Scandal Hawthorn player questioned over sexual offence allegation

[Realtrublu]

"Right now we have a supposedly open case of an alleged rapist walking the streets some 6 months after an allegation has been made. Never mind they play for Hawthorn if there is a reasonable belief they are guilty I want them off the streets ASAP and preferably in prison for life or facing Capital Punishment. At the very least on remand facing trial." Quote

"Prison for life or...capital punishment". What a moronic, tabloidish, Derryn Hinch gross overstatement. Mate with such an unintelligent crushing punitive approach to punishment you should move to the Deep South in America. Go there and join the Ku Klux Klan! The USA is the home of oppressive jail sentences. Even the yanks are now beginning to realise that crushing prison terms are counter productive for society, victims and wrongdoers. What type of world would we be living in if your emotive vomit infected public policy???

 

[Mr Mediocracy]

So many people commenting who do not seem to understand the rule of law and that a proper investigation is required in fairness to both the victim and the suspect.

You also cannot compare this alleged case to that of the one mentioned in the Northern Suburbs. Completely different cases and circumstances.

 

[Donners]

Best post so far and captures the point being missed. Recently in Victoria there was a high profile case of a Rapist breaking into a Northern Suburbs home and allegedly raping a teenager as she slept. Naturally police investigated urgently and police set up information centres and acted earnestly to get this scum off the street. Lasted a week but all was done to apprehend the perpetrator as quickly as possible.

Not a remotely comparable scenario. There is a broad scale of rape offences. A person who commits a violent home invasion and rape is obviously higher priority for the sake of the community's safety. Also, the issue there was identifying the perpetrator; that is not an issue in this matter. Finally, that person made admissions, so it's not a brief which required the same level of preparation or scrutiny.

Right now we have a supposedly open case of an alleged rapist walking the streets some 6 months after an allegation has been made. Never mind they play for Hawthorn if there is a reasonable belief they are guilty I want them off the streets ASAP and preferably in prison for life or facing Capital Punishment. At the very least on remand facing trial.

You would be horrified to learn, I assume, that the vast majority of accused sex offenders - including those who have actually admitted committing such offences - are on bail and even often on summons rather than remanded. Not to mention those who are investigated for a lot longer than this matter.

As for the appropriate sentence, that would be a fine way to break the system completely. Baseline sentencing already gave us a taste of how badly artificially high sentences work.

The fact this has not happened yet tells me something very dodgy is going on/the allegations are not what they seem.

When you don't understand how things work, many things can seem strange which actually aren't especially remarkable at all.

As I've said, the only thing particularly odd about the timing is that its profile gives it some priority.

 

[Davo23]

Never mind they play for Hawthorn if there is a reasonable belief they are guilty I want them off the streets ASAP and preferably in prison for life or facing Capital Punishment. At the very least on remand facing trial.

LOL - do you know what these expressions actually mean?

Or maybe you get your education from the Herald Sun?

 

[Realtrublu]

LOL - do you know what these expressions actually mean?

Or maybe you get your education from the Herald Sun?

As I said in an earlier post in response to the emotive, fear mongering garbage written by that clown he ought to go to America and join the Ku Klux Klan.

With extreme, disordered and irrational views like that you begin to wonder who the real sociopath is!

 

[Davo23]

As I said in an earlier post in response to the emotive, fear mongering garbage written by that clown he ought to go to America and join the Ku Klux Klan.

With extreme, disordered and irrational views like that you begin to wonder who the real sociopath is!

He may like to support Donald Trump!

 

[Run n Spread]

LOL - do you know what these expressions actually mean?

Or maybe you get your education from the Herald Sun?

I do. Unless you think rapists who break into people's homes and attack teenagers are worthy of walking the streets? Or maybe I'm not part of a lynch mob of society? For all my faults for my education I thibk I can do a bit better than a Murdoch tabloid.

 

[Realtrublu]

I do. Unless you think rapists who break into people's homes and attack teenagers are worthy of walking the streets? Or maybe I'm not part of a lynch mob of society? For all my faults for my education I thibk I can do a bit better than a Murdoch tabloid.

You have demonstrated that you cannot do better than a Murdoch tabloid.
Seriously your comments about penalty and what should happen if there was a prima facie case were very troubling. We live in an educated, civilised first world society. This is not Russia or Zimbabwe! Your views about legal process and civil rights are very disturbing.

 

[Run n Spread]

You have demonstrated that you cannot do better than a Murdoch tabloid.
Seriously your comments about penalty and what should happen if there was a prima facie case were very troubling. We live in an educated, civilised first world society. This is not Russia or Zimbabwe! Your views about legal process and civil rights are very disturbing.

OK point taken but I do believe for the most serious of Rape offences a very harsh sanction should apply. Softer penalties have shown not to work. Is it sociopathic to want rapists off the street?

