Scandal Hawthorn player questioned over sexual offence allegation

[HairyO]

Hawks fans: Don't jump to conclusions.

Nek Minnit

Let's assume the woman was lying, made it all up, charge her.

Woman accuses man of rape. Police say "nope, not rape".

Its not unfair to then question why the woman made the accusation? Question whether the police should now move on to investigate the accusation?

Or do you get to accuse anyone of anything without fear of being held accountable?

 

[Badesumofu]

I think we all need to hold our horses before we talk about charging women who make allegations that are not ultimately proven. The players have been cleared, but there is no suggestion I can see that a false report was made.

But quite simply, the problem of rapes going unreported is a far, far bigger problem than rapes being falsely reported. It's not even comparable. We need to be encouraging people to come forward and making that as easy as possible, not putting the idea out that they will be charged if their allegation is not proven.

 

[JackOutback]

Woman accuses man of rape. Police say "nope, not rape".

Its not unfair to then question why the woman made the accusation? Question whether the police should now move on to investigate the accusation?

Or do you get to accuse anyone of anything without fear of being held accountable?

No, the police did not say "nope, not rape". They said charges would not be laid. There is a world of difference.

 

[Donners]

Woman accuses man of rape. Police say "nope, not rape".

Its not unfair to then question why the woman made the accusation? Question whether the police should now move on to investigate the accusation?

Or do you get to accuse anyone of anything without fear of being held accountable?

No, police say, "Not a reasonable prospect of being proven beyond reasonable doubt", allowing for the presumption of innocence and the burden and standard of proof.

That is different to objectively finding on the evidence that it was not a rape.

If that was what it took for a matter to not proceed, then there would be many hundreds more prosecutions per year in Victoria alone.

Without knowing the basis for their decision, you are making an assumption which does not have a basis.

 

[Jaeger]

Anticipated this news, just took longer than I thought.

Good news.

No need for the thread anymore I would have thought.

 

[Bardo State]

Woman accuses man of rape. Police say "nope, not rape".

Its not unfair to then question why the woman made the accusation? Question whether the police should now move on to investigate the accusation?

Or do you get to accuse anyone of anything without fear of being held accountable?

Rape and sexual assault charges are very hard to prosecute. The vast, vast majority of rapes do not result in the perpetrator being punished in any way. There is already a lot of shame surrounding people who were assaulted coming forward due to people like yourself who will pounce on anyone who didn't successfully get their rapist charged, calling them a liar amongst other horrible things.

None of us know what happened in this instance. The players were cleared and now everyone needs to try to move on with their lives.

 

[blaisee]

Looking forward to Rita panahi sinking her teeth into this one.

 

[jatz14]

Woman accuses man of rape. Police say "nope, not rape".

Its not unfair to then question why the woman made the accusation? Question whether the police should now move on to investigate the accusation?

Or do you get to accuse anyone of anything without fear of being held accountable?

So you beleive in the Muslim system? Where women making accusations of rape go to prison? It must be a good system, almost no rape in Muslim countries apparently.

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[cryptor]

So you beleive in the Muslim system? Where women making accusations of rape go to prison? It must be a good system, almost no rape in Muslim countries apparently.

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Way to put words in his mouth.

He's not saying that if rape charges aren't laid then automatically the accuser is guilty of fabrication.

He was saying that if the police investigation of the rape accusation concludes with no guilt then the public should have the right to question the validity of the claims and question as to whether or not the police should investigate the validity of those accusations.

I only agree in the event that there is zero evidence supporting the accusation and particularly if there is evidence that suggests the accusation is false.

If the above is the case here then simply having access to investigate her phone may reveal evidence of her state of mind (eg. Not drugged) or if there was consent (eg. Messages to girl friends telling them she's about to lay an AFL player, or between her and her boyfriend that suggest not all was as it seemed).

To reiterate, this wouldn't be in cases where there was some forms of evidence found and there just wasn't quite enough to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. This is where there is zero or contradictory evidence to support the claim and possibly even in addition to that there is a reasonable explanation for why the claims may have been fabricated (eg. She cheated on her boyfriend and he found out from one of her friends that she was seen leaving with the accused the night before).

 

[jatz14]

Way to put words in his mouth.

He's not saying that if rape charges aren't laid then automatically the accuser is guilty of fabrication.

He was saying that if the police investigation of the rape accusation concludes with no guilt then the public should have the right to question the validity of the claims and question as to whether or not the police should investigate the validity of those accusations.

I only agree in the event that there is zero evidence supporting the accusation and particularly if there is evidence that suggests the accusation is false.

If the above is the case here then simply having access to investigate her phone may reveal evidence of her state of mind (eg. Not drugged) or if there was consent (eg. Messages to girl friends telling them she's about to lay an AFL player, or between her and her boyfriend that suggest not all was as it seemed).

To reiterate, this wouldn't be in cases where there was some forms of evidence found and there just wasn't quite enough to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. This is where there is zero or contradictory evidence to support the claim and possibly even in addition to that there is a reasonable explanation for why the claims may have been fabricated (eg. She cheated on her boyfriend and he found out from one of her friends that she was seen leaving with the accused the night before).

It amounts to the same thing. Even proving there was in fact no rape doesn't make the accusation fake. It is possible to have a belief you were r*ped when you were not.

Women seeing other women investigated for faking rape accusations, even if those accusations go nowhere, is a powerful incentive to shut your mouth.

