NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

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NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

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Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

 

[Sphynx]

Am I right to assume that the ABC article flushed the story out with the AFL trying to hide it until the deadtime after the Brownlow and Grand Final?

No, the AFL got the report a week ago and referred it to the integrity unit immediately.


The ABC article seems to have flushed the report out of Hawthorn, who started welfare assistance after the ABC notified them of the impending release.

Around the same time Hawthorn started welfare assistance, they also gave the report to the AFL.

 

[nickh32]

Doesn’t have to be a sacking statement. Doesn’t matter if he doesn’t start until November 1. They held a press conference naming him the head coach.

The very least they should have done is saying we acknowledge the article/report and the club will make further comment when it is in a position to do so.

 

[hk89]

You have brought the game and the code into disrepute.

"Competitive Advantage" has absolutely nothing to do with it.

I'm expecting record fines and draft sanctions if proven correct. The fact you've seemingly tried to brush it under the rug should only increase the severity.

The fact your president back tracked in the press conference and confirmed they started offering welfare assistance to the victims only one week ago, should also confirm to you how complicit Hawthorn were in all of this.

I don't think SSSSSS is disagreeing with that Hawthorn deserve to be strongly sanctioned based on the evidence we have at the moment. However there isn't a lot of precedence for on-field sanctions from previous AFL actions. They've generally been reserved for situations that related directly to on-field matters, such as draft tampering, salary cap rorting, and drug cheating, all of which can boost on-field performance. Undermining the mental safety , relationships and family bonds of players is a horrible thing for a club to be doing, but it is hard to see how it gave us a leg up on the field, if anything it destroyed young talent they we'd have benefited from nurturing instead of alienating. I wouldn't be taking any punishment off the table if I was the AFL, but historically I think it will likely take the form of financial sanctions (and possibly personal sanctions for those involved) rather than something like taking away draft picks or ability to trade.

 

[jenny61_99]

Any thoughts on the timing of this? A week after the long-term TV rights were signed. Coincidence, or not?

AFL had the report during the negotiating period.

There will surely be a warranty in the TV rights contract about the AFL not knowing about anything that could damage the AFL brand in anyway at the time of contract execution. If they were sitting on this then Seven would have the right to terminate if they wanted to.

AFL have had the report for a week. Reckon the negotiations were long over.

 

[richoatthedisco]

really is that the best you have ? look closer to home for that discription

I'm tall. I'm chill. I'm a sweetheart. Nothing like me.

 

[jenny61_99]

So Fagan wasn't even spoken to/interviewed in this report.
Very ordinary to name people and not bother to even speak with them.

Fagan wasn’t spoken to in the Hawks review. But he was asked for comment to the specific allegations made to the ABC

 

[g_TRAIN]

they had not responded. they didnt decline to provide a comment

major difference between those two things

Not really.

It's not like they wouldn't have been aware of the request for comment.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

I don't disagree with you.

Did you know I was very against banning the Essendon players? I felt they were mislead by people they trusted.

BUT, what they were accused of directly relates to on-field sanctions as a punishment. Those rules exist.

You cannot suggest current Hawthorn should be subjected to the same penalty for an allegation that took place almost a decade ago by 3 individuals no longer at the club.
Despite the emotion involved in this, why should Josh Ward, Jai Newcombe and Dylan Moore (as examples) be punished in any conceivable way?

I dont think the exact same penalty should apply but the seriousness of any penalties should. Of course Hawthorn needs to be investigated and establish involvement if any.

This is an extreme governance failing anyway you slice and it has brought the game into disrepute. The club is responsible for that.

