NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

[Wosh]

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Videos, statements etc in the OP here:

NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

 

[Altum Volantes]

Why at 3pm have North still not said anything? This is really poor. They need to get a statement out at least.

They’ll drop something for the news to run surely?

Even a ‘the club is in continuing dialog with incoming senior coach Alastair Clarkson and will make further statements relating to this matter in due course’.

There you go media liaison guy, did your job for you.

 

[BlakeyNoFlakey]

I know we Geelong & Hawthorn supporters rarely get along or agree and share mutual hate. But today, I feel for all Hawks supporters. I could only imagine what it would be like if this happened at my club. I would be so devastated that men I have admired and respected and even loved for so long could do such terrible things. So, to all Hawks fans, we reach out as a footy community in a big hug today.

 

[rye]

LOL

At the people claiming the ABC shouldn't publish an article if they didn't first get comment from Clarko and Fagan.

You obviously didn't actually read the article and the part where they were both contacted for comment and declined to provide one.

they had not responded. they didnt decline to provide a comment

major difference between those two things

 

[citizen-erased]

Exactly.

This seems like a rug sweeping exercise.

The responses to racism have been largely cosmetic and it is clear player welfare is not a priority for some clubs or the AFL.

I keep harping but it always bothered me the way Demetriou handled Rendell.

rather than engage with him and understand what he was saying to treat the issue and provide more support/pathways, it hung Rendell out to dry and patted itself on the back. And here we are today.

 

[projectv]

No. These allegations weren't actually in the report

ABC reported and asked Fagan for comments (which he didn't respond)

Knew he'd have to step down and wanted to wait until Brisbane's season was over most likely.

 

[verypoorboy]

Why at 3pm have North still not said anything? This is really poor. They need to get a statement out at least.

Why be so quick to make a statement? Would be more poor of them to come to a hasty decision or public statement without knowing all the details.

 

[Altum Volantes]

You’re right it’s only their careers and professional reputations at stake, why do we need to hear from them.

Oh yeah of course.

It’s just a hard one to spin the other way isn’t it?

About as bad as it gets and tough to paint in a less than appalling light.

 

[Royce Hafey]

How would you know? How would anyone know what any of these people are like? I would never have pegged Fagan for participation in behaviour as deplorable as this, yet here we are.

I want all people associated with this to be investigated. That includes Hardwick. It includes coaches and staff at other clubs. It also includes people at Collingwood (Bolton & Wright). You can't afford to leave stones unturned because you like the bloke, or because he has been a godsend for your club.

The video I've linked above from the ABC (one of their reporters has actually interviewed the three players) makes it quite clear that there were three officials involved in the allegations and he names them: Clarkson, the then coach, Fagan, who was head of football and the player development manager Jason Birt? (not quite sure how to spell that as I got the name off the video). If anyone else had been involved, I'm sure they would have named - especially a serving senior coach.

Another point he makes in the video is that the players involved didn't initially want to raise these issues as there was significant trauma involved. This might also explain how it could be that senior players at Hawthorn, like Mitchell and Burgoyne may not have known about this, as the players may not have felt able to raise it with anyone. Which is why it's important to have dedicated indigenous welfare officers at all clubs.

 

[Yellow Feathers]

Why at 3pm have North still not said anything? This is really poor. They need to get a statement out at least.

Are you really that interested in what they have to say? It will be some generic statement that deflects any action until more info is known.

 

[irish]

He's a fraud. Fake nice guy. Angry little man. Piece of s**t.

really is that the best you have ? look closer to home for that discription

 

[projectv]

Why be so quick to make a statement? Would be more poor of them to come to a hasty decision or public statement without knowing all the details.

Fagan stepping down is damning on Clarkson and has kind of forced North's hand to do something.

 

[Sphynx]

Why at 3pm have North still not said anything? This is really poor. They need to get a statement out at least.

Because we have called a emergency board meeting this afternoon.

Fagan stepped down himself.

Clarkson isn't even our employee until Nov 1st.

Much more complex.

We might not legally be able to do anything apart from make a statement.

He's still technically Hawthorn's employee at the moment.

 

[Bombermania]

But Essenfon players were involved.

Unless spefic allegations against team mates are made, why punish the victims or current first nations athletes?

These allegations look club related and that is where the penalties should be imposed. In Essendon's case, the AFL imposed a number of penalties on the Essendon Football Club and that gives the AFL a precedent for what they should impose on Hawthorn.

 

[citizen-erased]

isn't a game. i'm more talking about Fagan and Clarkson as opposed to Hawthorn FC itself.

the process needs to be done to ascertain what happened and who was involved.

Point of my post was the fact that just because this wasn't related to on field, doesn't take away from the extreme seriousness of it.

Agree.

I just don't think the EFC doping sanctions have relevancy here, nor do I think punishing the hawks is the first point of order.

I hope Gil is serious about the investigation and the new CEO takes it as the most serious matter before them

 

[Anja_Nees]

In some ways some of the things described are what might happen in some kind of intervention of a bad relationship.

But that's not the job of a head coach, if it were the situation there's others who could be involved to deal with such a thing.

No, I agree entirely. If the player is in a fraught situation they should refer it on to people qualified to deal with it.

