NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

[Wosh]

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread.
Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the report button, please and thank you.

If you feel upset or need to talk you can call either Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 or Lifeline on 13 11 14 at any time.

- Crisis support for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders 13YARN (13 92 76) 13YARN - Call 13 92 76 | 24 /7

This is a serious topic, please treat it as such.

Videos, statements etc in the OP here:

NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

 

[greennick]

If Simpson was involved I want him gone. I hope they complete a comprehensive review on what went on at Hawthorn. And in fact, I want WC to do the same review as Hawthorn and Collingwood. I can't imagine we are perfect (though I hope any improvements required are minor).

On Pixel 6 Pro using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Walshawk]

Shameful day for Hawthorn. Heads must roll immediately.
They could wrap some if it up quickly by asking Clarko for the full story in the next week, whilst letting him know that if he lies or leaves anything out he faces a life ban. Which he should also get if this is even half true. He doesn't start at North until Nov 1, so can't be stood down. I feel for North fans.

 

[the hypnotoad]

Losing their jobs should be the least of their problems. I would hope those at the centre of the allegations have a good legal team

that was what i kept thinking, as i read on ... this is beyond football, this clearly is something that is still deeply hurting several individuals and families, where matters of life and death, literally (and i hate using that word), are involved
if true (and jackson is a ripper no reason to think it's not) this surely has very serious legal ramifications

 

[el_simo]

Shocking if true but I wouldn’t want to jump to any conclusions just yet.

 

[nobbyiscool]

This is so devastating. Couldn’t help but break down after Gil’s presser.

It’s cos these issues actually speak to identity. Footy is so intrinsically linked to the Australian identity. Connection to family and land is so linked to Indigenous identity.

And for all the decades of black-washing, for all of society-at-larges attempts to makes the Indigenous identity a bigger part of the Australian issues, cases like this show a complete dissonance.

We no longer get to feel good about how Australian Rules footy has involved First Nations people.

Collingwood was bad enough with its shitty attitudes already more than enough to cause significant trauma to people. This is another level altogether. How do you not think that you’re screwing people up?

Also, most of this thread is demonstrating maturity beyond what I thought BF was capable of. But some of the whataboutism is an embarrassment to those posters.

 

[Gough]

BBC reporting it.

Hawthorn Football Club hit by 'harrowing' racism, bullying claims

Aboriginal players from The Hawthorn Football Club have alleged bullying by senior coaching staff.

www.bbc.com

 

[Boxhead_31]

Not one club should be gloating over this, not one.

The AFL needs to have an external review totally independent of the AFL carried out on all clubs and then have another independent panel implement any and all findings discovered with the full AFL backing. If those findings recommend people are sacked then so be it and the AFL needs to ensure that every recommendation is carried out.

Until this is done there will be a dark cloud over all of the AFL.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

Hardwick

No, the only complaints were against Clarkson, Fagan and Burt.
Hardwick recruited Pickett, Stack and Parker . Don't put him in the same boat as those other 3.

 

[Bob Neil]

You look at this scandal and then more broadly at our sport and it's hard not to see a code that has lost its way and lost the connection to what sport is truly meant to mean.

• Institutionalised racism, sexism and mysogny over decades in all clubs
• Clubs pressuring players and their partners to terminate a pregnancy for the sake of 'furthering their career'
• Wall-to-wall gambling content plastered across our broadcasts and thrust into the consciousness of impressionable kids and vulnerable adults
• A grand final - the supposed culmination of everything our sport stands for - that will be largely attended by members of the 'football-industrial complex' with humble fans condemned to never be able to experience that one day in September for themselves
• Clubs pressuring players to participate in systematic doping to find that extra edge on the competition

I understand that it's a modern world and sport is big business but the AFL - who effectively took for themselves the role as 'custodians' of the game (not just administrators of a league) - are culpable in failing to uphold the values of the game.

Very hard to explain this to a footy-loving 11 year old when each of these episodes inevitably happens.

 

[db26]

Quite simply fagan and Clarkson must be stood down.
They cannot continue in their roles until this is investigated .
Let’s see how the AFL boys club try’s to spin this

Spot on through watch them sweep it under the carpet both afl coaches darling childs untouchable pathetic have they got the guts or as usual sweep it.

 

[Sphynx]

Coming a bit late to this today. Have ex players, namely the leadership groups during that period of time, been called out as knowingly turning a blind eye?

I made this point earlier.

This surely implicates the likes of Hodge, Mitchell, Burgoyne, Gibson, Roughead and possibly even Franklin (depending on how far back it goes) etc if they let a systemically racist system go unchallenged and enforced amongst the younger playing group they were the senior leaders of.