 

[BrisbaneBlue]

I think if proven correct Hawthorn as a club need to be punished in much the same way as Essendon did. Many of the key players are at other clubs but the success of the club at that time may have happened due to unethical and ruthless behaviour. They achieved success by behaviours that should not be encouraged which may have given them more revenue, premierships, etc. Therefore if proven correct and I have little doubt it will they should be subject to some of the same sanctions as other clubs such as fines (Essendon received these), draft (Essendon and Carlton have received these sanctions in the past) and suspensions (These may affect North and Brisbane, but could potentially impact Bulldogs (Beveridge), Saints (Ratten), or Richmond (Hardwick) amongst others such as Adam Yze. It must also be ascetained if staff at Hawthorn then modelled their behaviour at new clubs by what they learned at Hawthorn. There is a lot to play out here.

 

[HairyO]

That alone should be a indiciation of guilt any person who is being accused of such awful things would do a heck of a lot more than just "decline to make a comment"

Heck i remember Mike Sheanan mentioning how he lost Clarko as a friend because he published a article without contacting Clarko himself that he might be interested in the GWS job (circa ~2013)

You think the media should be in charge of running the investigations? Without knowing how much time they were given to respond, you have decided guilt because they didnt answer a journo's questions?

There is simply no way anyone would respond to these sorts of allegation publicly.

 

[Dave]

Work Safe Victoria?

Not sure if the Hawks/AFL is subject to the Fair Work Act.

Would be them. Was for Essendon at any rate.

 

[TubbsFarquhar]

I would be surprised if s**t like this isn't happening at every club.

Most clubs would have some skeletons in the Closet, but I would like to think it wouldn't be to this extent. This goes beyond racism, this is an outright humanitarian issue.

 

[hk89]

As a media/comms person, if the first Fagan has heard is the questions from the ABC and hasn’t been consulted by the Hawthorn review, then of course he would say that he hasn’t as part of a statement.

Worth factoring in how journalists act in the modern era in some of this stuff. The notice/contact to Fagan/Clarko was more likely than not to be yesterday circa 1600…they give as little notice as possible.

Fagan and Clarko will be worried about their contracts, legal ramifications and the review that’s going on. They won’t comment so as not to jeopardise, especially if they haven’t seen or covered the actual Hawthorn report and only the ABC questions.

Sure. The media outlets don't want to lose their exclusive by letting it leak out in time to be published by someone else, so give limited time to comment, and I understand that Clarko/Fagan might not feel it was in their best interest to comment in such a small window, but I was simply addressing a statement that claimed they were not given the right to comment before publication, which it seems they clearly were.

 

[Sphynx]

I don't disagree with you.

Did you know I was very against banning the Essendon players? I felt they were mislead by people they trusted.

BUT, what they were accused of directly relates to on-field sanctions as a punishment. Those rules exist.

You cannot suggest current Hawthorn should be subjected to the same penalty for an allegation that took place almost a decade ago by 3 individuals no longer at the club.
Despite the emotion involved in this, why should Josh Ward, Jai Newcombe and Dylan Moore (as examples) be punished in any conceivable way?

Why did Zac Merrett, Darcy Parish and Aaron Francis get punished when they weren't involved in the drugs scandal?

 

[SunshineBoy]

Am I right to assume that the ABC article flushed the story out with the AFL trying to hide it until the deadtime after the Brownlow and Grand Final?

Pretty close to the mark I reckon

 

[Blackhawk42]

Why did Darcy Parish and Aaron Francis get punished when they weren't involved in the drugs scandal?

Did they get suspended for a year despite not being at the club at the time?

 

[sr36]

So Fagan wasn't even spoken to/interviewed in this report.
Very ordinary to name people and not bother to even speak with them.

You've got the Hawthorn internal review mixed up with the ABC article. The ABC claim they asked detailed questions to the parties named in their article, but received no response. Fagan said that he wasn't interviewed during the Hawthorn review.