However I am well aware we are not Russia or Zimbabwe in the sense it "should" be very difficult to get a conviction in this country. Can't be bothered dragging out previous posts but I have been critical of many recent verdicts in the recent past which convictions were based on very very flimsy evidence.

 

[Run n Spread]

Not a remotely comparable scenario. There is a broad scale of rape offences. A person who commits a violent home invasion and rape is obviously higher priority for the sake of the community's safety. Also, the issue there was identifying the perpetrator; that is not an issue in this matter. Finally, that person made admissions, so it's not a brief which required the same level of preparation or scrutiny.


You would be horrified to learn, I assume, that the vast majority of accused sex offenders - including those who have actually admitted committing such offences - are on bail and even often on summons rather than remanded. Not to mention those who are investigated for a lot longer than this matter.
.

As there should be. Same as any offence (homicide included). I think a major problem with laws related to Sex Offences thou is there has tended to be a push to class all sex offenders in the one bracket. As in a teenager taking photos can be convicted of child sex offences and punished for life by been on a Registry alongside serial monsters. This actually makes it more difficult to adequately identify threats to society as too many people are caught in a net.

Just the bolded you would know better. Do you mean a broad scale of offences (i.e. Murder manslaughter, Culpable Homicide) or just a range of sentencing options based on precedent.

 

[HairyO]

Still nothing on the rumour ?

 

[cryptor]

As there should be. Same as any offence (homicide included). I think a major problem with laws related to Sex Offences thou is there has tended to be a push to class all sex offenders in the one bracket. As in a teenager taking photos can be convicted of child sex offences and punished for life by been on a Registry alongside serial monsters. This actually makes it more difficult to adequately identify threats to society as too many people are caught in a net.

Just the bolded you would know better. Do you mean a broad scale of offences (i.e. Murder manslaughter, Culpable Homicide) or just a range of sentencing options based on precedent.

You talk about the problem of the small fish being caught in the big net designed to catch the big fish... but you also want a person (or two) thrown into jail and in line for capital punishment based on probable guilt when as far as any of us know the only evidence is the accusation from the apparent victim.

I bet you'd change your tune pretty quickly if you were ever accused of rape and that was the procedure. Throwing you straight into jail indefinitely until we can gather the evidence to support the claim. And if we can't find enough to prove it but there's just enough that we feel like there's a reasonable chance you might have then we'll give you letal injection. It's for the good of society after all!

 

[Run n Spread]

You talk about the problem of the small fish being caught in the big net designed to catch the big fish... but you also want a person (or two) thrown into jail and in line for capital punishment based on probable guilt when as far as any of us know the only evidence is the accusation from the apparent victim.

I bet you'd change your tune pretty quickly if you were ever accused of rape and that was the procedure. Throwing you straight into jail indefinitely until we can gather the evidence to support the claim. And if we can't find enough to prove it but there's just enough that we feel like there's a reasonable chance you might have then we'll give you letal injection. It's for the good of society after all!

Undeniable guilt then for the worse cases sure.

My history on the Crime Board (I can't be bothered digging up year old posts) will show I have been in a minority opinion when I have argued against convictions in the past based on what I thought was very shaky evidence. You seem to have put words in my mouth based on your assumptions of what I think. Fact is if I were ever on a jury the case would want to be water tight given what has gone wrong in the past. However for serious sex offenders (pedophiles, serial rapists, murders etc) then yes the death penalty should be on the table.

I don't think anyone should be thrown in jail indefinitely. I didn't articulate well but was making a comparison (all be it a bad one) that this case was taking an inordinate amount of time to reach a conclusion one way or another and while fairness and procedure are paramount there surely has to be a reasonable level of urgency in investigating.

As to your other point being accused would be one of the worst things anyone could ever have happen to them. (Particularly if innocent). If I (God Forbid) was accused of something then yes I would want it resolved asap. Incidentally same goes the other way. A complainant would surely want the issue resolved asap also.

This is my last post here (unless something changes) as I've taken this way off course. In this case there would appear to be insufficient grounds for charges so as per the law I will just presume the players innocent unless something very compelling comes to light.

 

[Realtrublu]

As there should be. Same as any offence (homicide included). I think a major problem with laws related to Sex Offences thou is there has tended to be a push to class all sex offenders in the one bracket. As in a teenager taking photos can be convicted of child sex offences and punished for life by been on a Registry alongside serial monsters. This actually makes it more difficult to adequately identify threats to society as too many people are caught in a net.

Just the bolded you would know better. Do you mean a broad scale of offences (i.e. Murder manslaughter, Culpable Homicide) or just a range of sentencing options based on precedent.

I think he means that rapes vary in the nature and seriousness of the conduct that constitutes a particular rape. For example a female can be r*ped without a penis penetrating a vagina. Also,as I understand it, consensual sex with an underage person in a case where the alleged wrongdoer is just overage can amount to statutory rape. It follows then that penalties for rape will vary, as they should. For that reason alone your proposal that a person convicted of rape should be executed or imprisoned for life is totally inappropriate.