The accusations are that this was systemic amongst amongst the younger playing group of Hawthorn at a point.

 

[the hypnotoad]

This is some absolutely cooked s**t.

Psychotic, manipulative, treat players like cattle s**t.

Sad to read. Imagine having your life turned on its head while chasing your dream because you end up at a club with people who operate like this?

If proven, turf them from the AFL and don't look back. I don't have much faith that the boys club is capable of this though.

it's like some tragic account of life in this country 100 years ago

 

[toomuch]

There are 2 sides on how a conversation went down. And trying to help people get away from bad influences even if that is family, doesn't make it a racist view regardless of your colour.

When you consider the Stolen Generation it very much does

 

[Goosecat]

The feeling is that young Indigenous players, especially from remote commmnities, have very little maturity and self control and need to be mentored to a far greater extent than young white players as it’s view indigenous kids will “go off the rails” far easier than white kids.

So people like Clarko decide they’ll be getting involved in their lives far more so than a young white player.

It’s pretty much the stolen generation in the 21st century. Whites believe they know how to raise indigenous kids better than their own parents or families.

I think it's a little more nuanced than that. Plenty of indigenous leaders themselves state there are unique challenges in this area and greater support, programs, assistance and money is required at all levels; club and AFL consequently.

It's quite possible that in their own minds the individuals thought they were at all times trying to get the best outcome for both the club and the players involved, effectively killing two birds with one stone. I'm sure in fact that this will be the "line" trotted out. Something along the lines of all members of the Hawks family/playing group are people who have life challenges like everyone else. The club always tried to be open to, involved and concerned with player welfare. At all times the club and its leadership strove to achieve the best outcomes for everyone involved to the best of their abilities. If there have been failings or resultant undesirable outcomes for any; that is deeply regrettable but most certainly never the intent. We apologise to any whom feel we let them down or fell short in some of our efforts. We will wrap our arms around any seeking clarification/support and continue to grow and learn as an organisation. etc etc.

Having said all that; there is obviously an "impression" on at least some people directly involved and much of the public that there is a deeper racist element to some club leaders actions. Just like everyone else it feels to me like there was a psychology at play at leadership level that morphed from assisting indigenous players with some of their unique challenges into trying to "eradicate" certain elements entirely. There appears to have been some serious overstepping of lines by quite a margin in order to obtain the "ultimate" success.

I actually find it interesting that Clarko took the North job period, past connections or otherwise. Having made it clear earlier he was not interested in going to a club requiring rebuilding and was more interested in a club nearing premiership success,or in his own words "to win it all". He then rather suddenly pivots to Nth, the exact opposite of that reality.
How do you ensure you are not isolated and scapegoated regarding any upcoming damning report, having now gained knowledge of some possible really damaging accusations being released and the repercussions that may follow? Make sure you're back in the AFL fold regardless of team, right now and gain the positives of again being part of the large team that will be defending the "AFL" reputation.

Just saying

 

[Rusty Brookes]

Thanks for your response.

I have highlighted that the actions of the current club in response to this will determine my response. It is critically important how they respond to this as an organisation. The allegations are beyond disturbing. Responsibility does not only rest with the individuals named but with the club more broadly as those individuals were representatives of the club at the time. Inaction or tokenistic responses without meaningful change would be extremely disappointing - significant, honest, real and considered action is needed to address real and significant issues that has (allegedly) victimised individuals in a terrible, terrible way.

I personally am not keen to financially support an organisation until they can demonstrate that the allegations are in no way part of how they currently function and can never happen again.

As I've noted I think that's fair enough. Personally, I'm remaining a member and hopefully, Hawks for Change (of which I was a member) gets running again. It's main focus was to break Kennett's hold on the club but the issue of the club's relationship with Indigenous players was brought up (without us knowing the full extent of how bad the issue was). One of the things the club needs to do now is listen to the members outrage and ensure that there is a true Indigenous presence at decision making levels. Let's face it - Indigenous players really haven't had a huge say at our club but it should be more than just the players anyway. Get Indigenous leaders to be involved and make it a better place.

First thing the club hopefully does is check in with the players and offer whatever support we can and then put in structures and governance so something like this never happens again.

 

[NMFCMUFC]

As a North fan whatever happens to Clarkson by way of punishment etc I will back, this is beyond club rivalries.

The AFL needs to get legit with how much it really cares, Indigenous Round is now a joke unless genuine reviews occur across the entire league, the sport.

 

[RichLeMonde]

Please reread my edited post. You're worse than I thought. You used a sexist racist stereotype to imagine a justifiable scenario. You stood in their shoes. You somewhat agree with those animals.

