NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed. Part 3

[Wosh]

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NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

Process Plan - https://resources.afl.com.au/afl/do...erms-of-Reference-and-Process-Plan-FINAL-.pdf

AFL Ends Investigation - 'Imperfect resolution' as Hawks probe ends, no one charged

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[Dragz]

I have heard plenty of people say that word of all races including Indigenous people and it never occurred to me that it should not be used or that it was used in a racist manner.

I shall consider myself educated.

Local elders in an education session said they preferred Indigenous, but aboriginal was fine.
So, ask I guess.

 

[ferball]

Nobody is doubting that he is a volatile, angry ant who will run his mouth at any given opportunity and that you wouldn't want to turn your back on him if he had you in his sights. I think everyone can agree on that.

Yeah and if you end up in his sights from dog acts like Webster's then fair enough.

Frankly I'd rather have someone like him coaching my footy side than that clown we had for a decade in the 2010s.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Local elders in an education session said they preferred Indigenous, but aboriginal was fine.
So, ask I guess.

Most prefer Aboriginal but Indigenous is fine. Indigenous is more politically driven.

 

[South of the Yarra]

I have absolutely zero doubt that many Aboriginal people have and are experiencing inter-generational trauma and that it has profoundly negative effects on rates of incarceration and life expectancy.

The vexing question is how to alleviate these negative effects.

I heard a harrowing story yesterday involving a family friend (a woman in her eighties) who was staying in a motel in a small town in Northern NSW on her way home from visiting her son in QLD. At 5am a number of young Aboriginal men broke into her room, assaulted her (thankfully not seriously) and stole her bag and car. The police believe they are a group of men who were recently released from prison and were “on a rampage”.

Unfortunately it’s incidents like these that hardens attitudes.

We are so lucky in Australia that only Aboriginal boys commit these crimes.

 

[blackshadow]

We are so lucky in Australia that only Aboriginal boys commit these crimes.

Of course that’s not the case. I guess I was trying to highlight just how vexing the whole situation of race relations can be and how incidents like the one I described can make it harder to mend fences.

 

[JackOutback]

Of course that’s not the case. I guess I was trying to highlight just how vexing the whole situation of race relations can be and how incidents like the one I described can make it harder to mend fences.

If the attackers had been white, would that have ‘hardened your attitudes’ towards white people?

And let’s look at it from another angle, would having an intergenerational history and trauma make it harder for Aboriginal people to ‘mend fences’ with white peoples?

There is a tendency to expect Aboriginal people to change and offer the olive branch despite many in Australia being unable to accept that their population was the one offended against. And that many are still suffering the consequences of that offending.

 

[Rob R]

I have absolutely zero doubt that many Aboriginal people have and are experiencing inter-generational trauma and that it has profoundly negative effects on rates of incarceration and life expectancy.

The vexing question is how to alleviate these negative effects.

I heard a harrowing story yesterday involving a family friend (a woman in her eighties) who was staying in a motel in a small town in Northern NSW on her way home from visiting her son in QLD. At 5am a number of young Aboriginal men broke into her room, assaulted her (thankfully not seriously) and stole her bag and car. The police believe they are a group of men who were recently released from prison and were “on a rampage”.

Unfortunately it’s incidents like these that hardens attitudes.

Given those sort of crimes are happening everywhere with perpetrators from many backgrounds, it sounds a lot more like a youth crime problem rather than an indigenous crime problem.

On SM-A136B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[yodellinhank]

There is a tendency to expect Aboriginal people to change and offer the olive branch despite many in Australia being unable to accept that their population was the one offended against. And that many are still suffering the consequences of that offending.

Change? Have you ever been to a reconciliation event? It's been my experience that the Aboriginal community are actually the leaders in the whole reconciliation movement. It gives me a sense of both great shame (in my own people) and pride (of my country's indigenous people)

The olive branch is there, trust me. It's a matter of people willing to try to listen and come to a better understanding.

 

[western royboy]

I was fortunate in a past life to work with an aspect of Indigenous Business. Some aspects of that were an absolute shit show and it had all to do with Government Bureaucracy rather than the indigenous community.

In order to work in that area i was required to do cultural awareness training with the local indigenous mob. It would be one if the best things i have ever done. I think if it was available to more people our country would be in a better place.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

So lets look at Homicide.
More aboriginals are jailed for murder because they commit more murder.
Intergenerational trauma is recognized as a cause, but it can't be undone. How do you heal this?
Its not appropriate not to jail murderers.