Reading the player/partner’s account alone makes it sound like an ethnic cleansing program though.

 

[SunshineBoy]

Are you referring to the Hawthorn review report or the ABC report? I agree it seems odd he wasn't spoken to as part of the Hawthorn report (if that is true), but he seems to have been contacted in connection with the ABC report. The Hawthorn review report will likely remain private, so we don't really know the details of what it says of Fagan's involvement. It is possible it didn't touch on Fagan's involvement, as the ABC report is based partly on direct interviews with some of the players involved and so may have details that were not disclosed to the people doing the Hawthorn review. The ABC are not just reporting on the Hawthorn review, they've done their own investigations too.

And they didn’t do it in a week

 

[jenny61_99]

Who says he was sitting on it?

They would have had to have their legal people go over everything with a fine tooth comb to ascertain the legal ramifications of such accusations before doing anything first.

Exactly. And of course they’d have rather waited til next week…

 

[BartBart]

Am I right to assume that the ABC article flushed the story out with the AFL trying to hide it until the deadtime after the Brownlow and Grand Final?

 

[Jim Prideaux]

The club has had this report for how long?

How long have the named people had to respond?

Their responses would presumably be contained in the independent review you’d hope. No doubt it (the independent review) will be released (you’d hope st least)

 

[Dave]

The problem for the AFL at the moment is while the rest of the world is doing diversity and inclusion, they’re actually heading the other way - it’s becoming more and more a league for white private school boys. The league is run by white private school boys. So are the clubs. Increasingly so are the players.

I’m not saying this is / was an intention at any point but that’s the way the league is going. It needs a wake up call, quick smart, and a way to properly engage people from all backgrounds at the elite level.

The growth and obsession with school football in Victoria is a part of it. Players are funnelled into it and the system largely recruits from there. I don’t know how they do it, but they need to look at how to get rid of those competitions and everybody playing in the club competitions (be it NAB League or whatever) that are totally merit based. The private school system is a bad nursery for a league like the AFL - it’s just so overwhelmingly white and privileged.

Wont happen. Too much money at stake for the schools. I know one local private school that targets footballers for scholarships and doesn't give a shit how they perform academically. All they care about is how well they football and how that translates into publicity and extra enrollments at $25K per year.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

LOL

At the people claiming the ABC shouldn't publish an article if they didn't first get comment from Clarko and Fagan.

You obviously didn't actually read the article and the part where they were both contacted for comment and declined to provide one.

That alone should be a indiciation of guilt any person who is being accused of such awful things would do a heck of a lot more than just "decline to make a comment"

Heck i remember Mike Sheanan mentioning how he lost Clarko as a friend because he published a article without contacting Clarko himself that he might be interested in the GWS job (circa ~2013)

 

[Blackhawk42]

The two things are completely different and call me biased if you want but coercing a player to end of the life of his unborn child to win a game of footy trumps anything Essendon did.

there are serious ramifications for everyone involved if this stuff turns out true.

I dont care if this relates to performance on the field. This is utterly unacceptable to be occurring in any form of workplace, no less than as unimportant as kicking a ball around.

I don't disagree with you.

Did you know I was very against banning the Essendon players? I felt they were mislead by people they trusted.

BUT, what they were accused of directly relates to on-field sanctions as a punishment. Those rules exist.

You cannot suggest current Hawthorn should be subjected to the same penalty for an allegation that took place almost a decade ago by 3 individuals no longer at the club.
Despite the emotion involved in this, why should Josh Ward, Jai Newcombe and Dylan Moore (as examples) be punished in any conceivable way?

 

[citizen-erased]

Why at 3pm have North still not said anything? This is really poor. They need to get a statement out at least.

can't believe im saying this, but let's give them a break for a bit.

talk about rug taken from underneath you, reckon Hood feels like the whole planet is gone from under her feet.

 

[Le Grille]

They’ll drop something for the news to run surely?

Even a ‘the club is in continuing dialog with incoming senior coach Alastair Clarkson and will make further statements relating to this matter in due course’.

There you go media liaison guy, did your job for you.

I believe there is a club wide meeting, assuming they are discussing internally first

 

[LeverPuller]

Are you referring to the Hawthorn review report or the ABC report? I agree it seems odd he wasn't spoken to as part of the Hawthorn report (if that is true), but he seems to have been contacted in connection with the ABC report. The Hawthorn review report will likely remain private, so we don't really know the details of what it says of Fagan's involvement. It is possible it didn't touch on Fagan's involvement, as the ABC report is based partly on direct interviews with some of the players involved and so may have details that were not disclosed to the people doing the Hawthorn review. The ABC are not just reporting on the Hawthorn review, they've done their own investigations too.

As a media/comms person, if the first Fagan has heard is the questions from the ABC and hasn’t been consulted by the Hawthorn review, then of course he would say that he hasn’t as part of a statement.

Worth factoring in how journalists act in the modern era in some of this stuff. The notice/contact to Fagan/Clarko was more likely than not to be yesterday circa 1600…they give as little notice as possible.

Fagan and Clarko will be worried about their contracts, legal ramifications and the review that’s going on. They won’t comment so as not to jeopardise, especially if they haven’t seen or covered the actual Hawthorn report and only the ABC questions.