NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

[Wosh]

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NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

 

[Sphynx]

 

[PyrrhicVic]

Really? Other than finding a long history of systemic racism?

Do you not know your own club's history?

'Don't draft anyone with skin darker than mine': Explaining Hawthorn's messy past with Indigenous players

There are few Australian football clubs who could claim immunity from racially prejudiced pasts, but Hawthorn's history is scattered with dire examples of hurtful moments. Warning: This story contains racist images.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Zevon]

I really hope moving forward Hawthorn can remould themselves into a club that champions the rights of First Nations peoples and promotes a safe and healthy space for all supporters, staff and players of all backgrounds.

This is rock bottom for a club which has had a very shitty history with how it dealt with First Nations peoples. Can and must improve.

There are plenty of Hawthorn supporters who will likely walk away from the club but I hope plenty stick around to try and be the change that we need to be. Hopefully the board and the footy department follow suit.

This is one of the better takes I’ve seen today, well said.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Never said it did.

Didn't you? You said "we actually aren't as racist as people so desperately want to believe we are" and evidenced this with comparisons to other countries. You're saying our racism isn't that big a deal because of the racism of others.

 

[Sphynx]

And the majority of people involved were still at the club.

That isn't the case here.

It's very different.

You're just hoping your old rival is set back a decade on field so your supporter base can sink the boots in like ours (unfairly IMO) did to yours.

It shouldn't matter when it happened.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

And the majority of people involved were still at the club.

That isn't the case here.

It's very different.

You're just hoping your old rival is set back a decade on field so your supporter base can sink the boots in like ours (unfairly IMO) did to yours.

This has nothing to do with tribalism and frankly it is beyond my care about Hawthorns past success.

Your clubs coaches are being alleged of coercing a player to end his unborn child's life.

if you cant grasp the seriousness of this. Stop posting.

if Essendon FC needs to own what we did, Hawthorn FC needs to own what they did.

 

[Avalor]

What a horrific read! Clarko and Fagan should never head a club again. What about Norths now, and their indigenous lads? They would be aghast at reading that. This is 100% worse than the pies.
With Kennett at the helm, why am I not surprised.

Big story!

 

[bzparkes]

Didn't you? You said "we actually aren't as racist as people so desperately want to believe we are" and evidenced this with comparisons to other countries. You're saying our racism isn't that big a deal because of the racism of others.

That's a conclusion you drew yourself.

 

[Forward Press]

Collectively, the ABC have a worldview: an instinctive mistrust of any profit making industry

Yes, I personally prefer 7News and their gripping stories about the love life of the protagonist in Farmer Wants A Wife and their investigative piece on Megyn Markle's favourite handbags.

 

[Saint]

How could you do a report on indigenous people at Hawthorn and not interview Burgoyne?

That's easy, they knew all this stuff happened pre 2010, so the terms of reference were for 2010 onwards, or they just gave them the contact numbers they wanted them to call.

Honestly, if the review wasn't a complete sham and revealed all this information and they didn't push the nuclear button, then that's bad.

Or, the review was a sham, barely scratched the surface of any of this and was designed to sweep stuff under the carpet.

I think after the failure of the COllingwood and now Hawthorn "independent" investigations, we can do away with such charades as the cover-ups they're designed to be.

 

[Avalor]

Didn't you? You said "we actually aren't as racist as people so desperately want to believe we are" and evidenced this with comparisons to other countries. You're saying our racism isn't that big a deal because of the racism of others.

Unbelievable!

 

[Blackhawk42]

It shouldn't matter when it happened.

Quite literally, the alleged perpetrators aren't at the club anymore.

It sucks for your club. The timing could not be any worse.

What is gained by punishing a completely innocent group of people 10 years later when the incidents appear isolated to 3 individuals? It will be those individuals who should be anticipating the biggest sanctions.

 

[AvantGardener]

IF it did, and there is no indication of that, would it have had the same particular sociocultural impacts as for the Indigenous recruits? IF the investigation showed that Clarko had done the alleged Abortion demand on a non-Indigenous player and his partner, wouldn’t that have been reported as well? Of course it would have been. In fact, I doubt he would try anything to that extent with a white player full stop. Don’t try to gloss over the obvious underlining racist aspects of this horrible situation.


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Clarko is responsible for requesting it in the first place, but he isn't responsible for it affecting one person more than another. That bet about the white player I would taken given what is already known publically that he requested players to do and his one track mindedness. Regardless so many IFs it is sad the race card has been played at the drop of hat.