Why law reform cannot be the only answer to Australia's domestic violence crisis

For decades, Australia has covered its ears to the screams and cries of Indigenous women killed by their partners. What if we used this moment to listen to some of their stories, and put their needs at the centre of the national response?

www.abc.net.au

Indigenous Australians and crime - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Given those sort of crimes are happening everywhere with perpetrators from many backgrounds, it sounds a lot more like a youth crime problem rather than an indigenous crime problem.

On SM-A136B using BigFooty.com mobile app

It is very disproportionate at some locations.

 

[western royboy]

So lets look at Homicide.
More aboriginals are jailed for murder because they commit more murder.
Intergenerational trauma is recognized as a cause, but it can't be undone. How do you heal this?
Its not appropriate not to jail murderers.

Why law reform cannot be the only answer to Australia's domestic violence crisis

For decades, Australia has covered its ears to the screams and cries of Indigenous women killed by their partners. What if we used this moment to listen to some of their stories, and put their needs at the centre of the national response?

www.abc.net.au

Indigenous Australians and crime - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Read up on “Closing the Gap”

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Read up on “Closing the Gap”

When the crime has happened its too late.

 

[western royboy]

When the crime has happened its too late.

You cannot change the past - only work on the future

 

[yodellinhank]

So lets look at Homicide.
More aboriginals are jailed for murder because they commit more murder.
Intergenerational trauma is recognized as a cause, but it can't be undone. How do you heal this?
Its not appropriate not to jail murderers.

Why law reform cannot be the only answer to Australia's domestic violence crisis

For decades, Australia has covered its ears to the screams and cries of Indigenous women killed by their partners. What if we used this moment to listen to some of their stories, and put their needs at the centre of the national response?

www.abc.net.au

Indigenous Australians and crime - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Yeah, I'm surprised it was even suggested.

 

[Dragz]

Most prefer Aboriginal but Indigenous is fine. Indigenous is more politically driven.

And that right there is part of modern society isn’t it? Everyone has the right to be addressed with what they want. And the ability to have outrage and to take offence if they aren’t.

In this case there are two words, that depending on individual and local history, can be polarising.

 

[South of the Yarra]

And that right there is part of modern society isn’t it? Everyone has the right to be addressed with what they want. And the ability to have outrage and to take offence if they aren’t.

In this case there are two words, that depending on individual and local history, can be polarising.

Neither Aboriginal or Indigenous is polarising. The word Aborigines is taboo and causes great divide.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

You cannot change the past - only work on the future

This is true, but it falls down when the events of the past are used to justify events in the present.

People got it wrong in the past, badly wrong, horrendously wrong.
We cant change that, we can only learn and do better, but if those wronged in the past use it to justify wrongs or attitudes in the present then we can never move forward.
It continues to influence attitudes in subsequent generations.
It feels like a self fullfilling prophecy, this happened in the past so its bound to happen in the future
No one ever gets to heal, just an ongoing cycle of misery.

Its got to be a mutual decision to apologise and seek forgiveness and to forgive.

 

[blackshadow]

If the attackers had been white, would that have ‘hardened your attitudes’ towards white people?

And let’s look at it from another angle, would having an intergenerational history and trauma make it harder for Aboriginal people to ‘mend fences’ with white peoples?

There is a tendency to expect Aboriginal people to change and offer the olive branch despite many in Australia being unable to accept that their population was the one offended against. And that many are still suffering the consequences of that offending.

My attitude is pretty open, my "hardening the attitude" was based on observations of how many in the community react.

I acknowledged that intergenerational history and trauma play a part.

My point is how vexing the issue of Aboriginal/white relations is and it's particularly prevalent in some smaller communities in regional Australia. I grew up in a small regional community and saw a lot of the issues up close - nowhere near as extreme as some parts of Australia though. I had Aboriginal friends growing up, I went to school with them, socialised with them, played sport with them, etc

I think most reasonable people recognise that white colonisation/settlement has had a profoundly negative effect on Aboriginal people and the sins of the past are still raw and causing pain and trauma.

Regarding the incident - it turns out the group of youths were 16 years old. It's sad that 16 year old kids are doing this shit, their lives are going to be even more messed up now and the lady who was attacked will be traumatised for the rest of their life. There are no winners in the situation.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

I think most reasonable people recognise that white colonisation/settlement has had a profoundly negative effect on Aboriginal people and the sins of the past are still raw and causing pain and trauma.

I dont think anyone would deny this but surely there have been positves too?

Things like access to healthcare would have increased life expectancy surely?