If you were r*ped, but the only witnesses are him and his mates, and they are saying it wasn't rape, she is just a **** (usually the crux of the defence).
If you make the accusation, you make it public, they will be probably be found innocent (it's he said she said), leaving people to be able to form the view that she consented, but then made up the accusation afterwards to cover her shame (the essence of the argument here). To be followed up by being interrogated by the police again about the same thing. Given the historical tendency of police to disbelieve rape accusations, there is a real possibility she ends up back in court defending herself again.

No sane women under these circumstances would have their rapist charged in the absence of overwhelming evidence.

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

 

[jatz14]

Way to put words in his mouth.

He's not saying that if rape charges aren't laid then automatically the accuser is guilty of fabrication.

He was saying that if the police investigation of the rape accusation concludes with no guilt then the public should have the right to question the validity of the claims and question as to whether or not the police should investigate the validity of those accusations.

I only agree in the event that there is zero evidence supporting the accusation and particularly if there is evidence that suggests the accusation is false.

If the above is the case here then simply having access to investigate her phone may reveal evidence of her state of mind (eg. Not drugged) or if there was consent (eg. Messages to girl friends telling them she's about to lay an AFL player, or between her and her boyfriend that suggest not all was as it seemed).

To reiterate, this wouldn't be in cases where there was some forms of evidence found and there just wasn't quite enough to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. This is where there is zero or contradictory evidence to support the claim and possibly even in addition to that there is a reasonable explanation for why the claims may have been fabricated (eg. She cheated on her boyfriend and he found out from one of her friends that she was seen leaving with the accused the night before).

Statements by the accused s friends that she consented would be evidence the rape didn't happen?

Remember, in these sorts or cases, the fact that sex occurred is not usually in dispute.

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[cryptor]

It amounts to the same thing. Even proving there was in fact no rape doesn't make the accusation fake. It is possible to have a belief you were r*ped when you were not.

Women seeing other women investigated for faking rape accusations, even if those accusations go nowhere, is a powerful incentive to shut your mouth.

If you were r*ped, but the only witnesses are him and his mates, and they are saying it wasn't rape, she is just a **** (usually the crux of the defence).
If you make the accusation, you make it public, they will be probably be found innocent (it's he said she said), leaving people to be able to form the view that she consented, but then made up the accusation afterwards to cover her shame (the essence of the argument here). To be followed up by being interrogated by the police again about the same thing. Given the historical tendency of police to disbelieve rape accusations, there is a real possibility she ends up back in court defending herself again.

No sane women under these circumstances would have their rapist charged in the absence of overwhelming evidence.

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

Statements by the accused s friends that she consented would be evidence the rape didn't happen?

Remember, in these sorts or cases, the fact that sex occurred is not usually in dispute.

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

It's a very difficult and complex issue and it's a very case by case thing.

I'd hate to think any woman (and I think of my female relatives and friends as I say this) would be afraid or discouraged from reporting their own rapes.

But as a society if we continue to push the line that you can't ever question the legitimacy of a rape accusation after a rape investigation concludes there was no rape or even when there is evidence that contradicts the validity of the claim (not saying that this is the case here) then what protection exists for innocent men who are falsely accused?

The names of these players are out there and can be found relatively easily with a quick Google search. This accusation will hang over their heads for the rest of their lives and despite not being charged there will be plenty of people who will doubt them now. And there is no recourse for them to ever really clear their names.

But like I said, this is a really complex issue and it's really a case by case thing.

 

[ChesterTreasure]

LOL. Crackers Keenan, Karl Langdon.... Did Glen Manton have nay comment?

No but Victorian Police just did !!!

 

[offtherails9]

No but Victorian Police just did !!!

Separate incident champa. Close thread.

 

[ChesterTreasure]

Separate incident champa. Close thread.

Same incident champ

 

[Faithful Hawk]

Same incident champ

No it's not champ read the article took place in January and alleged victim is male.
https://www.facebook.com/AFL/posts/10153666558911417

 

[ChesterTreasure]

No it's not champ read the article took place in January and alleged victim is male.
https://www.facebook.com/AFL/posts/10153666558911417

Exactly - my post was regarding an apparent assault (I am guessing on a male) which Crackers Keenan touched on;

"Bateman said: ↑
Brad Hardie alluded to another incident involving a Hawthorn premiership player that took place the night before last weeks game against the Wiggles.
He said more will come out during this week.
Does anyone know what he is alluding to?"

Chester Treasure said:
"Crackers Keenan touched on this in this weeks Inside Footy - but apparently happened a month ago.
Premiership Player / Empire Club, Narre Warren / Serious assault / Charges pending"

Nothing to do with the alleged and unproven assault on a Female following last years GF

 

[Faithful Hawk]

Exactly - my post was regarding an apparent assault (I am guessing on a male) which Crackers Keenan touched on;

"Bateman said: ↑
Brad Hardie alluded to another incident involving a Hawthorn premiership player that took place the night before last weeks game against the Wiggles.
He said more will come out during this week.
Does anyone know what he is alluding to?"

Chester Treasure said:
"Crackers Keenan touched on this in this weeks Inside Footy - but apparently happened a month ago.
Premiership Player / Empire Club, Narre Warren / Serious assault / Charges pending"

Nothing to do with the alleged and unproven assault on a Female following last years GF

Read the Thread Title has nothing to do with that alleged event as you have stated, might want to post this in a more relevant thread.

 

[ChesterTreasure]

Read the Thread Title has nothing to do with that alleged event as you have stated, might want to post this in a more relevant thread.

Please read page 76 of this thread and all will become clear.
I didn't divert the thread to the alleged assault charge, simply replied to someone else who did.
Cheers.

 

[Doss]

There's little reason for this to be open at the moment- the latest assault is a different case and with the lack of charges being brought down in this particular one, unless something changes there isn't really much more to discuss.