 

[Donners]

As there should be. Same as any offence (homicide included). I think a major problem with laws related to Sex Offences thou is there has tended to be a push to class all sex offenders in the one bracket. As in a teenager taking photos can be convicted of child sex offences and punished for life by been on a Registry alongside serial monsters. This actually makes it more difficult to adequately identify threats to society as too many people are caught in a net.

The Sex Offenders Registration Act is among the worst-written pieces of legislation in Victoria.

Recent reforms to the Crimes Act have attempted to address the issue of young people in a legal relationship taking and possessing photos of each other.

Also, young people are usually not prosecuted for such matters on public interest grounds.

Incidentally, only matters involving child victims automatically result in registration. Most rapists are never registered.

Just the bolded you would know better. Do you mean a broad scale of offences (i.e. Murder manslaughter, Culpable Homicide) or just a range of sentencing options based on precedent.

Range of sentencing options. The charge itself is one of the broadest in terms of sentencing range for a charge; a single charge of rape attracts anything from from non-custodial to 10+ years imprisonment, with an average of around 5. Total effective sentences over the last few years range from non-custodial to over 24 years imprisonment, with an average of 7 years. The seriousness of an offence varies hugely.

Plus there is now the option for serious repeat offenders to be placed under supervision or even in detention after the expiry of their sentence.

There isn't a lot of room for alternative offences for rape of an adult - there isn't an aggravated rape or the like. Often, however, the facts are fudged for a plea - eg. a rape becomes assault with intent to rape or indecent assault. Pleas are often a legal fiction.

 

[Realtrublu]

The Sex Offenders Registration Act is among the worst-written pieces of legislation in Victoria.

Recent reforms to the Crimes Act have attempted to address the issue of young people in a legal relationship taking and possessing photos of each other.

Also, young people are usually not prosecuted for such matters on public interest grounds.

Incidentally, only matters involving child victims automatically result in registration. Most rapists are never registered.



Range of sentencing options. The charge itself is one of the broadest in terms of sentencing range for a charge; a single charge of rape attracts anything from from non-custodial to 10+ years imprisonment, with an average of around 5. Total effective sentences over the last few years range from non-custodial to over 24 years imprisonment, with an average of 7 years. The seriousness of an offence varies hugely.

Plus there is now the option for serious repeat offenders to be placed under supervision or even in detention after the expiry of their sentence.

There isn't a lot of room for alternative offences for rape of an adult - there isn't an aggravated rape or the like. Often, however, the facts are fudged for a plea - eg. a rape becomes assault with intent to rape or indecent assault. Pleas are often a legal fiction.

Donners you write very clearly and informatively. It is refreshing to see real (as distinct from artificial or ideological) facts, logic and reason, free of adjectives and hyperbole, used in a discussion about the law. You aren't a Crown Prosecutor, Magistrate or Judge are you? Lol.

 

[Wastedtalent]

Have they charged anyone yet?

 

[Donners]

Donners you write very clearly and informatively. It is refreshing to see real (as distinct from artificial or ideological) facts, logic and reason, free of adjectives and hyperbole, used in a discussion about the law.

Thank you. These discussions tend to attract misconceptions and misinformation, and I try to address that. It can be a frustrating experience, so it's good to hear that it's of value to some people at least!

You aren't a Crown Prosecutor, Magistrate or Judge are you? Lol.

Identifying a place of employment or role on social media is frowned upon by employers, lest personal comments there be interpreted as being endorsed by that employer. Suffice to say that I have spent over a decade working in criminal law, primarily in sex offence law.

 

[go_the_dockers]

More fun from the family club


Hawks star caught up in police probe
HAWTHORN premiership star Brad Hill has been entangled in a police investigation into an ugly nightclub confrontation. Hill and several other people are part of the probe into violence which broke out at a venue at Narre Warren in January.
awks star caught up in police probe
HAWTHORN premiership star Brad Hill has been entangled in a police investigation into an ugly nightclub confrontation. Hill and several other people are part of the probe into violence which broke out at a venue at Narre Warren in January.

 

[Wil79]

More fun from the family club

Pffft good on you chief. I'd worry about your own club.

 

[simba_]

What type of world would we be living in if your emotive vomit infected public policy???

well there would probably be less rapists walking around

 

[The Lemon]

Haha this guy just can't keep his hands to himself

 

[cryptor]

Haha this guy just can't keep his hands to himself

I must've missed the part where it said he was the perpetrator. Could have just been a witness.

 

[The Lemon]

I must've missed the part where it said he was the perpetrator. Could have just been a witness.

I hope you're right. I really do

 

[Goady138]

Haha this guy just can't keep his hands to himself

Let us know what has taken place.
All i am hearing is that its very minor on Hills part.