 

[LeverPuller]

I think if proven correct Hawthorn as a club need to be punished in much the same way as Essendon did. Many of the key players are at other clubs but the success of the club at that time may have happened due to unethical and ruthless behaviour. They achieved success by behaviours that should not be encouraged which may have given them more revenue, premierships, etc. Therefore if proven correct and I have little doubt it will they should be subject to some of the same sanctions as other clubs such as fines (Essendon received these), draft (Essendon and Carlton have received these sanctions in the past) and suspensions (These may affect North and Brisbane, but could potentially impact Bulldogs (Beveridge), Saints (Ratten), or Richmond (Hardwick) amongst others such as Adam Yze. It must also be ascetained if staff at Hawthorn then modelled their behaviour at new clubs by what they learned at Hawthorn. There is a lot to play out here.

Could be a shitload more than just those. Did the playing group know? Did the leadership group know? There’s Sam Mitchell and Roughead if so. Hodge’s media career.

The other interesting factor is Buddy. One of the storylines for Saturday…and then this drops. He will get asked.

 

[jenny61_99]

The report was recieved by the AFL in September correct. Only breaks today because revealed by the ABC. How different things might have been if the AFL had acted on this report immediately they had no choice as ABC went out with it. Would have affected finals to.How can you trust this organisation.

Looks at calendar. Ah yes… it’s still September. They’ve had it for a week according to Gil.

 

[geoffjennings79]

hawks and fagan denying

clarko still to speak

abc might want to get ready for a heavy law suit if they dont have those said emails

Do you seriously think Jackson and the ABC would go with this story, using multiple sources of the actual contents of the Hawks external investigation, without having their legal types run over the published article? Actually, I've seen your repeat posts, don't bother answering that.

 

[Saint12]

I would be very surprised if this was limited to just the Hawks and the individuals named. I think this is a perfect snapshot of how far Australia as a whole needs to improve on its treatment of Indigenous people. I wouldn't be surprised that if all clubs scratched beneath the surface more stories like these would rear its extremely ugly head. The allegations are extremely serious and Clarkson and Fagan (and anyone else involved) should be immediately stood down until the AFL complete their own investigation and if found guilty should be permanently banned from any involvement in AFL at any level.

I don't think it is fair to tarnish all other clubs and administrations with the same brush. Lets just look at the situation that we do know about ( allegedly ). To me this is a personality issue rather than a all clubs across the board issue.

 

[LeverPuller]

Sure. The media outlets don't want to lose their exclusive by letting it leak out in time to be published by someone else, so give limited time to comment, and I understand that Clarko/Fagan might not feel it was in their best interest to comment in such a small window, but I was simply addressing a statement that claimed they were not given the right to comment before publication, which it seems they clearly were.

Yeah but define ‘right to comment’. If you are given less than 12 hours to respond to a series of extremely detailed questions concerning what the players have said above, you can’t drop a response without at least getting pretty serious legal advice. I know why the journos do it, but they are typically pretty liberal with the idea of what constitutes the “right to comment”, particularly with extremely serious issues.

 

[JackOutback]

Racism doesn’t always work like that. It doesn’t have to be complete hate and exclusion, particularly nowadays. If a Blakfulla with exceptional talent is available, the modern AFL Coach isn’t stupid, he will draft him in the hope he will help him win a Premiership. His recruitment doesn’t mean Coach X holds no racist views, just that he is potentially willing to tolerate it if it helps him he successful. The idea that Coach X can’t be racist because he recruited a Blakfulla is completely wrong.


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Added to that, people may not believe they are racist towards Aboriginal people yet hold prejudices around aspects of their culture. Clarkson may well welcome Aboriginal players from what he considers a 'traditional family environment' while making assumptions about players from larger Aboriginal family groups.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

It certainly doesn't read well.

Is there any level of concern over a players wellbeing that justifies this type of interaction?

Say it's Dayle Garlett and they knew of his drug addiction? Is this not sound advice?

 

[Imet Hassa]

Probably already been said but - Very cult like. Separate from family and friends, listen to the Leader.
Hawks can freely expose all because to a large extent they are unaffected apart from reputation and maybe compensation.
North get screwed over.
Lions get screwed over.
From Dees perspective would want to have a chat to Yze.
Will the AFL Integrity Unit once again prove to be an oxymoron?