 

[Sassermon]

So why did he sit on it given the gravity of the issue? He is a con man and a liar and his next job is the ceo of a betting company

It's not his responsibility to run screaming to the press the moment it hits his desk, it's his responsibility to make sure its thoroughly investigated and actioned. Im not saying he's a great guy or a bad guy in this, Im just saying that him knowing about this a week before it breaks doesnt mean he wasn't doing anything about it or that he's covering it up. This is such a serious issue that I would rather see a measured methodical approach over a face saving knee jerk reaction. This needs to be done right, we need to get this s**t out of our game and our culture

 

[MauroFogheri]

Yes, I personally prefer 7News and their gripping stories about the love life of the protagonist in Farmer Wants A Wife and their investigative piece on Megyn Markle's favourite handbags.

First three stories on 4pm 7news: This. The Bacchus Marsh accident. The ALP's rubbery tunnel numbers. No Markle. Sadly (she's hot):

 

[Stumpy Pete]

The AFL set the standard of punishment for bringing the game into disrepute back in 2013 with Essendon.

Essendon were fined 2 million dollars
Essendon was ruled ineligible to compete in the 2013 AFL Finals Series
Essendon was prohibited from exercising draft picks in two drafts
Senior Coach suspended for 12 months
Football Operations Manager suspended for four months
Assistant Coach fined $30,000.00

Once the AFL investigation is completed, if Hawthorn are found to have brought the game into disrepute, what will the punishment be?

This is a very good question. At that stage of things there were no findings in relation to the use of prohibited/non-permitted substances. Those penalties were purely about the culture/behaviour at the club.

So the Hawks could very well face some big penalties as a club and the impact on the current players and administration should be of little, if any, consideration.

The other thing that will matter here is the timing. On the Essendon issue I know the AFL were under pressure to get them out of the finals series but going early have the few of the players bans being a second punishment for the same crime. I get the “justice delayed is justice denied” argument and that may be pertinent here - this is why I think the AFL need to get the timing spot on.

Regards

S. Pete

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Just sick of the narrative that we're some incredibly racist country when we aren't even remotely as bad as the vast majority of the rest of the world.

If we're going to play that game, most of those countries aren't built on stealing land from their original inhabitants, massacring them and taking away their children. And if they are (like for example, Japan with the Ainu), then maybe you could bring that up on a day we're not focusing on racism against Aboriginal people.

 

[Blackhawk42]

This has nothing to do with tribalism and frankly it is beyond my care about Hawthorns past success.

Your clubs coaches are being alleged of coercing a player to end his unborn child's life.

if you cant grasp the seriousness of this. Stop posting.

if Essendon FC needs to own what we did, Hawthorn FC needs to own what they did.

FORMER coaches.

Essendons indiscretions became apparent when those involved were still in charge.

If these alleged incidents happened 2 years ago and Clarkson was still coaching I wouldn't be disputing anything.

 

[Schneebly11]

Collectively, the ABC have a worldview: an instinctive mistrust of any profit making industry

So why do they have so much reporting on sports and AFL in particular, sometimes along up 1/3rd of a news broadcast. Strange if they don’t want to promote this “profit making industry”?

 

[Dave]

The players were banned under anti-doping rules were they not?

Even if you believe they were completely innocent and let down by their club, the on-field sanctions involved for performance enhancers being involved is well known and accepted.

This situation looks like 3 individuals acting very inappropriately to specific indigenous players on a welfare front. Horrific. But where does a draft sanction (as an example) come into the equation as a punishment?

The club had draft pick penalties applied before this occurred, as punishment for bringing the game into disrepute due to "governance failings". The AFL never found the club guilty of systemic on field cheating, so your assertion that these penalties could not be applied to Hawthorn as there is no precedent is incorrect.

 

[Saltiga]

Hawthorn got their 4 flags and the perpetrators are at other clubs now so all good to do a review and release the findings.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

FORMER coaches.

Essendons indiscretions became apparent when those involved were still in charge.

If these alleged incidents happened 2 years ago and Clarkson was still coaching I wouldn't be disputing anything.

Again,

Essendon were punished years after the saga actually occurred. 4 to be factual.

I'm sorry, but Hawthorn FC need to own this. not pass the buck.

 

[Corn Cobbers]

Perhaps you do if it didn't happen.

Then you'd just say "it didn't happen" surely?

 

[Rusty Brookes]

Taking a slightly different approach, are AFL clubs required to record any "sensitive" discussion they have with a player? I know at my workplace, HR would be all over making sure that such a discussion is recorded properly. Furthermore, are AFL clubs required to have an Indigenous liaison present when having these discussions with a First Nations player?

 

[Soapy V]

How is that the same. Didn't Milligan lose a defamation case for personal tweets she made?

Among several others