How is there anything moral about splitting up families and demanding abortions?

It is truly disheartening to see how pervasive racism is in a large section of the community.

Get a grip. You’re calling me a sexist racist bigot. You’re saying that I agree with those animals. You’re implying that I said there was something moral about their behaviour. You are name-calling and carrying on like a sanctimonious teenager.

You’re wilfully misrepresenting everything that I’ve said. I haven’t defended their actions. I haven’t said they were moral. I have sought to understand how something like this could have happened. I have pointed out that most people justify their own actions and believe their own behaviour is morally justified, and I have imagined a fairly plausible scenario. You say that imagined scenario makes me a sexist racist bigot.

Actually, I have drawn upon the empirical reality of the trauma and associated social problems that indigenous communities face, and acknowledged the historical basis for it. It may be psychologically more tolerable for you to imagine that the world is split into 2 camps - goodies like yourself, and evil moustache-twirling caricature villains like Clarko - but the reality is somewhat more complex. It doesn’t make me a villain and whatever names you want to call me for me to imagine a scenario where a) a young indigenous player was in a relationship that others perceived as toxic and b) that Clarko et al believed they were helping the player by coercing him into ending that relationship, including the termination of a pregnancy. That doesn’t mean that I think they were right to hold that belief or act on its basis.

If you are not able to separate that act of imagination on my part and what you think are my personal morals and beliefs and the sorts of actions that I would personally enact or endorse, then that is entirely reflective of your own juvenile and simplistic way of viewing people and the world.

 

[St 07]

Clarkson and Fagan cannot be stood down until given a chance to give their perspective.

 

[gouki88]

No, the only complaints were against Clarkson, Fagan and Burt.
Hardwick recruited Pickett, Stack and Parker . Don't put him in the same boat as those other 3.

Hardwick wasn't named, but pointing to the recruitment of First Nations players is absolutely and utterly meaningless.

 

[gouki88]

Clarkson and Fagan cannot be stood down until given a chance to give their perspective.

They refused to comment

 

[Occidental]

The AFL and the industry behind it needs a complete shake down.
I’ve long harboured some serious misgivings about the increasingly paternalistic, elitist and less diverse world the AFL inhabits.
Scores of young boys as young as 15 are annually ‘spotted’ and recruited to elite Private Schools (the ones that have boarding facilities) and are immersed into the whole world of privilege that comes with it.
They leave their homes across the country to do this. Naturally the bigger the gap between your previous family life and the life of an elite private school boarding house creates the bigger issues.
Now those elite schools are littered with ex AFL players and other hangers on, who are coaches, advisors, assistants.
It’s an arms race between the elites to grab the best children and ‘provide them with the best of everything’.
It’s paternalism 1950’s style on steroids.
Where did Cyril go to school? Where did Jamarra go to school?
At 15 years of age in you go to the elite system they have created.
Everyone knows everyone, no diversity, full on paternalism and it starts when you are so young.
How could a kid from a struggling family speak up to anyone after being put through that sort of system?
Im not on a Private School bashing agenda necessarily.
But what I find egregious is the ever increasing concentration of power and influence into this one sector of society… this “boys club” if you will. The Boys Club you enter at 15 when you leave your family and begin living in it. No wonder some in the boys club think they have the right to still tell you how to run your own life, even when you have a partner and may become a father yourself. We had you at 15 and we still have you now.

 

[Chadwiko]

If Simpson was involved I want him gone.

Given Simpson's personal history on the topic, I would be genuinely shocked if he was involved with the allegations.

 

[Always Ballin]

One thing: why is Hawthorn obligated to pay for the relocation of a player's family? I don't see why the team should've paid that $10,000.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

No, the only complaints were against Clarkson, Fagan and Burt.
Hardwick recruited Pickett, Stack and Parker . Don't put him in the same boat as those other 3.

Agree it doesn’t look like Hardwick was involved based on the timelines in the article, but this is some of the dumbest logic I’ve ever seen.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

As a Blakfulla I’m just totally devastated by this news. Words cannot really express fully what this does to mob, it’s not just those directly involved but also affects all of us who carry the hurt of racism, it strikes us at our very core. Imagine living in a reality where your people are seen by some as sub-human, where it seems your only value is chasing pigskin around for the entertainment of mostly non-Aboriginal people. That leaders in a club in this day and age thought they could treat Indigenous players as slaves to the point where they could allegedly control their reproductive rights is simply insane and shows there is so much work to do across society to address the many issues that come into the light.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

I'm sorry.

On SM-G975F using BigFooty.com mobile app