accused's rights in fear of preventing victims coming forward.

Like with most things in Australia these days, things have gone too far the other way. If you dare say something that the vocal left disagree with, watch the hypocrisy in the way they shoot the person down for having an opinion and hound and bully them into submission.

I agree, innocent until proven guilty and agree with accused's rights. But that's not what you're doing, your speculating on the character of the girl and providing other random anecdotal evidence to support it. "Just say a girl goes home with two players and cheats on her boyfriend.. etc" and then "There are numerous instances that I know of where a girl has cried rape due to sleeping with a guy she shouldn't have... etc". That would be like me saying "just say a player slips a substance in a girls drink as he's not having much luck". Which would be a pathetic thing to say.

Never been a part of the vocal left and never will be. If I keep arguing with you this thread will be ruin, so I'll agree to disagree.

I know of 2 cases in country towns where a girl has accused a guy of raping them, only to withdraw it months later as being false or for it to be proven to be false. Both girls did it out of fear of judgement and because they had a boyfriend at the time.

It ruined both guy's lives. Especially in a country town where everyone knows everyone and things like this travel like wild fire.

Likewise, except the victim did not come forward because of fear of judgement. It goes both ways. I think there is a significant amount of this things that are not reported compared to false allegations made.

 

[Hank Heavenly]

Someone PM me alleged names please

 

[landie1]

You reckon the US police helped cover up a crime to protect some people who are moderately famous in another country?

Or is the more likely scenario that the claim simply didnt have enough evidence to back it up, therefore we should assume that the alleged wrong-doers are in fact innocent?

In the link I posted earlier, the 1999 case in Hawaii is referred to:
https://www.clearinghouseforsport.g...55140/Towards_Champions_-_appendices_2005.pdf.
Go to appendix 6, allegation 5 to the section 'Physical evidence consistent with sexual assault' with details that she had bruises all over her body, including a large bruise to her left thigh. She has medical tests which are inconclusive because of the delay in reporting. In the section labelled Social Factors, it says that <quote> "The woman claims that she was drugged through a spiked drink. When the woman was sick, a club official offered to take her to his room, she thought so she could clean up. Semi-conscious, she awoke to being sexually assaulted by a club official, then later, two other players. The woman claimed that she may have been r*ped by other players."<quoting directly from this document which details historical sexual assault allegations up to 2005, in detail involving NRL and AFL clubs>


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[boognish23]

I know of 2 cases in country towns where a girl has accused a guy of raping them, only to withdraw it months later as being false or for it to be proven to be false. Both girls did it out of fear of judgement and because they had a boyfriend at the time.

It ruined both guy's lives. Especially in a country town where everyone knows everyone and things like this travel like wild fire.

It's important to wait for all the facts to come out before judging the Hawthorn players and the girl involved.

I had a mate a few years back have a girl claim rape, ruined friendships as the girl was another mates friend, a few weeks later she apologised and say that it was false, that her friends shamed her and made her feel horrible for sleeping with him.

We don't know the facts yet, so no need to judge the girl or the guys involved

 

[HairyO]

In the link I posted earlier, the 1999 case in Hawaii is referred to:
https://www.clearinghouseforsport.g...55140/Towards_Champions_-_appendices_2005.pdf.
Go to appendix 6, allegation 5 to the section 'Physical evidence consistent with sexual assault' with details that she had bruises all over her body, including a large bruise to her left thigh. The US police couldn't take specimens because of the time lapse. In the section labelled Social Factors, it says that <quote> "The woman claims that she was drugged through a spiked drink. When the woman was sick, a club official offered to take her to his room, she thought so she could clean up. Semi-conscious, she awoke to being sexually assaulted by a club official, then later, two other players. The woman claimed that she may have been r*ped by other players."<quoting directly from this document which details historical sexual assault allegations up to 2005, in detail involving NRL and AFL clubs>


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Well, that link isnt a source document, its an amalgamation of alleged sources and we really do not have any way to know just how reliable it is. The fact that it was put together by a group who are wanting to bring to light something we can hardly call them neutral.

As I said, US police would not care less about some moderately famous people from another country. The odds of the lead investigator being a supporter of the club in question is obviously far less than what happened with St Kilda (or whatever that ended up being where the initial investigation was handled so badly).

And it appears that the girl decided herself not to proceed.

That said, there have been rumours of brown paper bags filled with cash being a way clubs dealt with these things so who really knows. All we do know is that without even charges being laid, we should not be implying guilt.

 

[landie1]

Well, that link isnt a source document, its an amalgamation of alleged sources and we really do not have any way to know just how reliable it is. The fact that it was put together by a group who are wanting to bring to light something we can hardly call them neutral.

I think it is important not to be dismissive but to acknowledge that there is obviously a problem to be addressed.

As I said, US police would not care less about some moderately famous people from another country. The odds of the lead investigator being a supporter of the club in question is obviously far less than what happened with St Kilda (or whatever that ended up being where the initial investigation was handled so badly).

And it appears that the girl decided herself not to proceed.

She might not have proceeded because of the time lapse with medical specimen or perhaps being told that it would be too hard to successfully prosecute a case (we can only speculate here) but I find it interesting that the lady concerned persisted with her story and it was in The Australian (article by P. Murphy) in 2004 under the headline of I WAS DRUGGED. She obviously believes that this did happen and held to that belief.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[gavaniacono]

I'm shocked (hyperbole intended) at so much baseless speculation. I'm going back to work, awaiting official information. There may well be no charges to answer. Wouldn't that annoy some people.

 

[BIRDBRAIN]

Reminds me of how my husband's attitude changed once I gave birth to our daughter. Now she is 19 and he realises that he wouldn't want her to go out with blokes who were like him once. The perpetual double standard.

Have your daughter PM me

 

[the PILL]

Have your daughter PM me

real funny dude...

 

[landie1]

Have your daughter PM me

Hahaha <glad to see your wink there>

My hubby also said to daughter, jokingly, that when any young men called by to take her out, he would stand at the front door with a loaded shotgun. Somehow don't think that any half-pissed louts with home-boy pants will grace our doorstep.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk