NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

[Wosh]

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NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

This is in no way a comment on Richmond.
The clubs have a lot of power over their players, new players especially, later picks, rookies even more so.

They literally have these guys careers in their hands and offers can be taken as ultimatums in that scenario. Clubs can use this to their advantage too in saying its not required (when everyone knows it really is)

Same as the comments about getting frozen out at the Hawks if you questioned the leaders.

People in power are very good at using the right words to keep themselves out of trouble if you only look at the surface.

I don't think any club would be immune from pressuring players in ways that we would think are well outside the realms of appropriate, its part of the reason why they want footy people on the panel and why the AFLCA is talking about footy being unique from other workplaces etc

this sort of s**t goes on in elite sports across the globe, the money involved and the win at all costs mentality means these players are seen as property of the clubs in a lot of ways

now when you have that kind of general attitude and you then add racism into the mix, some people are likely to be treated significantly worse than the average player because of that combination.

It looks like the AFL is going to go with the we do this to everyone and its about player development and life coaching etc

There's no problems at Richmond, we have our own Indigenous center, Indigenous support staff and we don't sterotype people.
We've supported Sydney Stack all the way through, we recruited Pickett when no one else would.
Bringing up Richmond on this thread, which is a leader on Indigenous issues, is just ridiculous.
Hawthorn and Collingwood have issues. Hawthorn under Clarkson was absolutely appalling.

 

[Blue1980]

Some posters in here, in particular some North and Hawthorn supporters, should be ashamed of themselves and are showing how disingenuous they really are.

How can anyone be so partisan to think of it only in their clubs interests?

It’s really weird.

 

[Blue1980]

You really need to understand the concept of victim blaming.

I'm trying to dissect the allegations individually and have been specifically trying to discuss those related to the social and living arrangement manipulations.

I've given you examples of where it's currently acceptable in the AFL for both first nations players and those from marginal backgrounds.

The abortion accusations are completely separate and are in no way defendable, if validated, as reiterated by Phil Egan.

How about this, if none of the other shit which has been written happened except the moving in with the footy development manager part, then none of the accused have anything to worry about.

It isn’t the issue so stop fixating on it.

 

[nineteen eighty]

Bloody lefties believing those uppity Aboriginal people!

And here's the kicker...I have never and will never vote right in my life! This doesn't smell right to me. I think there are convenient leaks with the intent of harming those in charge at the time.

And again, I'm not saying those things (or variations of) didn't happen. Due process is necessary before everyone grabs their pitchforks.

 

[Sphynx]

LDU, Tarryn Thomas, and the three Richmond players in transitional living arrangements or being told to pick their associates more wisely are in no way, shape or form comparable to what is alleged here. This is not in dispute.

I'm done with you if you're going personal.

I'm disputing it.

Those players circumstances are comparable to asking for a an abortion or asking to separate from your partner, I've never claimed that. That is indefensible.

But it can certainly provide some context for why the club might have thought they were acting in the players interests for them to move into a coaches house or to be limited in their use of the internet or mobile phones etc.

Are you incapable of discussing each of the allegations separately?

What about making a player live with a host family whilst their father is battling terminal cancer? Cross the line? Where's the line?

 

[Blue1980]

Would also add, if Richmond do get found to have wrongdoing in the past I fully expect the peoples responsible to be held to account, the same as any other club

Really don’t understand this whataboutism line of defence

Same with my club, be it a recent coach like Bolton or Teague or flag coaches like Parkin, if they were doing this shit it’s not on.

 

[gouki88]

I'm disputing it.

Those players circumstances are comparable to asking for a an abortion or asking to separate from your partner, I've never claimed that. That is indefensible.

But it can certainly provide some context for why the club might have thought they were acting in the players interests for them to move into a coaches house or to be limited in their use of the internet or mobile phones etc.

Are you incapable of discussing each of the allegations separately?

What about making a player live with a host family whilst their father is battling terminal cancer? Cross the line? Where's the line?

It is an overstep in each and all the instances you have listed. It should not be something a coach nor member of football staff does.

 

[Blue1980]

All some people are saying...including myself...is that all these senior Hawk personnel deserve the right of reply and due process before they are hung, drawn and quartered.

The allegations being made are very serious.

As for the assistant coach who has come forward, I am VERY skeptical about him. Very! Something about him that doesn't smell right.

Either way, due process is all anyone could ask for in these types of situations.

Of course that is true but some people here have heavily implied it’s a stitch up/witch hunt/disgruntled employees plus the new incinerating “all clubs do it” line of defence (to which if they all do it they should all be held equally accountable)

 

[Sphynx]

Of course that is true but some people here have heavily implied it’s a stitch up/witch hunt/disgruntled employees plus the new incinerating “all clubs do it” line of defence (to which if they all do it they should all be held equally accountable)

Which is my point, it's quite possible the entire system requires reform. If it is infact deemed a serious systemic issue.

 

[Blue1980]

Exactly. What's so difficult about that.

Some people have been completely brainwashed and watch too much of the ABC.

Umm wot? Are we to believe no due process is required?

Who thinks this?

 

[Sphynx]

Umm wot? Are we to believe no due process is required?

Who thinks this?

You are kidding right?

 

[Blue1980]

The stories are lies, the trauma is fake, the suicidal tendencies entirely made up.

Wake up sheeple!

I’m sure this is somehow linked to the world wide work conspiracy to keep down the whites.

Probably linked to fake covid and 5G.

 

[Blue1980]

Herald Sun and NewsCorp are also in on the leftist plot to destroy the proud reputations of upstanding white men.

Finally someone gets it. Damn Murdoch and his championing of indigenous people!

 

[Blue1980]

Don't worry I'm sure the North and Hawks fans in here will concoct a rebuttal as to why this development is nothing and we just have to wait for the "real" facts to come out.

And how they are shocked to be sitting here and when these said facts come out they will be in “a very good place”.

 

[Blue1980]

This is huge.

Think about this - why would a partner of player send an email in 2013 detailing her exact experience only to disclose it to a independent Hawthorn investigation in 2022 ? Furthermore, it was Hawthorn who initiated contact as part of this review not the partner/s & former players.

Sort of flies in the face of people saying that players/partners are only speaking up now.

 

[nineteen eighty]

Of course that is true but some people here have heavily implied it’s a stitch up/witch hunt/disgruntled employees plus the new incinerating “all clubs do it” line of defence (to which if they all do it they should all be held equally accountable)

I think it's a stich up the way it is being played out in the media. There are a number of allegations that need to be investigated as per the report. Instead of being investigated and the accused being given due process, it's now being played out in the media. Why is it being played out in the media?

I'm not saying those allegations are not true. Or a subset of. What I am saying is that the accused are being stitched up as this plays out in the media.

 

[Blue1980]

It's possible that after being delisted that player was hoping to get picked up by another team and didn't want to be seen as slamming the door on the way out so to speak.

I know last time I changed jobs I waited a month or so in my new position to start badmouthing my old employer to my new one. All good things to say prior to that.

Yes also a nice sentiment in the article for any prospective club to see.

We have also become more receptive to addressing concerns now than even back in 2011-12.

 

[gouki88]

Finally someone gets it. Damn Murdoch and his championing of indigenous people!

Typical bleeding heart Rupert

 

[Blue1980]

Also Newbold offering unnecessary comment on Adam Goodes being booed at a Hawthorn game:

"It's disappointing," he said. "I'm certain it's not racist. We have five indigenous boys on our list and three of them were playing that night."

Hawks missed a chance to stop Goodes boos

A series of unscheduled but high level conversations behind the glass at the MCG last Saturday night underlined the complexities around the booing of dual Brownlow Medallist Adam Goodes.

www.theage.com.au

“The two that weren’t playing had ankle bracelets on so we knew where they were”

 

[Blue1980]

It it only racist and inappropriate if those effected by it are unhappy?

Again you are miles off the point here.

Are you suggesting people could be evil in their intent but the Richmond players were happy?

Where are you going with this?

 

[Blue1980]

I'm not attacking anyone.

You said other examples are not an issue because those in question didn't have a personal issue with the treatment or their living arrangements.

That's beside the point isn't it?

Ffs how badly do you want Clarko as coach?

Living arrangements were never the point, you are just in the bargaining phase of grief.

 

[Sphynx]

Again you are miles off the point here.

Are you suggesting people could be evil in their intent but the Richmond players were happy?

Where are you going with this?

Are you suggesting the coaches were evil in their intent?

And yes, I am suggesting a persons willingness and/or happiness has nothing to do with whether what they are being subjected to is considered right or wrong. See Stockholm Syndrome as a basic example of it (not implying at all this is the case here)

 

[Blue1980]

So where do the AFLPA sit in all of this?

She spoke to the AFLPA psychologist who no doubt escalated this on the revelations from the partner?

What did the Police make of the welfare check request? Do they corroborate her version that he was a missing persons?

Well I think it’s obvious now, it’s everyone’s fault except Clarko’s.

 

[Sphynx]

Ffs how badly do you want Clarko as coach?

Living arrangements were never the point, you are just in the bargaining phase of grief.

I don't want him at all if the claims are validated.

 

[Sphynx]

Well I think it’s obvious now, it’s everyone’s fault except Clarko’s.

It seems to me you have made up your mind that it's only Clarkson's fault and he's already guilty of everything accused?

Did you read her emails?